2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS | Page 115 | Golden Skate

2018 US Championships Sr. Ladies FS

ExMaleSkater

Rinkside
Joined
Jan 6, 2018
Some call her a poor sport for publicly blasting the judges for holding her down to accomplish a goal. Why shouldn’t she? Should she just sit down and give lip service? Not on your life.


She should be a professional 26 year old woman who recognizes that she has benefited in the past when she didn't deserve her spot. Yes, she should be quiet and not take away from another persons evening. It's pathetic that someone of her stature is whining to the first camera in her face. Her skating was uninspired and she's been doing the same moves to different music for a couple years.
 

yoloaxel

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
Some call her a poor sport for publicly blasting the judges for holding her down to accomplish a goal. Why shouldn’t she? Should she just sit down and give lip service? Not on your life.

100% disagree. The judges aren’t the ones holding her down. She missed a triple and messed up another. This is the first showing of the program so she’s not gonna get the best PCS for Interpretation and performance, and her SS and transitions aren’t amazing.

130 with a missed triple is about as high as you can get unless you are Kostner.
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
You are kidding right? It was the ultimate PR nightmare. Twitter exploded. Some Asian reporters wrote articles about how racist it was. NBC has to switch up their coverage of opening and closing ceremonies. I noticed that in some shots they would name each of the skaters like Jason and Polina, but completely ignore Ashley’s existence. They were defending themselves for weeks. It was a horrible nightmare.

If I were USFS, I wouldn’t do this again. They have Bradie. Just focus on her and pivot. Otherwise the next three weeks will be all about poor little Karen and how evil USFS was to take away her dream.

Was it really that big? I guess I wasn't paying much attention to the domestic side after the announcement because Olympics was coming.
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Did we watch the same musical? Ellen was a very sympathetic character. In fact in the song "Now that I've seen her." She talks about how she never wanted this, doesn't hate Kim, but will fight for her husband. Unless refusing Kim's demand that she take Tam to America is what you mean? I actually think that song would make a pretty exhibition.

I was thinking about the song It's Her or Me. (Or in this case, It's Karen or Me.)

What was she doing? Letting her husband see his first wife. She will fight for her man. It's Karen or me. Something like that.
 

readernick

Medalist
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
She should be a professional 26 year old woman who recognizes that she has benefited in the past when she didn't deserve her spot. Yes, she should be quiet and not take away from another persons evening. It's pathetic that someone of her stature is whining to the first camera in her face. Her skating was uninspired and she's been doing the same moves to different music for a couple years.

She did deserve her spot in 2014. She had medaled at the GP final and was a legitimate threat for a medal. No revisionist history, please! Your other comments are just your opinion and you certainly have a right to them. I was uninspired by all the ladies today. But, Mirai and Bradie deserve to be on the team. Ashley and Karen??? I don't think either made a strong case. But, internationally Ashley is probably a wiser choice because if she fails on technical components she will still get PCS. Karen won't. Don't really care either way.
 

penniavaswen

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 15, 2017
Country
United-States
I watched the last two groups live. Enjoyed it, but overall the competition paled in comparison to Boston 2014, which I also attended.

- Honorable mention: Starr Andrews absolutely sparkled and gave an emotional, committed performance. I could tell that she really connected with her music. I think she's a talented singer and I think skating to her own version was gutsy and savvy -- but I have to say that in the arena, it sometimes sounded like a karaoke version. :slink: It was a bit strange when it switched to the Whitney Houston version. She got a huge standing ovation -- good for her for her clean performance.
- Mariah Bell - solid skate and I loved her guts, but her FS just wasn't the right vehicle. Really silly mistake on the 2A that ultimately didn't make a big difference.
- Ashley Wagner - I think the program has potential but there were a few moments where I found myself wondering if Ashley had forgotten or was ignoring her choreography. She appeared focused on her jumps and she did pay some attention to the performance, but overall, I wasn't greatly impressed by the technical or performance aspect. I don't agree with her placing higher in the FS than Karen Chen. She didn't have a meltdown and the audience was super happy about that, but I don't think she was wuzrubbed at all.
- Mirai Nagasu - had surprisingly good speed. Good for her for landing all her jumps. That 3A was very impressive live and she did land it perfectly in the warm-up. She didn't give up on the rest of the program even after the initial 3A wasn't perfect. Unfortunately, I did not care for the program at all. I found the choreography to be minimal and what was there barely reflected the music. The audience was really, really, really pulling for her -- but Mirai won't have that support in Korea. It was a great accomplishment for Mirai personally and I'm glad for her, but in terms of performance and program, I was left wanting much, much more.
- Angela Wang - she checked all the boxes for me in terms of musicality and interpretation...but something was still missing? Something intangible. Angela has a tough time connecting with audiences -- she doesn't project quite enough? Her mostly clean performance didn't get the reaction that I thought it should have.
- Karen Chen - she was committed to her choreography, performed to the music, projected to the audience, and gave a great performance overall. It wasn't perfect but her ceiling is higher than anyone else's. Nice edges and speed, and I'd have her first in PCS over all of the other ladies. Her lutzes are huge! Her spins were slower than usual and this performance wasn't her personal best, but she absolutely deserved to be on the podium, top 3, and she had better be going to Pyeongchang. For me, there is no question that Karen deserved to be ahead of Ashley Wagner and it shouldn't even have been that close.
- Bradie Tennell - nice jumps and it was refreshing to have a US lady who could nail all their jumps but I don't agree with her GOE and her PCS was absurd -- the choreography was awkwardly executed -- and some moments were just jarring, like the besti squat. :noshake: This performance doesn't compare to Gracie Gold's at 2014 US Nationals AT ALL (yes, even with Gracie's fall -- I stood for Gracie and it was an amazing performance) and I'd rank it behind Polina Edmund's 2014 performance there as well. She got a big standing O but the reaction to her score was not as unanimous -- I think some expected Mirai to win.

Wow this was pretty much my experience too. During the entirety of Ashley's performance, I was thinking to myself "this could have been cooked more to deserve this reaction" (I think I would have preferred Moulin Rouge).
I was little surprised when I checked the TES online while waiting for Bradie's scores (thanks GS), and all the people around me looked shocked when I told them that you guys said it was 78,
 

TCAngel18

Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
She should be a professional 26 year old woman who recognizes that she has benefited in the past when she didn't deserve her spot. Yes, she should be quiet and not take away from another persons evening. It's pathetic that someone of her stature is whining to the first camera in her face. Her skating was uninspired and she's been doing the same moves to different music for a couple years.

I assume you are talking about 2014, where she entered the comp as the reigning 2 time national champ, 3 time GPF medalist and 4th and 5th in the previous 2 world championships, had an off day, and was chosen to the team based upon her body of work over a skater who didn’t have even CLOSE to the results she had in the previous 3 years heading into those championships. That’s what I assume.

I assume you just don’t like it when someone stands up for their convictions, whilst recognizing both their faults and strengths, but tells it like it is. I assume you wanted Ashley to sit down, shut up and take it, like a cultured lady with class would. I assume you don’t like when a confident woman speaks her mind when she is being unfairly shown the door.

I assume you just don’t like Ashley Wagner. Funny thing, she is not even my favorite Female US skater. Funny thing, Mirai Nagasu is, and always has been. I just believe in fairness, and she got absolutely HOSED these Championships.

I assume that you are telling those international judges that they were wrong all these years, that her PCS meant nothing.

I know what assuming makes me. Like Ashley, I don’t care, and will speak up for what is right.
 

*~RussianBleux~*

Medalist
Joined
Oct 23, 2005
I really connect with Mirai, too. I wished she had won, too. But in the end, I do think USF picked the correct girl as the #1 heading into the game. I trust Bradie will bring it more than I trust Mirai. Bradie can benefit a lot from this title and with her consistency and abundant transitions, I see a case for her going toe to toe with the Russian girls. If she was Russian, her score would make total sense.

I am imagining Bradie with Eteri, choreographed by Gleichengauz and Averbukh yet competing for the USA. Hmmmm there could be something to this....:devil:
 

deneuved

On the Ice
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
100% disagree. The judges aren’t the ones holding her down. She missed a triple and messed up another. This is the first showing of the program so she’s not gonna get the best PCS for Interpretation and performance, and her SS and transitions aren’t amazing.

130 with a missed triple is about as high as you can get unless you are Kostner.

The problem is not the TES, but the PCS. Ashley got PCS of 33,68 in Skate Canada/Karen 30,43 at the very same event (for the short programme). Then for the free skate, Ashley got 67,50/Karen got 61,99. Here, in nationals, Ashley got PCS of 33,00 in the short/Karen 33,80. In the long, Ashley got 68.00/Karen got 69,58 (!). OK, the programmes were partly different, but it looks to me that the US federation worked on the result they wanted to have. That's why I think, a skate off, maybe with Mariah, at 4CC would be the best solution right now.
 

yoloaxel

Record Breaker
Joined
Sep 23, 2017
The problem is not the TES, but the PCS. Ashley got PCS of 33,68 in Skate Canada/Karen 30,43 at the very same event (for the short programme). Then for the free skate, Ashley got 67,50/Karen got 61,99. Here, in nationals, Ashley got PCS of 33,00 in the short/Karen 33,80. In the long, Ashley got 68.00/Karen got 69,58 (!). OK, the programmes were partly different, but it looks to me that the US federation worked on the result they wanted to have. That's why I think, a skate off, maybe with Mariah, at 4CC would be the best solution right now.

Yes I understand that, but both of them were skating to different programs, Karen switched halfway through and Ashley changed the long. I don’t think it’s really comparable? Plus are SC Karen had the worst performance of her career pretty much. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t be unsure as to which one of the two to send! But Ashley really should hold off from the outraged face. Unless your performance is perfect, I don’t think you should complain in such an obvious way.
 

TCAngel18

Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
100% disagree. The judges aren’t the ones holding her down. She missed a triple and messed up another. This is the first showing of the program so she’s not gonna get the best PCS for Interpretation and performance, and her SS and transitions aren’t amazing.

130 with a missed triple is about as high as you can get unless you are Kostner.

You would think that, but again, Karen got a 129 for 3 UR and a Downgrade.

130 is just fine for it, Internationally, perhaps even a 126-127, but Karen’s same skate Internationally does not break 120, probably scores closer to 115-118.That is the underlying issue.
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Urgh. Ashley continues to be such a sore loser! Girl your ass is 26. Grow up already! You were a brat back in 2010 when you didn’t get the Olympic spot and continue to be one. They better go with Chen for that third spot!!

What did she say in 2010? When she was 3rd behind Flatt and Nagasu?
 

Sasha'sSpins

Medalist
Joined
Apr 2, 2009
Country
United-States
On Twitter Mirai is trending at top 5, followed by Starr, Ashley, Karen and Bradie in that order (so far!). :biggrin:
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
Nothing against Tara but she was not a COP skater. She did the triple loop triple loop but she lacked amplitude, speed, power and maybe rotation sometimes. Her jumps were puny even Michelle the great argualy was not a COP skater. Her jumps lacked amplitude though I think both would get marks for consistency and repu tation or GOE's based on that.

Such drama yet again Karen Chen and Ashley Wagner - I can hear some people say - easy solution neither goes and give it to Japan lol. Won't happen. i really don't know what to say or who to send. These ladies were underwhelming. The judging rather odd throughout both sp and lp and inflation, gifting was very evident so people stop picking on Russia because generous markings or oversights (or both) was plenty evident. I do think the USFA /USA is pushing Bradie - let's see what the world stage says. Good for her in winning the title. I am disappointed in Ashley, I think she needed to do a Rippon - no not the arm up but have that drive and desire and leaving it on the ice. I am not sure La La Land was all that. She gambled and yes, the judging was suspect but in the end what a mess. Bradie and Mirai earne dthere spots now what???? Mirai deep down must be thanking h er lucky stars -this could have been 2014 all over.

As for the body of work the fact Karen was fourth last year at worlds might end Ashley's dream. Ashley and Karen won't sleep tonite. Meanwhile there are some people partying at a Japanese restaurant (Mirai's parents restaurant).

Mirai's parents still have the same restaurant from 10 years ago? I wonder if I can get a discount if I say I come from goldenskate forums.
 

TCAngel18

Medalist
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Yes I understand that, but both of them were skating to different programs, Karen switched halfway through and Ashley changed the long. I don’t think it’s really comparable? Plus are SC Karen had the worst performance of her career pretty much. That’s not to say that I wouldn’t be unsure as to which one of the two to send! But Ashley really should hold off from the outraged face. Unless your performance is perfect, I don’t think you should complain in such an obvious way.

It’s not just Skate Canada, it’s previous results, as well. Even as US number 1, Karen was getting what she deserved, a slight boost, but nothing crazy. When she started faltering, her PCS came back down to where they should be. Even with Ashley no longer considered number 1, and still faltering, she still gets over 6 points more in PCS compared to Karen, in these international paneled competitions, where both get dinged for URs, but scored PCS as is, as these panels have no horse in the race.
 

da96103

Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 13, 2014
So are Evgenia's and even moreso Alina's. But I don't see the Russian judges dropping the ball on them at nationals relative to other skaters....

In any case, most of the judges at nats are not ISU certified and will never be, and do not have a basic understanding of ISU judging standards. If you have a problem with Ashley's international scores (which is a valid opinion, mind you) that is an issue with the official COP ISU scoring system and ISU protocol regarding judges. But that does not mean the uncertified US judges can create their own PCS scoring standards (disregarding ISU protocol) and give skaters scores based on their own whimsical preferences, even if they think they have their merits. Again, I am no certified judge but my analysis of the PCS today is Ashley 69 Bradie 65 Mirai 64 Karen 62. This happens to be in line with ISU scores.

They should try to get ISU-level judges. It would be understandable if Spain uses non-ISU judges for their nationals because they probably don't have enough to form a judging panel. But US has a population of 300 million and they can get the required number of ISU-taught judges for a nationals competition, once a year.
 
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