Changes on US team for Worlds

[Lilli]

Ashley and Karen are doing Stars on Ice

 

[Ice Dance]

Yikes. What's going on?

The same thing that happens at every Worlds after an Olympics. People drop out.

Unfortunately I don't see the US being competitive in too many of the disciplines.

I see the U.S. as being competitive in the same two disciplines as we were before this Worlds.

Have often thought they should not have Worlds in an Olympic year. It just makes the season wayyyyyyyyyyy too long.

It does, but this is where the berths are earned for next season. There's never any point on counting on favorites for the Worlds after the Olympics. I plan to just enjoy the first opportunities for athletes like Hawayek & Baker, the surprise opportunities for athletes like Deanna, and the one-more-moment opportunities (I hope special ones) for athletes like Cappellini & Lanotte and James & Cipres.

 

[purplecat]

This happens way too often. Especially in an Olympic year you would expect alternates to be prepared to compete but I guess it's hard to train so hard for just a chance you will be called? Who was it that was on vacation when she was called on as an alternate - was it Angela Nikodinov? I wonder if they should have some monitoring going on for alternates? Well, at any rate I'm sad for those who have had to withdraw, happy for those who get a chance to compete at Worlds (esp those who are first timers) and have fingers crossed that all will skate reasonably well.

 

[tothepointe]

She was running through her programs last week. I was surprised to see her at my rink since she normally trains elsewhere but this was at about 3pm so probably fitting in some extra freestyle sessions. She looked good to me. I'm excited.

 

[StitchMonkey]

I am beginning to think this four year quad cycle is physically unsustainable for skaters. So many seem to be completely worn out at this point.

I really hope this season causes USFSA to rethink how they handle assignments. There is no reason to have a first second and third alternate if the first alt is not training. Just name a list of alts and pick the best if the need arises. And don't bloody pick worlds teams till after 4CC! This is all far too messy this season.

I wish the best to all the skaters. Happy for Deanna and Nate. And Happy that she is showing the worlds that we are all younger than we think and can still do amazing things when people think we are "too old". I think she is a great example for the rest of us. Fingers crossed they make the free. (BTW in this field making the free is a perfectly valid goal). I hope Tarah and Danny are ok. The funny thing is I never really liked them that much, it was not till this season they started catch my eye and earn my respect... this was actually the first time i was looking forward to seeing them as i was starting to see them in a new light - i hope they come back and more importantly I hope they are ok.

Karen. Is it worse if it is due to injury or due to her boot problems? I just don't know. If she is not in fighting form i am glad she is gracefully staying home. I think Mariah will do fine. I suspect she knew about Ashley's training and possibly even Karen's. She knows that being ready as an alt like she was for Skate America can be a life changing opportunity so I suspect she has been training and will at least be in shape. Plus, I am so happy she and Romain get to go to a major event together.

I think Mariah could do well. The problem is she almost always makes mistakes, especially in the SP, so she is always fighting an uphill battle and scored accordingly. The thing is, when she is on, she is on FIRE and gets good PCS and when she is on and does not make mistakes, she has impressive tech to back it up. People forget she repeats both lutz an flip successfully in the free... if she goes clean, she has more scoring potential than people give her credit. The problem is she is about as likely to have to clean programs as Sasha Cohen. Still, Mariah is a delight to watch, and I am sure she will make the most out of this opportunity.

At least the men are still intact... we had heard so little from Vincent and Nathan i have been a little worried.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Exactly. Why didn't she just decline being the 1st Alternate in the first place like she did with 4CCs? Kind of unprofessional. It looks like she's not coming back.

This is what bugs me. This is basically their job. Not training as first alt... especially in a bloody Olympic year, is just as you say unprofessional. If you are hired to go somewhere and answer the phones, it would be unprofessional to not show up just cuz you know the phone never rings. If your job is to train as alt... you train as an alt no matter if anyone see it. It is your bloody job. Don't want the job, don't take it.

And don't forget even an alt position comes with funding...I am all about spreading the love and seeing as many skaters get as much help as possible. So it does bug me when i see skaters basically depriving other skaters of funding opportunities by taking a alt spot and not training. Id have to look at the envelope criteria to be sure... but i think a few skaters could get in a higher tier if they had gotten the chance to be third alt if the first alts had declined sooner.

Then again... the skaters had to make the decision at nationals to be an alt or not... there is a limit to how clearly we can expect them to be thinking at that point. Skaters may have intended to train... but then things got weird. We don't know everything... but still, something sticks a bit.

 

[Mathman]

She was running through her programs last week. I was surprised to see her at my rink since she normally trains elsewhere but this was at about 3pm so probably fitting in some extra freestyle sessions. She looked good to me. I'm excited.

This is about Mariah, right? I am excited about her possibilities, too.

rst time i was looking forward to seeing [Tarah and Danny] them as i was starting to see them in a new light - i hope they come back and more importantly I hope they are ok.

For me, it was their winning performance at 2016 U.S. Nationals that first put them on the map. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63wVLFfPmvM

I think Mariah could do well. The problem is she almost always makes mistakes, especially in the SP, so she is always fighting an uphill battle and scored accordingly. The thing is, when she is on, she is on FIRE and gets good PCS and when she is on and does not make mistakes, she has impressive tech to back it up.

That is so true. With a clean skate she is tops, but oh those program-killing mistakes!

 

[Barb]

This happens way too often. Especially in an Olympic year you would expect alternates to be prepared to compete but I guess it's hard to train so hard for just a chance you will be called? Who was it that was on vacation when she was called on as an alternate - was it Angela Nikodinov? I wonder if they should have some monitoring going on for alternates? Well, at any rate I'm sad for those who have had to withdraw, happy for those who get a chance to compete at Worlds (esp those who are first timers) and have fingers crossed that all will skate reasonably well.

But Ashley and Mariah are training mates and possibly friends, it is very probable that Ashley personally said to Mariah that she won`t acept the particpation no matter what, and Mariah is not stupid, if Ashley is not training with Rafael, and she saw her doing everything except to train, I guess Mariah assumed the position of 1st alternate some weeks ago.

But what happened to Karen?

 

[skatespin]

Ugh Ashley..... I feel she should have been on the Olympic team over Karen, but at this point I don't really feel bad for her. She's too good to skate at Four Continents and now she declines a worlds spot. She probably hasn't been training, so she had to decline, but she's the first alternate, her job is to train to be ready! An Ashley Wagner in good shape could help the country maintain 3 spots. Not to mention, this is a world's without Evgenia , a lot of the skaters will be tired and are unlikely to skate PBs, I think the odds of Osmond skating another clean LP are very low, there could be an opening for good placement. Therefore, I think she's probably done with competing and will retire.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

US Fed did a terrible jod of handling the Ashley situation. This was obviously going to happen. If I remember correctly she wasn't named as the first alternate to the Olympics and they should have guessed that it wasn't a good idea to do that for the Worlds either. She was either going to train and compete at the Olympics or not train at all since she was supposed to be at the Olympics for sponsorships etc. and everybody could have guessed it. I always thought Karen's and Ashley's placements were simply wrong at the Nats and I am not surprised of what happened at the end. At this point I kinda feel like the US should simply have 2 spots. Canadian 3rd spot is also useless but I don't see them losing it. Some real competition (and drama) might even help the girls.

Good thing is Mariah most likely knew about Ashley and her lack of training. She might even be more ready and enthusiastic than the Olympians.

 

[louisa05]

When you’re selected as an alternate, the whole idea is that you’ll be ready to go if needed.

If you're Ashley.

If you are Jason, you get congratulated for making a good decision while you sort out next season. And his social media makes it pretty damn clear that he hasn't been training a whole lot since before the Olympics. And certainly not since.

When you are selected for the team, the whole idea is that you'll go. But I have seen no bitching that the Shibs or Adam aren't doing their job. Or Karen. Or Kayne/O'Shea.

For quite some time, there have been one set of standards for Ashley and one for everyone else among too many fans.

To be clear, I think that any athlete can withdraw for any reason (injury, leaving the sport, emotional/mental/physical health, family issues, etc...obviously not "I don't feel like it"--but I'm betting that's never been a reason for any athlete) and shouldn't get hell from fans who don't usually know the reasons. In an Olympic season, withdrawals from Worlds are not uncommon at all as many athletes are moving on from skating or at least take some time to evaluate their future in the sport.

 

[Blueberry]

Exactly. Even if she got back to training recently, she was at the Olympics doing the Toyota athlete reporting thing and lost three weeks of training. It makes sense for her to decline having missed that much training time. She is doing the right thing for the team. So, of course, we should criticize her for that. And, if she went, having missed a huge chunk of training time and it showed in her performance, she'd get criticized for that.

So, hey, Ashley haters! This was a win-win for all of you!! Congrats!!!

My question is why did Karen withdraw and what are her future plans?

Stop trying to victimize her. This has nothing to do with hating on Ashley - she had a responsibility and did not carry it out. Absolutely unprofessional.

Edit: Apparently Mariah was given the headsup beforehand - so I retract my statement.

 

[louisa05]

Stop trying to victimize her. This has nothing to do with hating on Ashley - she had a responsibility and did not carry it out. Absolutely unprofessional.

Jason had a responsibility and he did not carry it out.

The Shibs had a responsibility and they did not carry it out.

Adam, Karen, Kayne & O'Shea, Ross....

Everyone who withdrew from Worlds or did not accept an alternate spot, actually. But I don't see this reaction and cries of "unprofessional" about all of them.

 

[JSM]

If Ashley (or Jason, or Ross, etc) is not going to be ready and in peak form for the World Championships, it's more professional for her to withdraw than show up unprepared.

I think she learned that lesson this season already.

 

[amc987]

I'm a bit disappointed that Ashley didn't take the chance to go to Worlds and compete. It would've been a (potentially) better ending to her career than getting 4th at Nationals and creating controversy about not making the Olympic team. But if she really hasn't trained, it's better for her not to go. Honestly, I doubt that she'd have been a contender for the podium anyway given the strength of the field (even without Medvedeva) and the way she's skated all season.

It'll be some kind of miracle if the US ladies hold on to 3 spots (and that would've been true with or without Ashley).

 

[sarama]

Gracie please come baaaaaaaaaaaaaack!

She could probably do doubles and win Nationals at this point. US ladies right now is

 

[LiamForeman]

This happens way too often. Especially in an Olympic year you would expect alternates to be prepared to compete but I guess it's hard to train so hard for just a chance you will be called? Who was it that was on vacation when she was called on as an alternate - was it Angela Nikodinov? I wonder if they should have some monitoring going on for alternates? Well, at any rate I'm sad for those who have had to withdraw, happy for those who get a chance to compete at Worlds (esp those who are first timers) and have fingers crossed that all will skate reasonably well.

Yes, Angela was 2nd alternate to 1998 Worlds and decided to travel to Europe.... I suppose she didn't anticipate Tara and Nicole pulling out, but still, you don't make plans for a European vacation overnight. Seemed she had no intention of going if she was called for duty. USFS probably wasn't pleased with her.

I agree, there should be some kind of monitoring for the alternates. How many alternates can you name for a team? 3? Do you have to always go in order? Why not have say the 3 alternates compete against each other for the spot if someone drops out? Makes a lot more sense. Bobek was an alternate to Worlds 1994 and when she was called for duty she showed up undertrained and out of shape (like she did for most competitions in her career). She never should have gone there. I'd rather have seen Elaine Zayak there to be honest....

 

[pearly]

But happened to Karen?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess boot problems.

 

[Silver Ice]

It's a bummer Ashley's not going, but I'm excited to see Mariah!

Also Nate and Deanna.

 

[pearly]

Stop trying to victimize her. This has nothing to do with hating on Ashley - she had a responsibility and did not carry it out. Absolutely unprofessional.

This is literally a topic about three other skaters in addition to A.W. who also had a responsibility and did not carry it out. And the invitation to go wasn't even a surprise to them.