ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

Colonel Green · Mar 21, 2019

draqq said:
The trouble is that it's hard to prove that an allegation is fake.

Mariah’s intent on the ice is certainly impossible to prove one way or another, but a lot of the stuff ATS is saying about the backstory to this supposed feud should be reasonably possible to verify.

If this stuff isn’t true, incidentally, Mariah should absolutely sue for defamation.

skaterr · Mar 21, 2019

I knew Rafael would speak for Americans anyway. He has a precious Chen and Bell there. No surprise at all. Her agency said they have been ignoring this serious matter for months. They knew no one would stand for a little girl from a small fed. They got angry and completely flipped by the accident I guess.

bigsisjiejie · Mar 21, 2019

draqq said:
The trouble is that it's hard to prove that an allegation is fake. All the ISU investigation can say in Mariah's defense would be that they find no evidence of maleficence or bullying, but for those who already believe the allegation will just claim that the ISU wasn't thorough enough and/or that Bell just got away it and/or she's still a #racist and/or Rafael is a terrible coach for allowing this to continue, etc. etc. Eunsoo firing the agency if the allegations are false would help ease the tensions, one would hope.

Are you sure the ISU is investigating the allegations of bullying? I thought they were only looking at the accusation of deliberately slashing Eunsoo's leg at the official practice session. The ISU has obvious standing to do so, since the incident happened at an event under their jurisdiction. As to what happened or didn't happen in California training scenario, that wouldn't be under the ISU's purview--that would be for the relevant jurisdiction(s) and organizations in the USA to investigate. I can't see the ISU being willing to jump directly into matters anywhere that involve local training situations, that would be a minefield.

icybear · Mar 21, 2019

If what Eunsoo claim is true, then this isnt going to go down well because her coach has denied all of it and claims it's all made up even though Eunsoo claims that the conflict between them is already known by their coaches. If her coach and the camp is choosing to back Mariah, then who can prove that there was bullying leading up to the incident

Bcash · Mar 21, 2019

I think it’s slightly patronizing in assuming that Lim can’t differentiate bullying from friendly behavior. “Cultural misunderstanding”? That’s a funny phrase in this situation.

DaNiCG · Mar 21, 2019

I don't understand how it was an accident when Eunsoo was on the sides ? (that's how its called?) if they were in the middle or somewhere else fine but idk. How can a professional skater, who has a lot of experience, hurts another one, allegedly by accident , close to the boards? can that happen?

draqq · Mar 21, 2019

bigsisjiejie said:
Are you sure the ISU is investigating the allegations of bullying? I thought they were only looking at the accusation of deliberately slashing Eunsoo's leg at the official practice session. The ISU has obvious standing to do so, since the incident happened at an event under their jurisdiction. As to what happened or didn't happen in California training scenario, that wouldn't be under the ISU's purview--that would be for the relevant jurisdiction(s) and organizations in the USA to investigate. I can't see the ISU being willing to jump directly into matters anywhere that involve local training situations, that would be a minefield.

True. I don't think the ISU would investigate the bullying part of the allegation. I imagine that the USFSA would have to handle that (and I believe they are currently?).

By the way, according to the Washington Post report, it would seem that the agency is indeed acting on behalf of Eunsoo Lim and her parents:

-- “At this stage, we can’t conclude Bell caused the injury on purpose,” a Korea Skating Union official said, adding that Lim’s parents also mentioned the incident to the ISU. “It is hard to tell just by watching the video footage of the incident.”

-- "All That Sports, the agency that represents the Korean skater, told Agence France-Presse that it had asked the Korean Skating Union to lodge a formal complaint on Lim’s behalf with the International Skating Union."

Ziotic · Mar 21, 2019

DaNiCG said:
I don't understand how it was an accident when Eunsoo was on the sides ? (that's how its called?) if they were in the middle or somewhere else fine but idk. How can a professional skater, who has a lot of experience, hurts another one, allegedly by accident , close to the boards? can that happen?

Yes.

You see skater do the “check” motion all the time to make sure they are checking out of their jumps. They swing out the landing foot and arms as if landing a jump. If someone was standing behind them they could easily gets hit from the skaters landing leg extension.

Ophelia · Mar 21, 2019

Bcash said:
I think it’s slightly patronizing in assuming that Lim can’t differentiate bullying from friendly behavior. “Cultural misunderstanding”? That’s a funny phrase in this situation.

This.

Bullying is bullying. Doesn't take being on the same cultural wavelength to tell when you're being bullied.

Plisskin · Mar 21, 2019

Saw this from heidililacdream on FSU:

Update:
https://sports.v.daum.net/v/20190321174052360
ISU meeting was held with representatives from KSU and USFSA. According to the USA officials Mariah was unaware her skate blade had hit Eunsoo and she apologised for the incident. The KSU official said they communicated the apology to Eunsoo (through her agency) and that the agency had accepted it. Both skaters are going to meet and sort things out after the free skate tomorrow. There was no mention of the allegations of bullying.

oly2018 · Mar 21, 2019

The thing is, if KSU can't find anything in the video that proves Mariah kicked Eunsoo on purpose, how is the ISU going to? Unless Mariah texted someone that she was going to do it, there is no way to prove intent.

Also, I don't think Raf really has an American bias in the way people are making it seem. At the end of the day, Raf runs a business. One that is reliant on skaters of all nationalities paying him to be their coach. I don't think he would ruin his reputation over this. Mariah is not his star student and he has never spoken of her in a way that makes me think she is favored. If this were Nathan, then absolutely, but Raf has never shown that strong of an attachment to Mariah. If anything, he has seemed to be more outwardly supportive towards Eunsoo.

Kittosuni · Mar 21, 2019

Some skaters are already weighing on this issue. I dont think its a good idea to side someone especially that ISU is not done yet with the investigation.

evasorange · Mar 21, 2019

skaterr said:
I knew Rafael would speak for Americans anyway. He has a precious Chen and Bell there. No surprise at all. Her agency said they have been ignoring this serious matter for months. They knew no one would stand for a little girl from a small fed. They got angry and completely flipped by the accident I guess.

Raf has had no problem calling out his American skaters before. After the Olympics last year he publicly scolded Nathan and his family in an interview. And I’m pretty sure he flat out called Ashley lazy once lol. I don’t think he takes any bull from anyone, American or not.

DaNiCG · Mar 21, 2019

Ziotic said:
Yes.

You see skater do the “check” motion all the time to make sure they are checking out of their jumps. They swing out the landing foot and arms as if landing a jump. If someone was standing behind them they could easily gets hit from the skaters landing leg extension.

I saw them doing it on practice, the skaters close to the boards are skating normally (cooling off ig?) while the rest is closer to the middle but not that close idk three/five meters away from the boards? but they check to see if someone is around before doing it. I mean Mariah is 22, has being doing this for years she needs to be more careful.

//

Well Im glad that situation got clarified, lets wait and see what happen with the bullying accusations.

DSQ · Mar 21, 2019

Plisskin said:
Saw this from heidililacdream on FSU:

Update:
https://sports.v.daum.net/v/20190321174052360
ISU meeting was held with representatives from KSU and USFSA. According to the USA officials Mariah was unaware her skate blade had hit Eunsoo and she apologised for the incident. The KSU official said they communicated the apology to Eunsoo (through her agency) and that the agency had accepted it. Both skaters are going to meet and sort things out after the free skate tomorrow. There was no mention of the allegations of bullying.

Do we have a second source on this?

Mathman · Mar 21, 2019

I think the headline is misleading. Is the ISU really "launching a probe"?

Sam-Skwantch · Mar 21, 2019

Ziotic said:
Yes.

You see skater do the “check” motion all the time to make sure they are checking out of their jumps. They swing out the landing foot and arms as if landing a jump. If someone was standing behind them they could easily gets hit from the skaters landing leg extension.

I’ve seen and heard about several skaters hurt just standing on the boards. Some were paying attention and tried to avoid the incoming skater who had strayed off course and others were distracted and didn’t see the skater come crashing into them. It’s not that unusual. Certainly less rare than someone “stabbing” another skater during practice with their blade intentionally.

bigsisjiejie · Mar 21, 2019

DaNiCG said:
I don't understand how it was an accident when Eunsoo was on the sides ? (that's how its called?) if they were in the middle or somewhere else fine but idk. How can a professional skater, who has a lot of experience, hurts another one, allegedly by accident , close to the boards? can that happen?

You must not be a skater. Mariah was doing her program run-through to music, placing all the choreographic elements where they occur on the ice just as in actual competition. Her program has places where the choreography goes close to the boards, and her leg is extended out to the side, and in some cases moving in and out (leg not stationary but choreographed movement). Eunsoo happened to be physically in one of those locations at the wrong moment, and got her leg grazed. There is no way this could be deliberate, as Mariah would risk not only throwing off her entire program, but also injury to herself. In official practices, once you are doing a run-through, you don't stop unless you are injured, because you don't get another chance at redoing or starting your music over. It's possible (probable) that Mariah wouldn't have even noticed a slight graze as she was flying by, focusing on her music and elements.

You need to understand that by universal custom in the skating world, the skater whose music is playing and doing a run-through has absolute, 100% right of way and everyone else on the ice must yield and stay out of the way. That means in the middle, in the corners, by the boards, or anywhere on the ice where the program skater may skate. It was Eunsoo's responsibility to stay aware of this and keep clear. For whatever reason she didn't--and I'm inclined to think charitably that Eunsoo just momentarily wasn't paying attention and got mentally focused elsewhere--it happens frequently with skaters especially at high-stakes competitions.

skaterr · Mar 21, 2019

evasorange said:
Raf has had no problem calling out his American skaters before. After the Olympics last year he publicly scolded Nathan and his family in an interview. And I’m pretty sure he flat out called Ashley lazy once lol. I don’t think he takes any bull from anyone, American or not.

Rafael is living in America now. I think he has a strong connection toward US fed. Rafael never shows his preference for Eunsoo. He even hadn’t visited Korea as a coach of Eunsoo when she has a competition in Korea.

pearly · Mar 21, 2019

bigsisjiejie said:
You must not be a skater. Mariah was doing her program run-through to music, placing all the choreographic elements where they occur on the ice just as in actual competition. Her program has places where the choreography goes close to the boards, and her leg is extended out to the side, and in some cases moving in and out (leg not stationary but choreographed movement). Eunsoo happened to be physically in one of those locations at the wrong moment, and got her leg grazed. There is no way this could be deliberate, as Mariah would risk not only throwing off her entire program, but also injury to herself. In official practices, once you are doing a run-through, you don't stop unless you are injured, because you don't get another chance at redoing or starting your music over. It's possible (probable) that Mariah wouldn't have even noticed a slight graze as she was flying by, focusing on her music and elements.

You need to understand that by universal custom in the skating world, the skater whose music is playing and doing a run-through has absolute, 100% right of way and everyone else on the ice must yield and stay out of the way. That means in the middle, in the corners, by the boards, or anywhere on the ice where the program skater may skate. It was Eunsoo's responsibility to stay aware of this and keep clear. For whatever reason she didn't--and I'm inclined to think charitably that Eunsoo just momentarily wasn't paying attention and got mentally focused elsewhere--it happens frequently with skaters especially at high-stakes competitions.

Also, it is not very easy to deliberately hit/cut someone with your blade while skating your program. Especially in a way that is is not obvious. To plan such a thing would also mean exposing yourself to a very likely possibility of a fall because it throws you off balance and your toepicks can get caught. When more than one person are involved in a fall, there is a big risk of both of them getting cut.

ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

Colonel Green

skaterr

bigsisjiejie

icybear

Bcash

DaNiCG

draqq

FigureSkatingPhenom

Ziotic

Ophelia

Plisskin

oly2018

Kittosuni

evasorange

DaNiCG

DSQ

Mathman

Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”

bigsisjiejie

skaterr

pearly

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