ISU Statement on Bell and Lim

century2009 said:

If she was clearly out of the way, she would not ha e been it.

It is really is Eunsoo's wrong.

Bell has 100% right of way with her allotted time for her music (like Eunsoo for hers). All skaters must yield away from the main skater during her music. Bell didn't mean to hit her of course, and didnt notice as she was focus on her run through. It feels like Eunsoo didnt notice and was too close to her during a moment of Bells program.

But Eunsoo was in the way and should have not been close to the skater with the 100% right of way. This is a very common old rule in figure skating during official practice.

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Eunsoo was standing by the boards and NOT skating at all as far as I have it. Not sure how much more "out of the way" you can get as that.

I hope people remember that Eunsoo's agency is not just accusing Mariah of injuring her (whether intentionally or not) but having bullied her for months back in Lakewood, and that their rink is not only aware but has adjusted their schedules to mitigate conflict between them. Since this story is picking up more now, I once again HOPE that a journalist can get in touch with sources at the rink to confirm/deny said allegations.

draqq said:

Except that he does have preference in that he chose to coach Eunsoo (and her choosing Rafael) despite the two being halfway across the world. Rafael also has, what, 8+ students at his rink? If I have to choose between going to one of Korea's many internal competitions or going to support another skater who has a Nationals, ISU event, or another international event, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes to those instead.

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Tom visited when You Young had a competition in Korea. He cared for his skaters. Many Korean fans had talked about this. Eunsoo is the only one who had a grand prix medal as a female this season in his team. Isn’t it? She deserves more than this treatment.

Plisskin said:

Except from the article from Daum per USFSA spokesperson they said Mariah didn't even know she was injured.

I still like both skaters. I find their skating lyrical and lovely.

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I mean they have the same coach and they were in the same warm up group I find it hard to believe that's she didn't know. Did she think that she hit the boards when she hit eunsoo and even now after this whole incident started she could've apologized at any time but still hasn't after official statements have come out. It really speaks to her character in a bad way. It's unfortunate bc I think mariah is so pretty to watch

Noxchild said:

Eunsoo was standing by the boards and NOT skating at all as far as I have it. Not sure how much more "out of the way" you can get as that.

I hope people remember that Eunsoo's agency is not just accusing Mariah of injuring her (whether intentionally or not) but having bullied her for months back in Lakewood, and that their rink is not only aware but has adjusted their schedules to mitigate conflict between them. Since this story is picking up more now, I once again HOPE that a journalist can get in touch with sources at the rink to confirm/deny said allegations.

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I don't think you can really say that either skater was at 100% fault for that incident. Mariah was just doing her choreo and could easily make contact with Eunsoo's leg without being aware of it and Eunsoo was trying to stay out of the way. Accidents happen. But, I agree that the bullying claim is more serious and it should be investigated. I would like to hear from Eunsoo herself regarding the bullying and not her agency. I don't have high regard for that particular organization.

After reading the statement here's what I'm thinking:
I still have a hard time believing the collision was intentional but the fact that Eunsoo felt it was intentional speaks volumes to the allegations made by ATS that Mariah has been bullying her. If they were friendly with each other, I don't think Eunsoo would think her friend intentionally hurt her during practice. But if Mariah and Eunsoo were not in the best terms, if there was tension between them, then that would explain all this uproar for a collision. Also, the fact she didn't apologize on site must have been interpreted as not only poor manners but also as "I don't care you're hurt", which does not look good for Mariah, even if she was focused on her program, it seems Eunsoo really got hurt and from the photographs, she was clearly in pain. If Mariah saw that and ignored it and Eunsoo was already feeling vulnerable by the so said bullying prior to this event, this was the last straw for her. This is my speculation, I guess. This is the only kind of probable reason I can think of for Eunsoo to have made a big deal out of what was most probably just an accident.
It seems ISU has concluded there is no evidence of intention to hurt Eunsoo. And Eunsoo accepted the apologies from Mariah. So I think this case is closed.

Now, if the bullying allegations are true, then there's a whole other case to be taken care of, and in this case, it's not up to ISU to decide or conclude anything.
The article stated Mariah and Eunsoo are going to meet after the Free Skate. I hope they can sort everything out, whatever it is, for the sake of their careers. I wonder if Eunsoo will stay in Lakewood after this. I think she won't feel very welcomed, given that other skaters from Lakewood immediately dismissed ATS's allegations and Mariah's boyfriend even called Eunsoo a liar and said she was doing this to affect Mariah in the competition. Like, how do you go back to that place? I hope Eunsoo can find a solution to whatever problem she is having.

eaglehelang said:

The collision in 2014 was between Yuzuru & China's Han Yan. The 2016 case, ATS was also representing Denis Ten at the time. I did not like the aggressive tone ATS used in addressing the Denis Ten issue.
I dont like the tone ATS is using now too with Ensoo's case.

Its not racism, I'm Asian residing in Asia. I shake my head at the way ATS is handling it

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I totally agree.

There was absolutely no need to immediately go making any of this so public without a shred of real evidence it wasn't accidental.

The sheer drama it has caused is ruining the Championships for everyone and the fans (Korean or otherwise) making hateful comments towards Mariah are very distressing to a lot of people.

The worst thing is I'm fairly sure they knew such a reaction to the allegations was probable, as it's not the first time they have bullied and threatened a skater because of an alleged misdeed against a Korean skater.

sx98423 said:

I mean they have the same coach and they were in the same warm up group I find it hard to believe that's she didn't know. Did she think that she hit the boards when she hit eunsoo and even now after this whole incident started she could've apologized at any time but still hasn't after official statements have come out. It really speaks to her character in a bad way. It's unfortunate bc I think mariah is so pretty to watch

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You do have a point about them having the same coach. But this all did escalate kind of fast. In the article it even says while Eunsoo was being treated that same day her/her agency went to the press and KFed. Then this all blew up later that day/overnight in Japan and now it's blowing up a day later in the West. Then today their reps met and Mariah issued the apology/ said she didn't know. That's not exactly a lot of time, especially when Mariah allegedly didn't even know in the first place.

All around I think this was handled very poorly by her management.

sx98423 said:

She could've apologized right after the incident and she didn't. Regardless of whether the accusations are true or not it made me like her a lot less. Who cuts up someone's leg accidently and just skates away :noshake:

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If she didn't even know that she nicked Eunsoo, how is she going to apologize? She didn't even know. It was clearly something very minor if Eunsoo was able to skate so well with only a small bandage. Plus, it is on Eunsoo to get out of the way if it's Mariah's run through.

I don't know why ATS made such a media ruckus when Eunsoo could have approached Mariah directly. It reeks of an ulterior motive.

skaterr said:

Rafael is living in America now. I think he has a strong connection toward US fed. Rafael never shows his preference for Eunsoo. He even hadn’t visited Korea as a coach of Eunsoo when she has a competition in Korea.

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Sometimes that has got to do with scheduling conflict with Rafael's other skaters and perhaps $$$. TSL mentioned Korea Fed pays less than Japan Fed.

Ensoo needs to pay for her coach's fee, flight ticket, hotel if she wants Rafael to be there.
If not mistaken, Mariah Bell did not have any coach with her at Golden Spin in Zagreb. Rafael was at GPFinals but other coaches could hv gone. Cost was said to be a reason & Mariah didnt mind not having a coach there for smaller competition.

If you notice, Ensoo's male counterpart, Cha Jun Hwan usually only has Brian Orser at the boards with him. If Orser cant go, Ghislain will be at the boards. 1 coach.
Only if many students are competing like Worlds then there are 2 coaches.

evasorange said:

Hey I never said I agreed with it lol! Just that I don’t think he has any problem publicly scolding his skaters if he feels they are in the wrong no matter what country they are from, because the poster I was responding to said that Raf would always side with Americans

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If the skater was a minor, and I was the skater's parent, I'd have no problem at all dropkicking him across the room and taking my minor skater elsewhere.

Oh....assumptions, assumptions, assumptions. Poor Eun-soo...imho she is rather used as a tool for someone's assumptions in her management company...
If there would be a fair judgment for Yuna Kim on 2010, then, I am sure, this complain never would have happened. A trust is lost
and that lost trust lingers and will linger because it was- and intentionally was- an unfair judgment in 2010.

Mariah and Eun-soo are two wonderful skaters who truly love figure skating, and accidents happen.
And no one complains that Matteo collided with Vanessa on purpose.

So much distraction before free skate, too much.

oleada said:

If she didn't even know that she nicked Eunsoo, how is she going to apologize? She didn't even know. It was clearly something very minor if Eunsoo was able to skate so well with only a small bandage. Plus, it is on Eunsoo to get out of the way if it's Mariah's run through.

I don't know why ATS made such a media ruckus when Eunsoo could have approached Mariah directly. It reeks of an ulterior motive.

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Her management is really awful. This is not a big deal and got blown out of the water. I do think ATS has an ulterior motive. And add other stuff of "bullying" when there is NO evidence at all.

At this point, I think Eunsoo will be fired/let go from Team Raf after this.

Although it might not be her fault, she caused this through her management.

I think Eunsoo will be looking for another coach next year.

skaterr said:

Tom visited when You Young had a competition in Korea. He cared for his skaters. Many Korean fans had talked about this. Eunsoo is the only one who had a grand prix medal as a female this season in his team. Isn’t it? She deserves more than this treatment.

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Except that Eunsoo Lim received all her medals in her debut year under Rafael's tutelage. If Rafael did not care about her, as you suggest, she would not be improving nor getting these kinds of results. Rafael was also with Eunsoo at Rostelecom where she earned her first Grand Prix medal, and was with her at Four Continents, and was with her at US International Classic, and now is with her at Worlds where (again, under his tutelage) she's in the final flight with a personal best. The fact that he wasn't with her at a Korean Nationals event doesn't means he doesn't care, it means he has other skaters he has to attend to and he can't be there in two places at once, and Eunsoo and her team understand this given that they chose to have her be coached by someone halfway across the world who has other top-level skaters in his stable.

century2009 said:

Her management is really awful. This is not a big deal and got blown out of the water. I do think ATS has an ulterior motive. And add other stuff of "bullying" when there is NO evidence at all.

At this point, I think Eunsoo will be fired/let go from Team Raf after this.

Although it might not be her fault, she caused this through her management.

I think Eunsoo will be looking for another coach next year.

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Poor Eunsoo!
She improves much under Raf

If I am Eunsoo, I will fire that agency (if I can do so).

eaglehelang said:

Sometimes that has got to do with scheduling conflict with Rafael's other skaters and perhaps $$$. TSL mentioned Korea Fed pays less than Japan Fed.

Ensoo needs to pay for her coach's fee, flight ticket, hotel if she wants Rafael to be there.
If not mistaken, Mariah Bell did not have any coach with her at Golden Spin in Zagreb. Rafael was at GPFinals but other coaches could hv gone. Cost was said to be a reason & Mariah didnt mind not having a coach there for smaller competition.

If you notice, Ensoo's male counterpart, Cha Jun Hwan usually only has Brian Orser at the boards with him. If Orser cant go, Ghislain will be at the boards. 1 coach.
Only if many students are competing like Worlds then there are 2 coaches.

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Raf doesn't like traveling and is not traveling to Korea for a ranking or national comp. Or overseas for a random competition with one skater. It's not happening and it's not personal and doesn't mean he hates Eunsoo. He wouldn't do that for most of his skaters.

ISU's official statement on the matter (https://isu.org/isu-news/news/145-n...ll-usa-and-eun-soo-lim-kor?templateParam=15):

"The ISU has been made aware of a statement published on March 20 by All-That Sports, and subsequently by the Korea Skating Union on March 21 about an incident which happened between Ms. Mariah Bell and Ms. Eun Soo Lim, during their practice on March 20 at the ISU World Figure Skating Championships.

The incident was verbally reported to the ISU by the Korean Team Leader however no formal complaint has been received.

Based on the evidence at hand at this point in time, which includes a video, there is no evidence that Ms. Bell intended any harm to Ms. Lim.

The ISU met with delegates from both USA and Korea and urged both parties to find an amicable solution. The ISU maintains that this remains the appropriate approach."

century2009 said:

Her management is really awful. This is not a big deal and got blown out of the water. I do think ATS has an ulterior motive. And add other stuff of "bullying" when there is NO evidence at all.

At this point, I think Eunsoo will be fired/let go from Team Raf after this.

Although it might not be her fault, she caused this through her management.

I think Eunsoo will be looking for another coach next year.

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Maybe they want out of the contract with Rafael without paying anything? It's a thought.

Yeah, I'm more concerned about what the heck happened before this in lakewood that lead eunsoo or her people(a reminder that the statements/accusations so far have come from her agency, not herself) to believe it wasn't an accident. So many whys... why didn't someone from eunsoo's side let mariah know right after practice, why would ats make such inflammatory and public statements if nothing actually happened(and sabotage their own skater?), why, why, why. My head hurts, and I don't even know either skater personally. Whatever the case, I feel bad for eunsoo who just turned 16 less than a month ago and is the minor in this situation.

century2009 said:

Her management is really awful. This is not a big deal and got blown out of the water. I do think ATS has an ulterior motive. And add other stuff of "bullying" when there is NO evidence at all.

At this point, I think Eunsoo will be fired/let go from Team Raf after this.

Although it might not be her fault, she caused this through her management.

I think Eunsoo will be looking for another coach next year.

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Her agency did everything to protect their skater. How could we know there’s something going on in Lakewood without their revealing? If they didn’t take a action like this, poor eunsoo would been go through this hardship on her own. Why do you think Eunsoo mother videotaped her practices and give it to her agency person? Her mother knew she ’s been bullied that’s why she taped her practice and gave it to her agency person.

century2009 said:

If she was clearly out of the way, she would not ha e been it.

It is really is Eunsoo's wrong.

Bell has 100% right of way with her allotted time for her music (like Eunsoo for hers). All skaters must yield away from the main skater during her music. Bell didn't mean to hit her of course, and didnt notice as she was focus on her run through. It feels like Eunsoo didnt notice and was too close to her during a moment of Bells program.

But Eunsoo was in the way and should have not been close to the skater with the 100% right of way. This is a very common old rule in figure skating during official practice.

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Have you seen the video? I for sure don’t remember Bell having a leg kick inches from the board in her choreography.