2015 Cup of China Mens Free Skate

[Icey]

Kevin also was the first to land 5 quads in one competition.

 

[Tavi...]

Before the competition started, I predicted 65 PCS for Jin with massive gap with Javier, but Jin did ride high from a spectacular SP, something I'd rank 2nd best short for mens this season so far... Pat and Hanyu underperformed! Amazing consider this is his Senior season debut. After Ivan got 68, i predicted his PCS should be around 68 - 72 depends on how he had skated. That is the highest TES skate of the season, so of course he got the higher end of the spectrum. Bear in mind, alot of people thought he should have won the World Junior Champion last year... so he got enough reputation probably no lesser than Evgenia as a rising star of the sport among the men, that we already saw how Shoma benefited. Tim did not have that in terms of momentum.

Given how historic 4lz3t is, he got the sort of boost that naturally comes with it, like how Liza with a successful 3A can get. MCM is undermarked I agree, and the guys you mentioned were not in contention, nor skate at home. In any case it is only 4 points away from last place in terms of PCS, so it is really understandable consider the improved performance from last season when he got high 64s for inferior presentation. This season is a new BoYang that is just technically spectacular enough to keep the audience interested and glued. Consider what the Russia guys generally get in PCS for their 2 quads, this is undermarked.

I understand what you're saying. I agree the 4Z and the 4 quad long program were exciting, historic and all that. I just think the judges over valued it. And I don't things like his reputation or his improvement from last year should matter. It's what he put on the ice today. The thing is, the gap with Han Yan was so huge because of his TES that Jin could have received appropriate PCS - like low 60s - and he still would have won silver. And then the judges wouldn't have had to overmark Javi on PCS.

He was the second to the last skater. They already knew how everyone else had skated and what their marks were. It just seems wrong to me.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I can't believe Boyang made his program even harder, going for a second 3Axel super late in the program. LOL!

Although, the scoring system actually gives him no extra points in base value for it (only an extra opportunity for higher GOE by doing 3Axel), since now he's leaving 3Loop out of his program, not doing a second 3Toe, and putting the half loop+3Sal combo in the non-bonus section of the program.

Hopefully the quad consistency will increase. Those jumps are a perfect match for the excitement of the music.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Kevin also was the first to land 5 quads in one competition.

He never did 5 cleanly and that's with his extreme pre-rotation not being punished enough by tech callers even.

 

[Ilvskating]

Boyang got level 4s for all his spins and step sequences in the SP. He also got level 3 level 4 for those in the LP. So his skating skills are OK, you really need good skating skills to get level 4 in steps. What I see as major issue for Boyang is his stroking and knees. He really needs to bend his knees and have deeper edges. Go to Tracy and he will be fine. Canadians are good at stroking, even many lower level skaters have very good stroking. So Send him to Canada more often and for longer time, get him a good LP. He has performance skills and he is good looking. The SP is a good proof that giving him a good program will make a big difference. He's really the same type as Hanyu, the first time I watch his video I almost mistook him as Hanyu, same body type. Look at how good Hanyu is now. So I guess if the fed invest in him sky is the limit.

 

[Icey]

He never did 5 cleanly and that's with his extreme pre-rotation not being punished enough by tech callers even.

I was just reporting what the record says.

 

[lavender]

Two thoughts - one is, it's hard to believe that Javi and Hanyu have the same team. Do they have different choreographers? Javi's program, his costume, his choreography are superb. I find Hanyu's to be less than superb in all ways. Just my taste and my opinion.

The other is - we definitely need skaters like Patrick Chan and Javi Fernandez to keep the beauty of figure skating from being overtaken by just pure athleticism. Patrick and Javi (and several others) are able to combine the showman grace and interest with the jumps. This is the kind of figure skating I love! Both are seasoned competitors and performers, both draw the crowd into their performance, every move is finished, the musicallity and the interpretation of that music is there. It's just pleasant to watch and reminds me why I love this sport so much. Even when they fall or make a mistake it's covered easily and they move on.

We have any number of jumping beans out there who do incredible things on their skates with jumps. BUT......it seems to me like the choreography just gets them from jump to jump and the music is just a necessity and not a contributing factor to the program.

I agree. I was surprise that my fav euro commentators thought Javi lost. Heck I would definitely put Chan's program from last week with one quad over that quad fest.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I was just reporting what the record says.

Where's this listed at? Kevin did land 5 "quads" at 2013 Four Continents, but two of them received underrotation calls and -GOE.

 

[OS]

That's it...
Just want to get it out there. I am claiming it! It is the season for

JINSANITY!!!! :hap85:

 

[MaxSwagg]

Boyang got level 4s for all his spins and step sequences in the SP. He also got level 3 level 4 for those in the LP. So his skating skills are OK, you really need good skating skills to get level 4 in steps. What I see as major issue for Boyang is his stroking and knees. He really needs to bend his knees and have deeper edges. Go to Tracy and he will be fine. Canadians are good at stroking, even many lower level skaters have very good stroking. So Send him to Canada more often and for longer time, get him a good LP. He has performance skills and he is good looking. The SP is a good proof that giving him a good program will make a big difference. He's really the same type as Hanyu, the first time I watch his video I almost mistook him as Hanyu, same body type. Look at how good Hanyu is now. So I guess if the fed invest in him sky is the limit.

Frankly, levels are essentially determined by quantity of steps, degree of arm flailing, and a lot of body contortions, not quality. You don't need good skating skills to get a Level 4.

 

[Blades of Passion]

You do need pretty good skating skills to get Level 4. Showing every type of difficult turn + choctaw, in both directions, and two different clusters of difficult turns, on different feet, all while keeping some kind of rhythm + upper body movement + additional multi-directional turning, isn't something anyone can just go out there and do. Although, yes, the sequences still don't exactly reward great footwork appropriately and they are way too convoluted.

JINSANITY!!!!

Hah, great catchphrase.

 

[noskates]

Just got back from work and am catching up. Someone said upthread that people were taking cheap shots at Hanyu. I don't see that at all. We're discussing different styles and what one person likes over another.

 

[chairmanmao]

Well Jin has elevated the sport to new heights whether that's bad or good depends on how much one values athleticism. Someone who's fave still struggles with a 3A and peddles a program Asada could do would be hard pressed to praise Jin's achievement.

 

[Sandpiper]

Javier: Better than his first GP outing last year. LP was more "classic Javi," and I found it less interesting than his SP. Considering he only pulled 177 while Patrick pulled 190 with one quad and one 3A last week (yes, at Skate CHANada, but still ), Javi probably knows he has work to do. Hoping to see a better LP at GPF.

Boyang: I was really impressed with his short, but this long... maybe it was the stamina drain of the long program, maybe it was seeing it in HD on the TV. But he looked really, really slow (step sequence was essentially a crawl), and there wasn't a whole lot that wow'ed me outside of the jumps. Still, the opening 4Lz was a dream and I see potential here.

Han Yan: Maybe my memory's crazy, but I thought his program was weird during SA, and now it's just so... boring? At least it's not a ridiculous comedy routine, but it's like Lori told him where to do the jumps and where to do the transitions and didn't say a thing about movement, expression, anything... Didn't help that he appeared to be wearing his training outfit and stared down at the ice half the time. *sigh* I really want to see him do well, but he seems to be going backwards in terms of presentation.

Those were the three I caught on TV. I'm honestly scared to watch the rest, if that performance from Han Yan somehow got him onto the podium. :scard7: What on earth happened to Sergei?!

 

[MIM]

Here's the thing: Take a look at someone of emptier programs, then take a look at Patrick, Javi, Jason, etc. where the choreography doesn't stop half a rink before the jump, and starts IMMEDIATELY after the jump. That is the difference, to me, between a jumper, and a skater. The guys can do great jumps with all the set up in the world. The mark of a true great is selling a program, while getting little-to-no setup for jumps, and the seamless blend made.

Exactly, I was so happy for Javi's fluent choreography and presentation this season. He is miles better than he was last year, when his LP was overwhelmingly packed with moves, he could not even act/sell. I remember he was a total wreck and out of breath at the end of the program, until He pulled out a brilliant lp and became a WC. After that, whether it is because of a newly getting WC's confidence or not, I notice he looks much more comfortable in his very complex program and selling it even tough it is not technically perfect yet. Bravo Javi! You certainly live up to your reputationi!

Two thoughts - one is, it's hard to believe that Javi and Hanyu have the same team. Do they have different choreographers? Javi's program, his costume, his choreography are superb. I find Hanyu's to be less than superb in all ways. Just my taste and my opinion.

The other is - ...

I agree deeply with you on the other thought. But I have to differ on the first one.
Javi and Yuzu both went back to their roots in one program and kept their best known style in the other. I think it is very thoughtful and wise move from BOrser to make that happen at this time of their career (WC and OGM respectively).
By setting it apart from their current style, the originality of the Root program is genuine, fresh, and striking, in the meantime their current style is defined and polished more clearly and specifically. This is IMO how you discover your inner-artist and expand your perspectives.
I can already see the difference in their performace; Yuzu has a deeper and more thorough interpretation in his SP at the SC, and Javi showed matured and relaxed presentation in his LP here. Of course, I am so thrilled to see their one-of-a kind, stunning root programs.

 

[Meoima]

You do need pretty good skating skills to get Level 4. Showing every type of difficult turn + choctaw, in both directions, and two different clusters of difficult turns, on different feet, all while keeping some kind of rhythm + upper body movement + additional multi-directional turning, isn't something anyone can just go out there and do. Although, yes, the sequences still don't exactly reward great footwork appropriately and they are way too convoluted.

How about Liza, she was getting level 4s on stsq regularly last season but why do so many of these GS posters still insist her SS sucks?

 

[MIM]

Misha Ge was stunning. He did not place hight at this competition, but he is in my heart. He was like a sing-a-song-writer literally. He knew what/how to express at the right moment to the music. He means every movement using an entire body. Fast and slow he moved to the music and interpreted in-between the notes. He created his own theatric art piece to this otherwise another languid piece by Chopin.

I was not familiar with Grant Hochstein. He was surprisingly good! The choreography in the beginning really set the tone. Jumps and steps are are true to the music, but in the second half, he seemed to focus on the elements only. I wish he kept the intensity of presentation and connection to the music he started with throughout the program. But, very very solid skate and bravo to the up-and-coming skater!

Jin is just a raw talent!!! No skaters can do a 4lutz as clean as he does even though they are allowed to stroke or crossover with/without deep edge, or good posture for 4mins to set up the jump. I am just out of a word, jaw dropped! Victory of flying and overcoming the law of gravity with a toe pick and a back outside edge!!!

 

[Skater Boy]

Misha Ge has a lot of fans but he sort of reminds me of the poor man's Denis Ten but he is too inconsistent right now.

 

[MIM]

Misha Ge has a lot of fans but he sort of reminds me of the poor man's Denis Ten but he is too inconsistent right now.

I have been in love with Denis for years and I just become a fan of Misha now. I think they are different enough.
Denis and Misha, they both interpret music seriously and on their own. I think it is a very creative and genuine quality they have in common. And this quality is realized in their program so beautifully and differently. I would call Misha and Denis are both artistic director of their own skating programs.

I think Misha is a less skilled skater in comparison to Denis. But, as a choreographer/skater, he does know and place moves that are less difficult, but impactful, effective, and fit to the music perfectly.

 

[Blades of Passion]

How about Liza, she was getting level 4s on stsq regularly last season but why do so many of these GS posters still insist her SS sucks?

They made it harder to get Level 4 this season and her SS does relatively "suck", with what she is showing this year in her programs as compared to the best.