Hanyu BV is 95 so there is no big diffrence. The diffrence is big behind Hanyu were the closest skater I think is Shoma with 86 and Fernandez 85 or something like that. Hanyu has great quality on quads and other jumps. He just needs more time as season goes on.
2015 Cup of China Mens Free Skate
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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Thanks a lot! I would equal Yuzu's WTT and Patrick's SC as home inflation for each of them.I think I'm trying to see the safe point for Yuzuru and I cannot see the one. At least at this day and time. :scratch:
Yuzu never does 'safe' things. He is not a skater who skates in a safe way that makes it easy to watch. I'm never certain about what he will do or how he will do. For that, I watch Jason Brown and Nam Ngyuen (and cheer for them too). :dance2:
And again- you got me wrong. I don't think he should play safe or let go one his FS quads. In fact I hate when Olympics is won with no risk implied.
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Sorry for the misunderstanding then.
Cup of China showcased Boyang's amazing jumping ability and brought him to everyone's attention. But I had seen him since about 2 seasons ago and knew he was coming. He's still not quite 'there' yet in other aspects of his programs but I don't think what he has done should change the way that other skaters are training much.
For one thing, other skaters probably will never have the affinity for a 4lz that Boyang does. That's his strongest point. As well has doing the 4T and 4S. However, his programs showed a lack of transitions before and after, slowness on his spins and sometimes during other parts of his long program, it looked like he was going to come to a stop. -The judges also noticed and gave him lower PCS. Much lower than Javi.
All that to say, Boyang's programs are geared towards his particular talents and as long as Yuzu and Javi can do their own programs justice, they will be scoring ahead of him for the next few seasons at least. If Boyang can add transitions and choreography to his LP, then the world had better watch out...but there is no guarantee that he can do that without lowering the quality and success rate of his quads.
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- Feb 13, 2014
I don't understand your logic? The system is designed to balance both quality and quantity. Only depend on quantity or quality is not what the system is aiming for.
PCS is not something you can easily gain without improving quality. There is no way performances with band landings in most jumps (even good jumps have forward landing), weak spin, awkward presentation will get top PCS just because of the sky high BV. In short, when you only have quantity, there is no guarantee you have to improve much less. If PCS is gained that easily, Boyang wouldn't have lost JWC to a guy who has much worse TES (20 points lower) than him but has much better presentation. PCS is not gained just by higher BV. You have to improve your SS, your choreography, presentation, consistency, package... it is not easy as it sounds. In fact, improving PCS is even more difficult than improving TES.
The danger of only focusing on difficult jumps is that, when your jumps fail you (bad ice, injuries, something wrong with the mentality...) judges will drop you harshly because your quality in other aspects is too weak. A great skater is someone who can gain great points in all elements, not just jumps. And in Boyang's case, many (or I'd say most) of his jumps don't have good landing to get good GOE. And improving GOE is not that easy at all with a difficult layout because when you have to focus on landing your jumps first, you might have much less energy to land it beautifully.
There are 2 ways to improve TES, one is to skate clean as much as possible with great quality (like Patrick at SC), the other is to raise the BV. The danger of aiming for low BV and high GOE strategy is that, GOE is depended on judges, today they reward you a lot of GOE, tomorrow they have all the reasons not to because there are some guys with much higher BV also perform well with good quality.
Depending too much on GOE and PCS is not something you call "fate is in your own hands". In fact, if I were a skater who often depends on GOE and PCS to win, I should be worry more than skaters who have both quality and quantity who keep improving.
In short, IMO, with skaters with high BV and relatively high quality, their fates are on their own hands more than the rest of the field. As for skaters with only sky high BV, it's much more riskier for them to be dropped off the rank when their quantity fail which might happen often because men are inconsistent. As for skaters with low BV and high GOE, they will have to skate as clean as possible every time which is not that easy under the pressure.
And believe me, improving quality might be the hardest task of all.
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Actually only Chan got huge GOE boost at Skate Canada, I do think in neutral country where all of them will compete, we will see quite different picture tbh. Had Chan competed at COC no matter with Javi or Yuzu, we should have seen "a bit"
I don't think Chan received higher than usual GOE when he skates his element cleanly - and he certainly didn't get a "huge" GOE boost anywhere. And Hanyu and others were gifted sometimes on GOE too (eg Hanyu getting a +3 for his 4S which wasn't a perfect quad, getting +1 for his 3A-1T, and especially getting 0/+1 for his touchdown 4T-2T).
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Seeing the event live, I can tell you that the skating skill Han Yan displayed was wonderful. I am a total fan. I think he is second only to Patrick Chan. He seemed to have gotten a bit taller and to have matured physically, so I hope his jumps will become more stable in the future.
Javier's musicality and performance skill was really good too!
Boyang's jumping ability was incredible, though I did wonder if he would be able to rotate as well as he does now, when his body changes.
It was a great men's event.
Javier's musicality and performance skill was really good too!
Boyang's jumping ability was incredible, though I did wonder if he would be able to rotate as well as he does now, when his body changes.
It was a great men's event.
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I'm so glad you were able to see it live. Han Yan's skating really is the best when seen live. Loved what I saw last year at WTT. That's why I wish he had better programs.
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NBC is broadcasting the Men's FS right now!!
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I think 1a is way under appreciated. It has a special charm.
Han Yan's music just changed dramatically .....twice....what just happened. Wait...now it's back. I actually really like the first song a lot. Good choice although I'm sure some will say it drags. Oh well...that's their problem
Han Yan's music just changed dramatically .....twice....what just happened. Wait...now it's back. I actually really like the first song a lot. Good choice although I'm sure some will say it drags. Oh well...that's their problem
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I really don't understand why e'rbody gotta be doing all of their big gun jumps at the beginning of programs. It would make so much more sense to build your program up and then go for the big jumps. Ya know...create momentum that may actually serve to help you pull in the big stuff. Plus missing the early stuff often leads to lack luster performances that drag on for four minutes. I'm going to make a thread about this topic :yes:
Grant's program seems to lead me to a voidy place that I'm unable to fully appreciate. Seemed like an 8minute program.
Is Tara secretly Canadian? She just said Grant really put that 'oot' there:confused2:
Grant's program seems to lead me to a voidy place that I'm unable to fully appreciate. Seemed like an 8minute program.
Is Tara secretly Canadian? She just said Grant really put that 'oot' there:confused2:
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Actually it is Tracy Wilson commentating with Terry on NBC.
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That makes more sense and explains why I'm hearing a Canadian accent
:I'm used to hearing the announcers on my phone and they all sound different on my TV.
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Haha...as part of Javi's intro they showed him winning the WC where he was bah'ing like a sheep 
Boyang is fun to watch. People would go bonkers over a skater who attacked PCS like he does TES. It's nice to see multiple dimensions to the sport IMO.
Boyang is fun to watch. People would go bonkers over a skater who attacked PCS like he does TES. It's nice to see multiple dimensions to the sport IMO.
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Haha...as part of Javi's intro they showed him winning the WC where he was bah'OMG like a sheep
That was an awesome, unforgettable reaction! :yes:
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BTW, credit to NBC for full and forthright disclosures that Tracy is Javi's coach.
Great improvement over vague or nonexistent mentions on NBC in seasons past that its commentator Tanith's life partner was/is Charlie.
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You are correct. His wiki bio said he landed five and I accepted that as being true. After reading this thread, or somewhere else recently, I'm confused about what the definition of "landing" is lol. Yes, the two in the short program were ur's. The three in the long were fine.
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I do think Liza's skating skill is better than many other top Russian skaters. I believe her edge quality is much better. What I don't like much is her arms and costumes but I love her skating. She also has very good posture too. I also like her passion on ice. I wish she can explore more styles; it is kind of repetitive through the years.
Well, but there are skaters who "attack" PCS as you say, including Jason Brown, Denis Ten, Jeremy Abbott. And Shoma Uno is a budding artist with quads. Unfortunately, Abbott lacked a consistent quad and full competitive self-belief. Denis is sublime but in the past he was inconsistent and has battled injuries. Jason Brown is consistent competitively and he is precocious stylistically and musically, but he is being tested this year with needing to land a quad to be considered a threat for top of the podium.
The problem is that it doesn't matter if a skater is weak in PCS categories, cuz if they have the quads they are generally over-scored on PCS, including Jin, Han Yan, and especially Voronov. Even Javi is average in terms of having superb artistic skills, but most judges don't care; they continue to hand Javi overly high PCS scores, even with technical errors. It simply doesn't matter.
And, I cringe for those who seem to think this was a great competition. That's a comment on the fact that fans who are fairly new to the sport over the past five years judge quad battles with multiple errors as "great" competition. I thought the sp performances were average to good, but the free programs were mostly boring, aside from some nice moments from Misha, Michael, Richard. Grant is also a nice skater but he was sluggish in the fp, and I am weary of Les Miserable music.
Voronov did not deserve the PCS he received in both programs. He is a stiff skater with no sense of the music and no refinement or grace to his skating. The music was playing in the background while he skated over it; anything could have been playing. I think Voronov is a nice guy and kudos for his determination and apparent love for figure skating, but probably he would have made a better speed or short track skater.
Nan Song seems like a lovely person, and he is a good jumper. Therefore, it is too bad that he is not being challenged to work on his presentation skills. Han Yan has fabulous skating skills and great potential artistically, but his performance was boring (despite his high PCS). So once again, no one is challenging or helping Han to do more to develop artistically (and why should they when the judges seem to think he's already worthy of high PCS scores).
Javi's sp is good and he is looking more confident starting the new season as World champion. Still, his fp is in the same genre of season's past, even though it is less frantic and gimmicky. Anyway, it doesn't matter since he routinely pulls high PCS because of his quad rep.
With the high scores thrown at Jin for mastering quad lutz/ triple combo in sp (and still getting overall good scores on PCS and crazy high scores on tech in fp, despite more of his weaknesses as a young skater showing up), where's the incentive for him to improve his presentation?
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