2015 Europeans Free Dance, Jan. 29

[WeakAnkles]

I love that P/C won, but it's kinda scary tbh. For them I mean. They are very in right now and the judges are going with it (not that they don't deserve those scores), but they rose to the top so quickly that I'm scared about a (figurative, and literal I guess) fall happening. I mean, the careers of skaters are full of ups and downs. The judges really went with them this season, and I'm a bit scared that if a new great team comes along, they may fall out of the judges' favour for some reason. I don't know, I just kinda feel worried for them sometimes with everything happening so quickly :

The Shibs were in a different place. They got lucky their first senior year that the SD was the golden waltz, which is a dance totally in their wheelhouse. They won bronze because P/B made crucial errors during the FD at Worlds. The next year, the Shibs and Marina made a huge, crucial mistake: they danced another big band FD. It was so similar in feel to the previous, World medal-winning FD, that it looked like a carbon copy, only a carbon copy that was a little blurrier and smeary. The Maia and Alex both went through a growth spurt and Alex went through a series of injuries (probably adjusting to their new bodies). So they lost flow and that most crucial of ID qualities, speed. And Marina seemed to flounder for ideas for new FDs, including recycling the music from one of their junior programs (Memoirs of a Geisha, which I always thought was underrated, but de gustibus...). Did I miss anything Mrs P?

The one big mistake P/C can make next year would be to do another softly romantic, classically inspired FD. You don't want the dreaded "one note" reputation. And alas, their coach and choreographer hasn't shown yet that she can do anything other than softly romantic pieces (she does them very well, but...). P/C has shown they can do something fiercely au courant, but they also have to answer to a federation that loves to meddle. On the other hand, both of them have gone through their growth spurts, so they won't have that whole issue plaguing them. They also don't have the inherent restrictions that a brother/sister team has. So we'll see. But repeating the style and feel of a previous program can be a death knell. Ask the Shibs. Ask Voir about their Sochi FD.

 

[elif]

The one big mistake P/C can make next year would be to do another softly romantic, classically inspired FD. You don't want the dreaded "one note" reputation. And alas, their coach and choreographer hasn't shown yet that she can do anything other than softly romantic pieces (she does them very well, but...). P/C has shown they can do something fiercely au courant, but they also have to answer to a federation that loves to meddle. On the other hand, both of them have gone through their growth spurts, so they won't have that whole issue plaguing them. They also don't have the inherent restrictions that a brother/sister team has. So we'll see. But repeating the style and feel of a previous program can be a death knell. Ask the Shibs. Ask Voir about their Sochi FD.

That also bothered me, all teams of Marie-France Dubreuil skates same style this year.:disapp: I fully believe Papadakis/Cizeron can do something different than this. Don't know about their coaching team.

 

[Lota]

I hope they go back to modern music next year, cause I think with their improved skills, it would really stand out. And I agree with Weak Ankles earlier point that their coach should not just have them do romantic programs.

I think they'll go back to modern music next year. I've read some of their interviews and they said that they wanted to do something out of their comfort zone this season. Actually, both of their programs this year are out of their comfort zone, which is incredible considering their success with them. So, while it was not stated explicitly, I do think they'll be skating to something much different next year.

By the way, for those who don't know, their FD was based on the beautiful pas de deux from the ballet Le Parc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUaMJ_xGK9o

 

[Mrs. P]

The Shibs were in a different place. They got lucky their first senior year that the SD was the golden waltz, which is a dance totally in their wheelhouse. They won bronze because P/B made crucial errors during the FD at Worlds. The next year, the Shibs and Marina made a huge, crucial mistake: they danced another big band FD. It was so similar in feel to the previous, World medal-winning FD, that it looked like a carbon copy, only a carbon copy that was a little blurrier and smeary. The Maia and Alex both went through a growth spurt and Alex went through a series of injuries (probably adjusting to their new bodies). So they lost flow and that most crucial of ID qualities, speed. And Marina seemed to flounder for ideas for new FDs, including recycling the music from one of their junior programs (Memoirs of a Geisha, which I always thought was underrated, but de gustibus...). Did I miss anything Mrs P?

The one big mistake P/C can make next year would be to do another softly romantic, classically inspired FD. You don't want the dreaded "one note" reputation. And alas, their coach and choreographer hasn't shown yet that she can do anything other than softly romantic pieces (she does them very well, but...). P/C has shown they can do something fiercely au courant, but they also have to answer to a federation that loves to meddle. On the other hand, both of them have gone through their growth spurts, so they won't have that whole issue plaguing them. They also don't have the inherent restrictions that a brother/sister team has. So we'll see. But repeating the style and feel of a previous program can be a death knell. Ask the Shibs. Ask Voir about their Sochi FD.

That sums it up, WA. The growth spurts also made it tough for them to get anywhere as far as lifts. And I personally liked the new version of Memoirs of a Geisha also. (which, to correct you WA, was a novice program.)

But the thing I'd credit them for is that they never gave up. And they aren't giving up now. And even though they never replicated their results, I still feel like they grew in other ways. They learned to compete in pain, growth spurts, even not-great material. And considering all those struggles, they still have medaled at all but one regular GP event (i.e. non-GPF events), made the GPF twice, never get off the Nationals podium and remain solidly in the top 6-9 in the world (and probably could sneak into the top 5 or higher this year).

Honestly if they quit now, they really don't have a lot to be ashamed of. People act like that World Bronze was something to regret because of what happened, but correlation =/= causation. All that stuff might have happened even if they didn't win the bronze.

I'm glad they didn't give up (as pointed out, they did consider walking away after last season). We wouldn't have seen that fantastic Paso, for what that's worth.

I had posted a link to this Scott Adams (of Dilbert comic fame) essay elsewhere and listening to the Shibutanis talk about their career, certain points really resonated with me, regarding them. This quote, I think applies to the Shibs:

As for you, I'd like to think that reading this will set you on the path of your own magnificent screw-ups and cavernous disappointments. You're welcome! And if I forgot to mention it earlier, that's exactly where you want to be: steeped to your eyebrows in failure.

It's a good place to be because failure is where success likes to hide in plain sight. Everything you want out of life is in that huge, bubbling vat of failure. The trick is to get the good stuff out.

And I hope they do.

 

[Lota]

The Sbibutanis' EX this year is absolutely beautuful as well!

 

[TMC]

He's Alexander Svinin. He coaches S/B along with Irina Zhuk, the lady in the K&C. They used to skate together.

They're also married to each other. So TMC's mom has competition

Thank you guys! I'll let her know.

She's talking about knitting him woollen socks now, I can't cope

 

[viennaskater]

People are tired of clowns in ice dancing.

Really?? How do you know? I for one am not.

 

[TarAncalime]

I think they'll go back to modern music next year. I've read some of their interviews and they said that they wanted to do something out of their comfort zone this season. Actually, both of their programs this year are out of their comfort zone, which is incredible considering their success with them. So, while it was not stated explicitly, I do think they'll be skating to something much different next year.

By the way, for those who don't know, their FD was based on the beautiful pas de deux from the ballet Le Parc: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUaMJ_xGK9o

Absolutely agree with you. After the GPF I posted something regarding about Le Parc in the P/C fanfest ;-). I am also of the opinion that Dubreil/Lauzon joined with Romain Hagenauer last year for exactly that reason, to get out of their own comfort zone as coaches, because Hagenauer really has some ideas about modernity and edge if you look at P/C FDs from the last two years with Woodkid "Iron" and the Pink Floyd FD (2012). The videos are all on YouTube. Joining their resources as coaches (not only pooling ice dance students) makes you more versatile! Well, we will see....for the time being I will continue to watch their FD every time and think...my, what a master piece ;-)

I noticed that since Spilband/Zueva have split as coaches, there is a lot of movement in the international coaches' scene.......IMO a good thing, the ISU rules and judges (they never seem to get what Nelli&Alex are doing :-() are difficult to understand and follow as they are often enough......and I personally will ask an ice dancing judge I know personally when she is back from Stockholm as she is a coach for adult skating as well why that is...it never can hurt to ask ;-)

 

[whatif]

I hope P/C will go all Zhigansina/Gazhi on us next season. Please!!!!

 

[Big Deal]

I hope P/C will go all Zhigansina/Gazhi on us next season. Please!!!!

So, they cannot do that, because unless the Germans they have an immaculate technique skill!!

I can't understand all the worries about Papadakis/Cizeron. What they performed is completely unique and new.
No one in the field did anything they have done, even if one of the couples has danced to the exactly same music last night.

With this ability you can dance latin dance, Bejart ballett, Swing, Give, Waltz, a grotesc modern dance, Cavalleria Rusticana, Classical ballett, a Sylvie Guillem kind of choreography, whatever you want. I am excited.

P.S. It was first time since Virtue/Moir Adaggietto in 2010 and (in some other way) their Carmen in 2013. I became emotionally moved by a free dance.

 

[alebi]

So, they cannot do that, because unless the Germans they have an immaculate technique skill!!

I can't understand all the worries about Papadakis/Cizeron. What they performed is completely unique and new.
No one in the field did anything they have done, even if one of the couples has danced to the exactly same music last night.

With this ability you can dance latin dance, Bejart ballett, Swing, Give, Waltz, a grotesc modern dance, Cavalleria Rusticana, Classical ballett, a Sylvie Guillem kind of choreography, whatever you want. I am excited.

I'm with you, they don't need to hide poorer technique with over-the-top programs and at the same time they have already shown that are perfectly able to skate to classic and modern music, always with their unique mark!

 

[Big Deal]

It's not that bad and most probably it is fun. I think they gave the max. It's just that it's such a Barbara type of program. I feel like she is not giving them something to make them stand out, or that fully suits them. It's like they are a bit anonymous. I can't figure out what kind of skaters are they, and what's their style.

p.s. I have no words for V&M.

The more time passing away the more we will appreciate the unique quality of Virtue/Moir. Their carrier was destroyed in a way by simple-minded asthetically non- affectionate judges. Sad....

 

[BlackPack]

Really?? How do you know? I for one am not.

Based on the ecstatic enthusiasm from fans, the judges' stratospheric scores for clown programs, and previous clown programs done in ice dancing, hmmm, it was a wild guess

 

[Alba]

About Nelly&Alex, I don't know if the judges gets them or not. However, my opinion about them is that being creative and innovative is great but not sufficient, if you do not have the tools to back that. Let's take their FD as an example, although I'm not a fan of the concept behind that swan lake (didn't like the original show as well) I get it. I also do appreciate the fact that they are doing something different. But that type of program, more than anything else, needs the technical ability which they do not possess. You need to be sharp, powerful, fast, good SS, in order to fully express that type of dancing/skating, and they are not. Therefore the overall result is quite mediocre, in the end.
Having said that, I think they should continue on this path, be different and stand out, precisly because they are no exceptional skaters, so they need something to be noticed. But complains about the judges in their case are not justified, IMO.
I agree with tulosai though, who said last night that they deserve more in terms of interpretation. I don't think they are lacking in that aspect.

 

[bartlebooth]

I agree with you Alba, that Z/G's technical ability is somewhat lacking. However, usually top-tier teams make very safe choices, so I can only appreciate their effort to stand out.

 

[Alba]

I agree with you Alba, that Z/G's technical ability is somewhat lacking. However, usually top-tier teams make very safe choices, so I can only appreciate their effort to stand out.

Agreed. :thumbsup:

 

[bluestar]

Has anyone a link of FD I/Z? youtube.de does not work in Germany

 

[Alba]

Has anyone a link of FD I/Z? youtube.de does not work in Germany

You mean a link other than youtube?

 

[bluestar]

yes. There are problems with GEMA and youtube. I can watch P/C, but I/Z, C/L and S/B are blocked

 

[Alba]

yes. There are problems with GEMA and youtube. I can watch P/C, but I/Z, C/L and S/B are blocked

I was checking on vimeo and dailymotion but I could find nothing. But here you can watch their program: http://news.sportbox.ru/Vidy_sporta...u_Proizvolnaja_programma_Jelena_Ilinyh/Ruslan

I think you need to install Hola though. Very easy actually and it just takes a minute.