2015 Four Continents Pairs Free Skate Feb 13 Seoul Time

[burntBREAD]

As in + and -, right? Yeah, that's peculiar indeed.

Yup, and I'm usually not particularly intrigued by GOE like this since things like 0/1 or 0/-1 GOEs are pretty common, but we're seeing stuff like 3/-1, 1/-2, etc. on the same element.

 

[ruffledgrouse]

People also complain otherwise about "Corridor Scoring".

I think the difference there is a skater can simultaneously have poor skating skills and great performance skills (Ashley Wagner, Sasha Cohen, etc.). They're different categories. But the judges should be scoring the same exact element similarly, especially since there's enumerated criteria. If the GOEs are too different on the same element, someone either didn't see it correctly or doesn't know the criteria as well as they should.

 

[peg]

Yup, and I'm usually not particularly intrigued by GOE like this since things like 0/1 or 0/-1 GOEs are pretty common, but we're seeing stuff like 3/-1, 1/-2, etc. on the same element.

Maybe some of the judges need to get their eyes checked

 

[peg]

I think the difference there is a skater can simultaneously have poor skating skills and great performance skills (Ashley Wagner, Sasha Cohen, etc.). They're different categories. But the judges should be scoring the same exact element similarly, especially since there's enumerated criteria. If the GOEs are too different on the same element, someone either didn't see it correctly or doesn't know the criteria as well as they should.

Exactly.

 

[Sandpiper]

Nobody is arguing that D/R shouldn't have won - and by a lot of points at that (consider their SP, too). Just that their PCS were high (especially compared to P/T).

I do. I'm going to boldly, madly declare that I'd have the placements:
1) Sui/Han - 2nd SP, 1st LP
2) Duhamel/Radford - 1st SP, 2nd LP
3) Peng/Zhang - 3rd SP, 4th LP (but ahead of Pang/Tong overall)

Now let the pitchforks fly... I don't really care at this point.

 

[salchowx4]

If you don't execute the min rev for each executed basic spin position in pairs spin combo, you receive no credit even if total min revs is met. Also it must all be continuous except very, very briefly when changing direction. Will have to check the vid and see what the problem is.

 

[GF2445]

If you don't execute the min rotations for each executed basic spin position in pairs spin combo, you receive no credit even if total min revs is met. Also it must all be continuous except very, very briefly when changing direction. Will have to check the vid and see what the problem is.

Well if you look at their spin, some of the positions were only 2 revs. Maybe they didn't full rotate the spins.
Also, on their first spin, their axis were sort of far apart. Not sure if they would be a reason.

 

[burntBREAD]

I do. I'm going to boldly, madly declare that I'd have the placements:
1) Sui/Han - 2nd SP, 1st LP
2) Duhamel/Radford - 1st SP, 2nd LP
3) Peng/Zhang - 3rd SP, 4th LP (but ahead of Pang/Tong overall)

Now let the pitchforks fly... I don't really care at this point.

I just want Ingo to somehow instill some of that fierceness of Aliona (and himself, those shots of him watching the program are.. intense ) into Denney/Frazier (and also to take them to a jump coach). I hope they can give this program a proper goodbye at Worlds.

 

[bj80alex]

I think I've seen it before (God knows when or where) and I think it's when they don't get low enough or don't get enough rotations. I think McLaughlin/Brubaker had an invalidated pairs spin when he accidentally lifted her off the ice. But who knows, I could be thinking of death spirals. It's late.

I remember P/T's pair spin was once invalidated two seasons ago, 2012 COC probably.

 

[burntBREAD]

Ah, someone's got the reason behind he spin invalidation:

https://twitter.com/examinerskating/status/566510683836383232

So like Jackie Wong says, it appears to be what some of you suspected - Han started the first position too late and didn't achieve the required minimum revs.

 

[Alchamei]

Ah, someone's got the reason behind he spin invalidation:

https://twitter.com/examinerskating/status/566510683836383232

So like Jackie Wong says, it appears to be what some of you suspected - Han started the first position too late and didn't achieve the required minimum revs.

Wow. That harsh...

 

[Lota]

Wow, so a quarter of a turn cost them the silver medal?

 

[Sandpiper]

Ah, someone's got the reason behind he spin invalidation:

https://twitter.com/examinerskating/status/566510683836383232

So like Jackie Wong says, it appears to be what some of you suspected - Han started the first position too late and didn't achieve the required minimum revs.

Why can't they downgrade a level in these cases? Why invalidate the whole thing?

I give up trying to understand these things... Should probably go to bed. It's too late to plan riots; I'm more likely to trip over my pitchfork on the way out the door.

 

[Skater Boy]

I do think had p and t skated relatively clean they deserved higher pcs than D and R but they didn't. They fell and struggled on a jump - far more interruptive than any problem D and R had. But I just love their classic beauty and lyricism Even in the short - though I do think he needs a stylist - he looked like a waiter in a cheap outfit in the short. You know the one in a Chinese Restaurant they do banquets - it just looks a bit off.

Oops I meant they singled a jump and it interrupts the flow ( I confused them with the other Chinese team) Yikes too late!

 

[salchowx4]

Yeah, if the requirements for change of foot aren't met, that gets you no credit as well. The rules for spins are incredibly strict.

 

[yuki]

Ah, someone's got the reason behind he spin invalidation:

https://twitter.com/examinerskating/status/566510683836383232

So like Jackie Wong says, it appears to be what some of you suspected - Han started the first position too late and didn't achieve the required minimum revs.

http://static.isu.org/media/156263/tphandbook_pairskating_2014-15.pdf (pg. 11)

To be considered, a change of foot in a spin requires at least three (3) revolutions before and after the change (these revolutions can be in any positions, including non-basic positions). If there are not three (3) revolutions before or after the change, the change will not be counted.

If there is no change of foot or no change of position by one or both partners, the spin will be called a “Pair Spin Combination no Value“ in Short Program and a “Pair Spin” in Free Skating (wrong element – no value as well(but occupies a box).

 

[Skater Boy]

I do. I'm going to boldly, madly declare that I'd have the placements:
1) Sui/Han - 2nd SP, 1st LP
2) Duhamel/Radford - 1st SP, 2nd LP
3) Peng/Zhang - 3rd SP, 4th LP (but ahead of Pang/Tong overall)

Now let the pitchforks fly... I don't really care at this point.

Oh Sandpiper don't be so melodramatic lol. You are entitled to your opinion and I can see where you are coming from except of course the TES judging part minus the GOE issues might be a problem with Sui and Han winning.

 

[matmuh]

wow pant and tong! it was magical, not even thinking about their TES and highest GOE total even with 2 negative goe elements, i am enchanted really, their performance was amazing, i almost cried, music selection is genius i think, even megan was crying (i can bet i saw some tears ) i read one of users said their program was empty, i dont think it was, inbetween movements, pang slipping away after their spiral(?), tong trying to hold her so she wouldnt , it was emotional , placement of elements are good too (in my opinion of course), i just loved it!! i think its my favourite pairs program this year, wish they competed at GPS too so i could enjoy it more

really sad about sui and han though, i would have them in 2nd place and pang/tong bronze still. i hope they can bring it more at worlds, they are my fave chinese pair

 

[micnow]

How can someone with no clean SBS jump ( or SBS jump combination) , no quad twist and easier throws (I mean Pang/Tong) beat Sui/Han with superb throws, a quad twist and a very beautiful toe-loep combination. It is so unjust. I hate this judging. Even if S/H's pair combination spin was called invalid, this is ridiculuos. What shoud S/H do to beat P/T with 3 major mistakes in SBS jumps (short and free together)? Nothing! It will simply not happen with this judging. They have to wait till P/T retire. Damn. I hate figure skating judging and placing.

 

[Sandpiper]

Oh Sandpiper don't be so melodramatic lol. You are entitled to your opinion and I can see where you are coming from except of course the TES judging part minus the GOE issues might be a problem with Sui and Han winning.

I thought D/R's GOE (and thus, TES) were inflated across both programs. And S/H were lowballed in PCS for their SP. Arguably for their LP as well--I still have huge issues with the program, but they delivered the cleanest skate.

Anyway, it's just one of those things where I just have a gut reaction of, "This is wrong." Probably I'm crazy, and D/R deserve to win according to the rules, rules, rules. But once in a while a skate, result, and event incites a visceral reaction. And... this is why we love skating. This is why it's magical. That's my attempt at a positive takeaway, regardless of the results.