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Extended lifts, time violations....don't remember if any of it related to falls or not.
2015 Rostelecom Cup Ice Dance FD
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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Extended lifts, time violations....don't remember if any of it related to falls or not.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2012
And (let me say that without bitterness, just as I see it from the inside) soooo stereotypical
What's stereotyüpical are those deeply in love types. She in gauzy nightie, rubbing bodies, brushing lips....please...enough all ready
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
This is definitely a minority opinion but after seeing the performances, I would not mind any of the three winning (W/P, C/L, and S/K) as they are, competitively, all neck and neck with each other. Choreographically, the dances are too busy for my taste - I guess the desire to raise technically these programs, the programs become sort of convoluted but I must admit I enjoyed, athletically, the performances. Ice-dancing is a sport so the emphasis is more on the athletic value.
I'd say, in terms of choreography Marina Zueva does it with clear, coherent, and cohesive concept. I guess, it helps that the musical theme is so easily visualized. W/P's too abstract, and C/L - just plain entertaining _ the choreographer using the Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire approach. The Grand Prix will be so thrilling seeing how all the dances are so varied and technically chaotic and challenging.
I'd say, in terms of choreography Marina Zueva does it with clear, coherent, and cohesive concept. I guess, it helps that the musical theme is so easily visualized. W/P's too abstract, and C/L - just plain entertaining _ the choreographer using the Ginger Rogers and Fred Astaire approach. The Grand Prix will be so thrilling seeing how all the dances are so varied and technically chaotic and challenging.
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Top 4 FD
Weaver Poje
Well, the Canadians have done two major changes to their free dance. As example, the straight line is different, he now goes backwards and flicks her over, instead of lifting her up high while going backwards. Very interesting there was the entry, with both skaters on a single leg, very hard to find the balance there. The new version, however, cost them a level, I would honestly like to know why they changed it and what the reason was for the loss. Going to research there a bit, maybe I can get a quote, if so I will get back to you folks.
Anyways, try the new lift with a pillow at home, you will get an idea of how tough it is.
Another change was the final pose, but it was just a minor change. They stand much closer now, instead of side by side, holding hands.
As for the skating, personally to me they had the best edges and I really like the way she skates.
I still believe Madison is the best dancer of all ladies, but what I like about Kaitlyn are her positions, they look so ace. Like a super model she is striking a pose, really a gorgeous lady she is, it all looks so amazing. She has wonderful arms, so elegant.
But don´t forget Andrew here, as mentioned he is always trying to go for that single leg, you can also see this at the curve lift and I love how calm and easy some of their elements look like. It seems to be no problem at all, the entry´s are clean and smooth and it is a constant movement, all linked together beautifully. No offense to any of the other couples here, but what Weaver Poje and Chock Bates do, is just a level of it´s own in regards of smooth skating. From the start until the end, it is one program with many different phrases all combined and linked without any gaps.
Anna & Luca
In my opinion, these two improved a lot in regards of smoothness over the years and their big plus is how they sell a performance. If you watch very closely, then you will see how Luca presents Anna all the time, he is proud to have such a beautiful lady on his side and Anna, she is always flirting with us.
They are so balanced on the ice, it´s not only the beautiful girl and the "guy who lifts her", no there is a dance couple, both strong and visible – just wonderful!
Wonderful is also the confidence they show, as example the twizzles, if you take a good look then you will see how they look to the judges, confident and sure to have nailed it. This is so important for a skater, never leave any doubts on your performance.
Besides the more serious and passionate performances before, they brought the fun and I liked it. At times, having a more fun program without too many messages, can be easier than all the Drama that we saw at Frida for instance.
Nikita & Victoria
In my opinion, they get better with every skate and I said this before, Victoria fits so lovely to Nikita – they skate those passionate programs and it never looks like a role, so good are they in character and I like the variation they bring to the table.
Nikita is an amazing dancer, he never got the credit he deserved when still skating with Elena, but now he can show how good he really is.
Important to say is, that of course Victoria is the one in the spotlight, but she is not so dominant and "in your face" so to speak. It seems to be a more natural relationship on the ice, with her in the focus, but him accompanying her and not hiding at all.
These two for me, have wonderful knee work, its smooth and powerful, I loved how they came out of their straight line, it looked so easy, that little turn at the end, but also the entries are so soft and smooth, no hick ups or anything. Besides Elena & Ruslan, these two were the only who got their levels, yet their execution was better, smoother and looked more natural to me.
Great job!
But also great were,
Charlene & Marco who skated to Schindler's list and I said this in one of my other reviews before, how they perform is honestly, a bit like watching a movie. Her expression, it is fabulous! At the start, when she falls back and he is there – what a wonderful opener that says so much about the time back then and how important trust was for people. It could decide about life and death, a wonderful element, great job there by Barbara and Corrado.
Their skate shows a very strong relationship, together they overcome those dark days. But it´s not just about the story, they have the right elements to express it as well. I really love the rotational lift at the end, she "sits" there – it looks so amazing and has such a big message. I am honestly very happy about their 4th place, it was right to set them there. They link the elements well, nice to see during the transition to their pair spin and they sell what they skate and they have good technique too.
I also want to send out a warm hug to Ksenia and Kirill, get well soon!
Thanks to all the great dancers, a very enjoyable afternoon it was.
Weaver Poje
Well, the Canadians have done two major changes to their free dance. As example, the straight line is different, he now goes backwards and flicks her over, instead of lifting her up high while going backwards. Very interesting there was the entry, with both skaters on a single leg, very hard to find the balance there. The new version, however, cost them a level, I would honestly like to know why they changed it and what the reason was for the loss. Going to research there a bit, maybe I can get a quote, if so I will get back to you folks.
Anyways, try the new lift with a pillow at home, you will get an idea of how tough it is.
Another change was the final pose, but it was just a minor change. They stand much closer now, instead of side by side, holding hands.
As for the skating, personally to me they had the best edges and I really like the way she skates.
I still believe Madison is the best dancer of all ladies, but what I like about Kaitlyn are her positions, they look so ace. Like a super model she is striking a pose, really a gorgeous lady she is, it all looks so amazing. She has wonderful arms, so elegant.
But don´t forget Andrew here, as mentioned he is always trying to go for that single leg, you can also see this at the curve lift and I love how calm and easy some of their elements look like. It seems to be no problem at all, the entry´s are clean and smooth and it is a constant movement, all linked together beautifully. No offense to any of the other couples here, but what Weaver Poje and Chock Bates do, is just a level of it´s own in regards of smooth skating. From the start until the end, it is one program with many different phrases all combined and linked without any gaps.
Anna & Luca
In my opinion, these two improved a lot in regards of smoothness over the years and their big plus is how they sell a performance. If you watch very closely, then you will see how Luca presents Anna all the time, he is proud to have such a beautiful lady on his side and Anna, she is always flirting with us.
They are so balanced on the ice, it´s not only the beautiful girl and the "guy who lifts her", no there is a dance couple, both strong and visible – just wonderful!
Wonderful is also the confidence they show, as example the twizzles, if you take a good look then you will see how they look to the judges, confident and sure to have nailed it. This is so important for a skater, never leave any doubts on your performance.
Besides the more serious and passionate performances before, they brought the fun and I liked it. At times, having a more fun program without too many messages, can be easier than all the Drama that we saw at Frida for instance.
Nikita & Victoria
In my opinion, they get better with every skate and I said this before, Victoria fits so lovely to Nikita – they skate those passionate programs and it never looks like a role, so good are they in character and I like the variation they bring to the table.
Nikita is an amazing dancer, he never got the credit he deserved when still skating with Elena, but now he can show how good he really is.
Important to say is, that of course Victoria is the one in the spotlight, but she is not so dominant and "in your face" so to speak. It seems to be a more natural relationship on the ice, with her in the focus, but him accompanying her and not hiding at all.
These two for me, have wonderful knee work, its smooth and powerful, I loved how they came out of their straight line, it looked so easy, that little turn at the end, but also the entries are so soft and smooth, no hick ups or anything. Besides Elena & Ruslan, these two were the only who got their levels, yet their execution was better, smoother and looked more natural to me.
Great job!
But also great were,
Charlene & Marco who skated to Schindler's list and I said this in one of my other reviews before, how they perform is honestly, a bit like watching a movie. Her expression, it is fabulous! At the start, when she falls back and he is there – what a wonderful opener that says so much about the time back then and how important trust was for people. It could decide about life and death, a wonderful element, great job there by Barbara and Corrado.
Their skate shows a very strong relationship, together they overcome those dark days. But it´s not just about the story, they have the right elements to express it as well. I really love the rotational lift at the end, she "sits" there – it looks so amazing and has such a big message. I am honestly very happy about their 4th place, it was right to set them there. They link the elements well, nice to see during the transition to their pair spin and they sell what they skate and they have good technique too.
I also want to send out a warm hug to Ksenia and Kirill, get well soon!
Thanks to all the great dancers, a very enjoyable afternoon it was.
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- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
Pojé, Katsalapov & Lannotte in the GP final, soo much hotness :dance2::yes2::luv17:
Do they even LET you compete if you aren't at a certain level of hotness? Not that I'm complaining, mind you. Just wondering...
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- Joined
- Nov 12, 2012
Pojé, Katsalapov & Lannotte in the GP final, soo much hotness :dance2::yes2:
not so much on Katsalapov (too boyish for my weird tastes) BUT with also Javier on board it will be SUAVE OVERLOAD again <yassss>
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2010
I also want to send a warm hug to Ksenia & Kirill, especially to Kirill as it is his birthday today (and also he too is hot
:luv17: )Please let it be a minor injury, they have to be at Nationals.
the marks for Sinitsina and Katsalapov were outrageous she is so bad technically, that program has zero coreography just bocelli music to a series of technical elements, i guess having a russian on the tech panel helps. The Italians again Anna is a weak technical skater barely does anything with her feet i can`t believe she`s a world champion.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2010
Well, I wouldn't go quite that far, but S/K's program is certainly lacking in complexity and involves a huge amount of hand to hand skating, which is easier and makes is easier to create and maintain speed — this is relevant because their speed is one of the more impressive things about them this season. But these distinctions don't seem to be recognized at all by the judges, which is, I think, unfair to other teams who are trying more technically demanding material.
As for the Italians, I'm puzzled as to why their notable lack of speed compared to all of the other top teams doesn't seem to be taken into account in their scores. Because it is really evident, even on television, which means it must be even more so in the arena.
On another note, I'm curious to know why W/P changed their first lift from the really "wow" one where he lifts her high while skating backwards to the current one that is a flip over the back. On first impression, the new one doesn't have the same immediate impact that the other one did, and they didn't seem to be having technical difficulties with it or anything.
Wonderful from W/P. Artistically mature. Standing O from me.
Honourable mention to I/Z, unexpectedly. She is a wonderful performer, also an artistic soul.
I also watched S/K and C/L, who were also both quite good, each in their own way. But for me W/P takes this easily.
Honourable mention to I/Z, unexpectedly. She is a wonderful performer, also an artistic soul.
I also watched S/K and C/L, who were also both quite good, each in their own way. But for me W/P takes this easily.
I thought this was a well skated and entertaining event! The judging and placements were reasonable as well IMO. Okay, you can argue that the 103 for S/K was on the high side, but since it didn't change anything about the standings, I didn't think it was a big deal. What they produced warranted a score of 100 or 101 easily and they would have gotten that at other GPs as well, so skating at home added one or two points, whatever. It shouldn't be done, but we know it's done and not only in Russia.
W/P have an interesting FD, though I like the second part better than the first. The music mash-up in the first part strikes me as a bit distracting. I find C/L very entertaining and it's nice that not everyone is doing dramz! and passion, but that it's something we've seen from them before might be a bit of a drawback perhaps? I love the commitment S/K bring to this FD, they really love skating it and it shows.
As for the more open/more speed vs. more transitions discussion? As a big fan of Delobel/Schoenfelder I regret to inform you that it was always that way in the judging. Year after year D/S came up with complex programs filled with transitions, only to be punished when they made slight mistakes and not appreciated much for their difficulty. Then when arguably they had a rather more open FD (which I adored, one of my fave programs ever), they promptly became World Champions with it. D/W and V/M and Shpilband/Zueva were criticized for constructing programs heavy on elements and light on transitions. Did it bother the judges? No, it did not, they got massive technical scores anyway.
And I will say, what S/K do, they do very, very well. I'm sure seeing it live is super impressive, so of course the judges are impressed. They've traditionally always been impressed with speed, power and pretty positions. The people who have seen them live report that when they are on, they skate very fast, with deep edges and make almost no sound across the ice. When they go into that first step sequence in the FD, they start with that deep edge and then stress the edgework again and again throughout it. Judges go for that stuff, they've always gone for that stuff. For someone to explain the quality of what S/K are doing, listen to Nicky Slater on British Eurosport. He acknowledges that S/K aren't reinventing the wheel with the FD, he acknowledges that it's a bit on the open side (though I think there's also exaggeration about how open it is from corners who don't like them anyway...). But then he goes on about their speed, how much power they have, yet they make it look effortless, their knee-bend and sweep across the ice. The elegant, impactful way they move, their connection to each other, how well they interpret the music and make it count. That they do difficult elements (particularly lifts), but without making them overly showy to distract from the overall picture. I think his perspective is one that many of the judges might be sharing. Of course they will need to come up with more complex programs in the coming seasons, but for now what they have suits them and they perform it very well IMO.
W/P have an interesting FD, though I like the second part better than the first. The music mash-up in the first part strikes me as a bit distracting. I find C/L very entertaining and it's nice that not everyone is doing dramz! and passion, but that it's something we've seen from them before might be a bit of a drawback perhaps? I love the commitment S/K bring to this FD, they really love skating it and it shows.
As for the more open/more speed vs. more transitions discussion? As a big fan of Delobel/Schoenfelder I regret to inform you that it was always that way in the judging. Year after year D/S came up with complex programs filled with transitions, only to be punished when they made slight mistakes and not appreciated much for their difficulty. Then when arguably they had a rather more open FD (which I adored, one of my fave programs ever), they promptly became World Champions with it. D/W and V/M and Shpilband/Zueva were criticized for constructing programs heavy on elements and light on transitions. Did it bother the judges? No, it did not, they got massive technical scores anyway.
And I will say, what S/K do, they do very, very well. I'm sure seeing it live is super impressive, so of course the judges are impressed. They've traditionally always been impressed with speed, power and pretty positions. The people who have seen them live report that when they are on, they skate very fast, with deep edges and make almost no sound across the ice. When they go into that first step sequence in the FD, they start with that deep edge and then stress the edgework again and again throughout it. Judges go for that stuff, they've always gone for that stuff. For someone to explain the quality of what S/K are doing, listen to Nicky Slater on British Eurosport. He acknowledges that S/K aren't reinventing the wheel with the FD, he acknowledges that it's a bit on the open side (though I think there's also exaggeration about how open it is from corners who don't like them anyway...). But then he goes on about their speed, how much power they have, yet they make it look effortless, their knee-bend and sweep across the ice. The elegant, impactful way they move, their connection to each other, how well they interpret the music and make it count. That they do difficult elements (particularly lifts), but without making them overly showy to distract from the overall picture. I think his perspective is one that many of the judges might be sharing. Of course they will need to come up with more complex programs in the coming seasons, but for now what they have suits them and they perform it very well IMO.
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- Joined
- Aug 1, 2011
So did Swan Lake. Same hand to hand skating, same lack of difficulty in the steps. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Look, if this were still the 6.0 era, I would be raving about them. But it isn't. Still, you would never know from the judging...
I think you just answered your confusion. G&F are getting credit for their added complexity & intricacy this season, despite their lack of speed. S&K are getting credit for speed, despite some lack of complexity. It's about balance. And it does leave room for unpredictability within the results this season. G&F are also, IMO, getting a lot of credit for the originality within their programs. Skills that are both new for them and new within the sport--something I genuinely appreciate. Barbara has done very well by this team this year. G&F also really sell their SD to the crowd. It had the audience clapping and stood out at SC among all the softer waltz numbers, while still staying true to the rhythm and style requested. They are setting themselves up very well to finish in the top ten.
The scores for S/K were a shameful insult to the sport. Their performances were uninspiring and had no creative content and riddled with mistakes. Katsalapov was quite aware of this for both the SD and FD. They skated almost as if they knew their place was secure if they remained upright. Even with I/Z's fall they were infinitely more impressive this weekend. When you count the number of balance checks and dirty turns made by these two, how could they have almost the same score as W/P? The GOE and PCS do not make sense. The dishonest scoring was clearly visible and their plans will fail ultimately.
I wouldn't call it a shameful insult to the sport. S/K are showing off their qualities, I cannot blame them for that (they have to get results this season!) and I wouldn't blame the judges for recognizing them (with the help from Marina Z.
). They're pretty, flashy and speedy. And this season they're hitting the levels. But I also think they have already reached their scoring potential at COR. There're only so many points you can get out of that kind of programs.Similar threads
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