2016 JGP Mordovia Ice Dance FD | Page 3 | Golden Skate

2016 JGP Mordovia Ice Dance FD

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Loboda/Drozd were on the class of their own here. Ice coverage, speed, power, long sharp curves and very nice lines.

I just can't help it but I LOVE it when dancers use dance jumps into their first set of twizzles, I know because of my own experience how difficult it is, and they're doing 3rd set of twizzles too, which gives them two group C features :dbana: I think they're the only ones on junior field who do it. And this +3 worthy spin, wow! Simply amazing. Straight line lift is also drool worthy, I wish they would change the descend tho, it's too quick. They skating is still kinda rough around the edges, but hopefully they'll get there at jWorlds. So far, I don't see a team who can snatch medal from them (except McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons, of course) if they'll not make serious mistakes. They look very mature.

Anthony and Christina... well, they skated better than at their last event, but the elements were weaker this time. I don't like how much time Anthony needs to actually get a hold of his blade on twizzles, he was on the edge of half-rotation in the first event (IMO, there was actually more than 1/2 rotation, but tech panel didn't reduce level by 1), he actually gripped it slightly sooner this time (between 1/4 and 1/2 rotation), but still later than Christina did. They need to work on that, because they don't need such mistake to happen at Worlds or GPF, for example. Also, Anthony clearly stopped his rotational movement when Christina changed her pose, which means level should be reduced by 1. Here, look at his feet: https://youtu.be/kwSI7YDPJDA?t=2m46s Senior teams constantly got dinged for that even when it's less obvious, I don't know why Carreira/Ponomarenko were forgiven. But still, like I said, their overall skating was better. I wish Christina glided as good as him, they still have time. Their potential is enormous, IMO.
 
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Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
They are stars, much much better than Mcnamara / Carpenter and the Parsons...

You're reaching, they're NOT better than McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons :slink:

Potentially? Probably, although arguable. But now? No way.
 

sneakers

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
You're reaching, they're NOT better than McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons :slink:

Potentially? Probably, although arguable. But now? No way.

even now they have all the good basics, their skating skills alone and deep edges are above M/C and Parsons
they are so light on the ice wow, C/P will be a future in ID, no doubt....
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Loboda/Drozd were on the class of their own here. Ice coverage, speed, power, long sharp curves and very nice lines.

I just can't help it but I LOVE it when dancers use dance jumps into their first set of twizzles, I know because of my own experience how difficult it is, and they're doing 3rd set of twizzles too, which gives them two group C features :dbana: I think they're the only ones on junior field who do it. And this +3 worthy spin, wow! Simply amazing. Straight line lift is also drool worthy, I wish they would change the descend tho, it's too quick. They skating is still kinda rough around the edges, but hopefully they'll get there at jWorlds. So far, I don't see a team who can snatch medal from them (except McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons, of course) if they'll not make serious mistakes. They look very mature.

Anthony and Christina... well, they skated better than at their last event, but the elements were weaker this time. I don't like how much time Anthony needs to actually get a hold of his blade on twizzles, he was on the edge of half-rotation in the first event (IMO, there was actually more than 1/2 rotation, but tech panel didn't reduce level by 1), he actually gripped it slightly sooner this time (between 1/4 and 1/2 rotation), but still later than Christina did. They need to work on that, because they don't need such mistake to happen at Worlds or GPF, for example. Also, Anthony clearly stopped his rotational movement when Christina changed her pose, which means level should be reduced by 1. Here, look at his feet: https://youtu.be/kwSI7YDPJDA?t=2m46s Senior teams constantly got dinged for that even when it's less obvious, I don't know why Carreira/Ponomarenko were forgiven. But still, like I said, their overall skating was better. I wish Christina glided as good as him, they still have time. Their potential is enormous, IMO.

with C/P, of course, I've loved them since their jgp debut, so I'm bias, lol, but a few critiques I do have are that their body lines don't seem to match that well and it may be perhaps Christina has long legs, so if Anthony grows a few inches taller to compensate, maybe they will have better unison.....my second critique is Christina's lack of a knee bend at times....just wish she dug into the ice deeper. To be fair, they've only been skating for a few years together, but I agree, they have enormous potential.
 

topaz emerald

Match Penalty
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
They are stars, much much better than Mcnamara / Carpenter and the Parsons...

I have to agree....Mcnamara and Carpenter have speed and power over C/P, but for me, they are really lacking in performance. I like the Parsons much better than M/C, but I find brother/sister partnerships hard to watch.
 

Abraxis12345

Final Flight
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Loboda and Drozd were not convincing. Even with the new, hip French choreographer, they still look outdated.
 

estla

Rinkside
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Call me old-fashioned, but I think L/D's FD is powerful and beautiful. Alla still needs to improve her ss though.
 

cathlen

Team Gorgeous Cacti!
Record Breaker
Joined
May 2, 2015
Country
Poland
If I was younger, I'd totally have a crush on Pavel Drozd :luv17:
 

Axelsk8r

Rinkside
Joined
Oct 4, 2014
Loboda/Drozd were on the class of their own here. Ice coverage, speed, power, long sharp curves and very nice lines.

I just can't help it but I LOVE it when dancers use dance jumps into their first set of twizzles, I know because of my own experience how difficult it is, and they're doing 3rd set of twizzles too, which gives them two group C features :dbana: I think they're the only ones on junior field who do it. And this +3 worthy spin, wow! Simply amazing. Straight line lift is also drool worthy, I wish they would change the descend tho, it's too quick. They skating is still kinda rough around the edges, but hopefully they'll get there at jWorlds. So far, I don't see a team who can snatch medal from them (except McNamara/Carpenter and Parsons, of course) if they'll not make serious mistakes. They look very mature.

Anthony and Christina... well, they skated better than at their last event, but the elements were weaker this time. I don't like how much time Anthony needs to actually get a hold of his blade on twizzles, he was on the edge of half-rotation in the first event (IMO, there was actually more than 1/2 rotation, but tech panel didn't reduce level by 1), he actually gripped it slightly sooner this time (between 1/4 and 1/2 rotation), but still later than Christina did. They need to work on that, because they don't need such mistake to happen at Worlds or GPF, for example. Also, Anthony clearly stopped his rotational movement when Christina changed her pose, which means level should be reduced by 1. Here, look at his feet: https://youtu.be/kwSI7YDPJDA?t=2m46s Senior teams constantly got dinged for that even when it's less obvious, I don't know why Carreira/Ponomarenko were forgiven. But still, like I said, their overall skating was better. I wish Christina glided as good as him, they still have time. Their potential is enormous, IMO.
Good analysis here, you forgot to analyze L/D footwork ...
They're making a huge looping in that footwork, no deductions were given there either!
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Good analysis here, you forgot to analyze L/D footwork ...
They're making a huge looping in that footwork, no deductions were given there either!

You mean their diagonal step sequence, right? The diagonal step sequence performed by Loboda/Drozd is the second step sequence performed in their FD, which means it's a step sequence of Style B. This season one retrogression is permitted during Style B step sequence and narrow loop is an acceptable shape of retrogression. I did not give it any attention at first, thanks for pointing this out.

It's very hard to see the shape of the loop Loboda/Drozd executed because camera is moving with them and it's too zoomed on them (here for those who's interested: https://youtu.be/_mcfDVOXFPw?t=3m34s), so I'm not gonna assume anything - everyone can watch and see for themselves. However, if they executed regular round loop it should be considered by judges as Not Permitted Element, which means each judge should reduce their final GOE for the element by 2 grades. And since the lowest GOE for their DiSt is +1 and average is +2, I think it's safe to say that all the judges decided that it was not a regular round loop.

What I found more interesting is that 1 of 8 judges (or it was referee) pressed a button for 'Music requirements violation' for Loboda/Drozd in the FD. And one for 'Violation of choreography restrictions' for Carreira/Ponomarenko. What was that?
 
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dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
Although I have not got a copy of the ISU Ice Dance Rhythms 1995 booklet, I suspect the judge's objection is to the swing section of Loboda/Drozd. Granted there are several allowed types of swing, but this does not sound like any of them very much. However, the video is so out of synch with the audio in the youtube vid that I hesitate to be very definitive about that.

Given that the judge also dinged Carreira/Ponomarenko, I suspect he/she is just very tough on these kinds of violations.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Although I have not got a copy of the ISU Ice Dance Rhythms 1995 booklet, I suspect the judge's objection is to the swing section of Loboda/Drozd. Granted there are several allowed types of swing, but this does not sound like any of them very much. However, the video is so out of synch with the audio in the youtube vid that I hesitate to be very definitive about that.

Given that the judge also dinged Carreira/Ponomarenko, I suspect he/she is just very tough on these kinds of violations.

But it was for their FREE DANCES, no objections on SDs. That's why I'm surprised. Their swing seemed okay.

Looking at the protocols I understand that it was really tough judging panel: Abdedou/Antunes from France got 3 judges who voted for 'Music requirements violation' and one for 'Violation of choreography restrictions'. In free dance! :dbana: Maybe the referee is to blame here, it is kinda unusual. :shocked:
 

dorispulaski

Wicked Yankee Girl
Joined
Jul 26, 2003
Country
United-States
The Style B Step Sequence gets a call for choreographic penalty if there is a stop or an improper retrogression or loop. (C&P problem, perhaps?)

Chances are the music call is for not having a clear beat.(L&D)? The audio quality of the vids is so bad from Saransk jgp, who can say?

There are Q&As about both in this year's tech manual, a fairly clear sign that judges are supposed to be tougher on these concerns than they have been in the past.
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
The Style B Step Sequence gets a call for choreographic penalty if there is a stop or an improper retrogression or loop. (C&P problem, perhaps?)

Improper retrogression, full stops or round loop in a Step Sequence of Style B do not fall under 'Violation of choreography restrictions' penalty this season, these mistakes should be considered as Not Permitted Element and lead to GOE deduction only (2 grades). Besides, Carreira/Ponomarenko didn't include retrogression of any shape or form (including loop) in their Diagonal Step Sequence, there was also no full stops. So it's obviously not the case.

They got their call for separation of one measure of music before the twizzles, here: https://youtu.be/kwSI7YDPJDA?t=2m19s The separation is too long.
Look how Loboda/Drozd do it, here: https://youtu.be/_mcfDVOXFPw?t=1m4s Fast and right into the Twizzles.

According to ISU rules any separation to prepare for the twizzles or Not Touching Step Sequence (in SD) is not permitted. Separating longer than necessary before the Not Touching Step Sequence or the Set of Sequential Twizzles (or taking longer than necessary after the element to resume skating in hold) constitutes a violation of choreography restrictions, subject to a deduction by Judges and Referee.

Chances are the music call is for not having a clear beat.(L&D)? The audio quality of the vids is so bad from Saransk jgp, who can say?

There are Q&As about both in this year's tech manual, a fairly clear sign that judges are supposed to be tougher on these concerns than they have been in the past.

I can hear clear beat in Loboda/Drozd music, but you're right, the quality of vids is pretty bad, so it's hard to say for sure.
 
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Sam-Skwantch

“I solemnly swear I’m up to no good”
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Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Country
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I had to look up the word retrogression :eek::

Even armed with that knowledge I can barely follow a discussion about the fine details of ice dance judging. :hopelessness:
 

Snow63

Pray one day we'll open our eyes.
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
I had to look up the word retrogression :eek::

Even armed with that knowledge I can barely follow a discussion about the fine details of ice dance judging. :hopelessness:

At least you're following it, right? Because I thought that it's only I and Doris are talking to each other here :biggrin:
 
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