2016 Nebelhorn Free Dance

[Snow63]

This can be if skaters have a "wrong" step sequence / pattern. So for instance, skaters are supposed to perform it in one area on the ice and if they leave that area, the refree will call it. Keep in mind though, they need a 5+ voting, so a 1 of 8 is not counting. The judges have to press "yes" or "no" so to speak, if not enough press the buttons, then no harm is done.

Sorry for the simplistic explanation, I am sure an expert could do better.

Not quite correct. Pattern/placement incorrect or incomplete results in GOE reduction only (in FD).

 

[Nathan13]

They're all on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/diodio0013plus

To be honest, the standout free dance for me so far is from the Parsons. bligatory whining about how they should have moved up to seniors:

Will they at least compete in seniors at US Nationals? Like Vincent and Nathan did last year, even though they were Juniors? I really want to see how they stack up against the top 5 US Teams...

 

[Astrid56]

I watched again the Free Dances of the top three, I have a feeling the placements will change in the GP series. I think, C/B will go far with their FD - intricate choreography and the technical elements are well-placed. They have just to skate it with more conviction and appropriate speeds in the different sections of the program. I love the risks they took - so different from the usual. The Canadians have to amp their interpretation of the music. As to C/L's, lovely and charming program but they have to be careful to keep the energy and the dynamics or this will simply the repeat what they had in the previous season.

 

[Heleng]

I just watched Chock/Bates' "Under Pressure" FD on YT. The thing I love most about the song is that it's a slow build and it just explodes in the end and then calms back down. I feel like the way the song was edited for this FD took a lot of the power away from the song. I also think there's a weird disconnect with the music and choreography. The moves are difficult and like all C/B, they make you see the difficulty and how much they're doing, but I just didn't feel anything. They'll probably work throughout the season to perfect the tone and by the latter half of the season, they may finally get it right, much like how people were coming around to their Rach FD by 4CC and Worlds. They have some work to do to clean up a lot of the moves they were doing as a lot of it was obviously done with a lot of effort. Also, for Chris Dean choreography, it seems very similar to Igor's choreography. In the pre-COP days, Chris Dean's vision and concepts were usually at the forefront, but with this dance, I'm not sure what the concept or theme is other than Madison smiling and having her mouth wide open during the high points of the music.

As of right now, I prefer their SD.

As usual, I think you are spot on! I don't think their program or music cuts made effective use of the dramatic rise and fall and tension in the song.

 

[Jammers]

Well don't forget, being National Champs didn't prevent them from losing to C/L at Cup of China last season. C/L are always spoilers. Heck their 2014 World title was due to them being more spoilers than anything else. They even beat P/C in the SD at Euros. Yes P/C were coming back from a concussion, but nobody else beat them.

C/L's World title was all about D/W and V/M not being there. As it is a lot of people thought they didn't deserve the title over P/B or W/P.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I never thought I would ever say this, but C/L are fast turning into a refrigerator break. It's not like I'm gonna miss something I haven't seen before.

Which is a shame because I really like them, But charm repeated is less than charming.

Know what I mean?

 

[Snow63]

I never thought I would ever say this, but C/L are fast turning into a refrigerator break. It's not like I'm gonna miss something I haven't seen before.

Which is a shame because I really like them, But charm repeated is less than charming.

Know what I mean?

Even I have to admit that there's a lot of truth to this. And this free dance is especially boring and recycled

 

[nocturnalis]

Can't believe i'm saying this, but C/L should have stuck with Marina. Even if she stuck them in the lovey-dovey box, it would have been refreshing because they are not challenging themselves at all.

 

[Heleng]

They're all on YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/user/diodio0013plus

To be honest, the standout free dance for me so far is from the Parsons. bligatory whining about how they should have moved up to seniors:

Yay, love the Parsons! OT: Not to take anything away from M/C, who have gotten more attention, but I saw both teams perform at a fundraiser in MD last season and the Parsons just really resonated with me in person, on and off the ice.

 

[Sabrina]

Thank you very much Alex and Snow63 for the explanations. I am really a bit lost in judging ice dance.

 

[katha]

C/B''s PCS are quite low compared to C/L's ? They need to hope that this doesn't continue and the judges get used to their program, or they'll be in trouble... That said, I'm sure C/L are super people and super hard working and they're always dependable to deliver solid performances etc., but can't they branch out a little bit? Just a teeny, tiny bit? It feels like they skate the same program over and over and over again. I'm not saying they need to do drug addict programs or playing death, that was clearly beyond them, but a compromise where it's not always the same mood and the same preppiness?

 

[WeakAnkles]

C/B''s PCS are quite low compared to C/L's ? They need to hope that this doesn't continue and the judges get used to their program, or they'll be in trouble... That said, I'm sure C/L are super people and super hard working and they're always dependable to deliver solid performances etc., but can't they branch out a little bit? Just a teeny, tiny bit? It feels like they skate the same program over and over and over again. I'm not saying they need to do drug addict programs or playing death, that was clearly beyond them, but a compromise where it's not always the same mood and the same preppiness?

It's not only that they are always peppy. It's that they are peppy EVEN WHEN IT IS TOTALLY AGAINST THE CHARACTER OF THE MUSIC. The SD really made me want to reach through my monitor and shake them both. "You're skating to a BLUES song about CRYING FOR YOUr LOVER. Why are you so bloody CHEERFUL????"

Someone should sit them down and tell them, ok, so you thought you had to go all Serious and Uber!Drama! because you won Worlds the previous year to show that you deserved it. And it bombed. That does not mean you have to become the skating equivalent of Twinkees.

Good Lord, someone send them to Carol Lane for a year.

 

[dcnative]

I've been an ice dance fan for a few years now. I haven't seen this event skated live, only via video. However, I don't understand C/L's technical scoring and how they beat C/B when it came to technical scoring. C/B's program was far more difficult. Should C/L really be higher than G/P in terms of technical quality? I am frustrated because I just don't see it. Aside from the two lifts at the beginning of their program and their twizzles, they had no intricate movements yet they received the same score C/B did for transitions. I've even seen teams find more creative ways to build speed for lifts. Please help me understand, someone.

 

[Astrid56]

I think the judges' mindset in this competition are still glued to the 'old system/views'. C/L's program though lovely and charming mirrors much of their previous programs - a bit stale and cutesy. C/B's, on the other hand, a bit avant-garde and a more nuanced re-introduction of defiant attitudes even the lifts are expressive statements of stress, burden, whataboutery. G/P's, I don't know how to describe it - 'tango your way to dramatic expressions'? I must admit I was so entertained by these 3 very varied programs: the conventional (G/P), foolproof (C/L), and avant-garde (C/B).

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

C/L's World title was all about D/W and V/M not being there. As it is a lot of people thought they didn't deserve the title over P/B or W/P.

Right, but in competitions where their top competitors aren't D/W and V/M, they play spoilers...or they still do but for the bronze. Your and others' opinion about whether or not they deserved their title over P/B or W/P aside, the judges score them just high enough to prevent teams who people think have more potential from medaling if those teams open the door, like what P/B did in the SD at 2014 Worlds. So the point isn't whether you like them, but it's that the judges always score them just enough that they can place well if the other teams aren't on point.

agree 100%. that fd from 2014-15 was the dullest program g/p have ever done and yet it resulted in their best ever scores and placements. their pcs are always laughably low. and their creativity never adequately rewarded.

That's not true. They scored way higher at 2016 Worlds. It's just that the rest of field skated better than they did at 2015 Worlds. 2015 Worlds was actually not that well skated in comparison to 2016. Also, in terms of their placements going down, keep in mind that G/P actually made the final flight with their Beatles Waltz/March. The judges were really receptive to that. As for the FD and why they ended up placing two places lower than 2015 Worlds some things can explain that: Coomes/Buckland were out of 2015 Worlds due to injury and skated at 2016 Worlds better than they had all season with their levels on point; Hubbell/Donahue messed up a bit in one of their Ravensburger patterns and placed below G/P in the SD but they skated their Tron FD the best they did all season and it never looked better and couple that with their vast improvements under Dubreuil/Lauzon, they ended up jumping 4 spots from 10th in 2015 to 6th in 2016; and again, everyone just skated better at 2016 Worlds with some teams vastly improving from 2015.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Right, but in competitions where their top competitors aren't D/W and V/M, they play spoilers...or they still do but for the bronze. Your and others' opinion about whether or not they deserved their title over P/B or W/P aside, the judges score them just high enough to prevent teams who people think have more potential from medaling if those teams open the door, like what P/B did in the SD at 2014 Worlds. So the point isn't whether you like them, but it's that the judges always score them just enough that they can place well if the other teams aren't on point.



That's not true. They scored way higher at 2016 Worlds. It's just that the rest of field skated better than they did at 2015 Worlds. 2015 Worlds was actually not that well skated in comparison to 2016. Also, in terms of their placements going down, keep in mind that G/P actually made the final flight with their Beatles Waltz/March. The judges were really receptive to that. As for the FD and why they ended up placing two places lower than 2015 Worlds some things can explain that: Coomes/Buckland were out of 2015 Worlds due to injury and skated at 2016 Worlds better than they had all season with their levels on point; Hubbell/Donahue messed up a bit in one of their Ravensburger patterns and placed below G/P in the SD but they skated their Tron FD the best they did all season and it never looked better and couple that with their vast improvements under Dubreuil/Lauzon, they ended up jumping 4 spots from 10th in 2015 to 6th in 2016; and again, everyone just skated better at 2016 Worlds with some teams vastly improving from 2015.

Good points. I don't necessarily agree with all of them, but on the whole this is a very reasonable assessment of the two Worlds.

 

[Snow63]

2016 Worlds honestly was the most overscored event in history of cop system (id discipline), so literally everyone ther scored better than before. doesn't mean much.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Mostly on TES though. I'm just arguing that I don't think the judges were saying they preferred their 2015 programs over their 2016 ones as there are a lot of things that came into play to explain why they ranked two placements lower, and the blanket statement that they got higher scores for their 2015 FD. Anyway, they scored about the same at 2015 Four Continents and 2016 Four Continents and both programs scored similarly in their GP events.

 

[LadyB]

It's still early in the season, pretty much a warming-up phase, although things are getting serious. Very, very happy with Piper and Paul on the podium. They'll tweak a few bits and pieces as they go along and I think they're in for a great time. At least, I very much hope so.
Everyone will focus on how competition between V/M and W/P goes, perfect opportunity for G/P to present a completely different approach in the way that is by now almost unique to them. Carry on, Piper & Paul, you are most entertaining!

 

[snd]

That's not true. They scored way higher at 2016 Worlds.

ok, yes, mea culpa. gilles and poirier's 2016 worlds sd got them the best placement they had ever had, so it was a better result than 14-15 worlds. but their fd in 2016 was totally lowballed so the overall result was not an improvement. they also had to butcher the original version of their 2016 sd in order to get those high scores so i am not inclined to see it as a victory on their part. whenever they do something that is not pedestrian - which is most of the time - they are lowballed (in pcs). so even if they had one very good sd-result at 2016 worlds, it seemed to me that their 2014-15 programs were much more favoured by all the judges who saw them.