2016 Nebelhorn Short Dance

[bramweld]

I really liked both C/L and Piper and Paul. Madi and Evan seemed a bit untidy. But what was even more impressive, the scores are so close. Wow!! It's anybody's tournament to win, although I have a feeling it will go to C/L, they look so smooth :luv17:

 

[moon]

I find it extremely frustrating to put it lightly looking at the scores from SLC to Nebelhorn. SLC had the tech and judging panel from hell compared to these. There is no way that P/B should be anywhere near H/Ds sccore from SLC. There is also no way that HD pcs should be 2 points less than GP's. Instead of each panel deciding seperately at every competition how they are going to assess the skaters it is about time that there is a meeting amongst all of them at the beginning of the season so that every competiion is judged somewhat equally. It makes these panels look untrustworthy, is tough for spectators to get a real idea of what the quality of skate is and must be disheartening for the skaters It also puts tech minimums and seasons best scores on absolutely unequal terms from comp to comp

 

[Snow63]

Any good video of Chock/Bates' SD? Can't find one.

Edit: found one here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Di4RkbMMaoM

 

[Mrs. P]

Any good video of Chock/Bates' SD? Can't find one.

Doris just posted one in the fan fest!

 

[humbaba]

You can't really compare scores across competitions.

True. But Nebelhorn has a reputation for somewhat conservative judging and Hubbel/Donahue were skating at home in SLC. So I do think this could be an interesting development in the fierce battle among US ice dance teams.

 

[Snow63]

Damn, if not that separation during Partial Step Sequence, Chock/Bates would have been 1st! They lost 1.5 points there.

 

[moon]

I would disagree about Nebelhorn having a reputation of conservative judging. It just depends on the panels, that is the country and the particular judges and techs from that country.

 

[uhh]

I find it extremely frustrating to put it lightly looking at the scores from SLC to Nebelhorn. SLC had the tech and judging panel from hell compared to these. There is no way that P/B should be anywhere near H/Ds sccore from SLC. There is also no way that HD pcs should be 2 points less than GP's. Instead of each panel deciding seperately at every competition how they are going to assess the skaters it is about time that there is a meeting amongst all of them at the beginning of the season so that every competiion is judged somewhat equally. It makes these panels look untrustworthy, is tough for spectators to get a real idea of what the quality of skate is and must be disheartening for the skaters It also puts tech minimums and seasons best scores on absolutely unequal terms from comp to comp

I haven't looked at H/D's sequence really closely, but the difference is really that they only got level 1 on their partial sequence. You often see teams getting lower than anticipated levels at this stage of the season, it doesn't mean that the panels are dodgy, it means that skaters haven't fully understood what they are looking for and need to make adjustments. It is entirely possible that they need to make the turns clearer, or transitions in hold more marked. Just a weak turn & a bad change of hold will take them down to level 1. Coaches will have picked up on that feedback at SLC, and relayed it to teams here.

PCS - It's pointless arguing over this with invested fans, but G/P have a much clearer, more coherent program - and they looked confident skating it, which in turn gives the judges confidence. The endless music changes are killing H/D. So I can understand why G/P are scoring higher on IT & CH at least. The teams aren't miles apart on SS. Haven't watched closely enough to judge transitions. But to me, watching the two programs even just quickly, I can easily see why there is a difference in scores.

RE: a meeting amongst the judges every season - this happens, all the time. There are seminars judges have to attend, they can ask any questions at any time to the ice dance technical committee and guidance is then published on the ISU website, there is a judging debrief immediately after every event and feedback given to everyone in the judging pool, not just those at the event. Don't call the judges untrustworthy just because you don't like the result.

 

[olayolay]

Why does everything Chock/Bates do look so generic? Adventurous music choices, yet it still ended up as interesting as whole wheat toast.

 

[moon]

I am aware of the meetings and education that goes on prior and during the season and the round table discussion after each event. Unfortunately, dance compared to the other disciplines does not seem to benefit from this in the manner in which it should. I only picked out these certain teams for their glaring comparisons in judging. I probably shouldnt have used the word untrustworthy in this particular instance but I do think it showcases the vastly different assessments you can get from one panel to the next. That is about as nicely as I can put it.

 

[dcnative]

Damn, if not that separation during Partial Step Sequence, Chock/Bates would have been 1st! They lost 1.5 points there.

Thank you for pointing that out. No offense to Luca and Anna but Chock and Bates' program was much more difficult.

 

[Alex D]

Why does everything Chock/Bates do look so generic? Adventurous music choices, yet it still ended up as interesting as whole wheat toast.

I disagree with that.

For me, their skating is quite unique, as they offer us a lot of things and especially their last line at the Hip Hop phrase, was exceptionally well done. The alignment is great, they perform to the crowd and it was explosive, working well with what the music had to offer. You can argue that they don´t offer the naughtiness of the Canadians, but they also have totally different programs so...

I felt the podium was quite interesting, as we had three totally different performances. As Piper said, Ice Dance is incredible close and you can argue a lot about the results and at times it´s all a bit about luck and how the judges like you.

 

[mylifeback]

Damn, if not that separation during Partial Step Sequence, Chock/Bates would have been 1st! They lost 1.5 points there.

Could you tell me where on the video that is? I think I see it but want to make sure. Thanks!

 

[Crossover]

Why does everything Chock/Bates do look so generic? Adventurous music choices, yet it still ended up as interesting as whole wheat toast.

Hmmm.. this program is their very first program that entertained me.

 

[WeakAnkles]

For all their talk about wanting to attract a younger audience and to make ID "fresh" and "contemporary," giving first place here to a dance which is essentially a [not particularly interesting] variation on a 1950's sock hop should tell you all you need to know about ice dance judging.

Just saying...

 

[Snow63]

Could you tell me where on the video that is? I think I see it but want to make sure. Thanks!

Here: https://youtu.be/Di4RkbMMaoM?t=1m36s He didn't keep his hand on her on that twizzle.

 

[Snow63]

And I'll repost this post from Chock/Bates 'Fan Fest' here, just for your information:

You can't really compare this season's scores for SD with previous seasons. Since ISU added second required step sequence instead of one section of pattern dance, base value of whole dance is higher.

Maximum BV last season - 29.7 points.
Max BV this season - 33.3 points.

Chock/Bates BV at Nebelhorn was 29.7, which is equal to max possible BV from last season (with all level 4s), that's why the score seems big. But in fact, it's not even that big, it's normal for this season.

Edit: Pardon me, I meant Cappellini/Lanotte's BV, obviously

 

[wishonastar]

Also, H/D left at least 5 pts on the table by not hitting their levels. They had a level one partial step and level two midline. Most teams didn't get levels last week on footwork. As said, can't compare events...

 

[Snow63]

For all their talk about wanting to attract a younger audience and to make ID "fresh" and "contemporary," giving first place here to a dance which is essentially a [not particularly interesting] variation on a 1950's sock hop should tell you all you need to know about ice dance judging.

Just saying...

But they got highest PCS. It's TES they were dinged in, so I'm totally okay with the result.

 

[4everchan]

another thing to consider with dance is that it makes exponential difference "when" you compete... of course, now we are only talking about one week, so perhaps this isn't the best example but I would not be surprised if teams competing in Finlandia get much higher scores than the ones competing in the first couple competitions of the year... they simply get better and better acquainted with their programs and perform it better, not only PCS wise but technically wise. What the commentators said about G/P is that their program looked like it was March, not September... so perhaps that is a factor as well. Lane's team are always well-trained early on during the season.

I am aware of the meetings and education that goes on prior and during the season and the round table discussion after each event. Unfortunately, dance compared to the other disciplines does not seem to benefit from this in the manner in which it should. I only picked out these certain teams for their glaring comparisons in judging. I probably shouldnt have used the word untrustworthy in this particular instance but I do think it showcases the vastly different assessments you can get from one panel to the next. That is about as nicely as I can put it.