2016 NHK Trophy Free Dance

[viennaskater]

next season is going to be rough as the required SD rhythm is rhumba.

Great! LOVE the rhumba. The best ice dance Rhumba of all time was Torvill and Deans at the Olympics in 1994. Made my hair stand on end!

 

[viennaskater]

Once again, I repeat my humble request to stop belittling Tessa and Scott because of the outcome of NHK2016. Please and thank you.

Are you on first name terms with them??

 

[Mango]

Please don't read my words like that.

You say that, but how are we supposed to read this?

V/M are great but they aren't much better than the others.

That's not very respectful. If the point you want to make is that there are other good couples as well then this isn't the best way to do it. No one has deified them or began hero worshipping, so I'm not sure what your concern is.

Are you on first name terms with them??

I wish! I have met them though. Very nice people.

 

[rosy14]

Pechalat / Bourzat were original. Sometimes the judges don't rewarded the originality.

See Gilles/Poirier too, even though Pechalat/Bourzat were better skaters. They were robbed in Sochi (Russians must win) and perhaps in Saitama too.

 

[heavy]

You read like I don't respect them?
What I mean all the couples are very similar. English is not my native language I don't know how to express in other way. I respect all the skaters. And I love ice dance, and I love more than one couple probably that's our difference.
On the other hand I can say you don't respect the others teams because if you are offended when I say they don't make much difference of others, you are saying they are so much better, no one can be near. It seems they are God's we can't touch them.
I'm sorry you think like that.
I think they deserved to win In NHK, they made better performances. But in Skate Canada wasn't so clear. Every commentators said this.
Figure Skating is like that, one day very good, another not so good, it's life.

You say that, but how are we supposed to read this?



That's not very respectful. If the point you want to make is that there are other good couples as well then this isn't the best way to do it. No one has deified them or began hero worshipping, so I'm not sure what your concern is.



I wish! I have met them though. Very nice people.

 

[Mango]

You read like I don't respect them?
What I mean all the couples are very similar. English is not my native language I don't know how to express in other way. I respect all the skaters. And I love ice dance, and I love more than one couple probably that's our difference.
On the other hand I can say you don't respect the others teams because if you are offended when I say they don't make much difference of others, you are saying they are so much better, no one can be near. It seems they are God's we can't touch them.
I'm sorry you think like that.
I think they deserved to win In NHK, they made better performances. But in Skate Canada wasn't so clear. Every commentators said this.
Figure Skating is like that, one day very good, another not so good, it's life.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Did you miss the post I made earlier in this thread, where I said we should not be putting down other teams because our favourite didn't do well? I have had to do exactly that in other competitions. I am asking you to express your thoughts without bringing down another team. Which is what you've done.

If you read enough of my posts on here you'll see I like several ice dance teams. Particularly one team that hasn't even made the GPF. What makes you think I have put Tessa & Scott on another level? Please give me the exact quotes to illustrate your point. I'm not a part of some cult that worships them and disparages other teams.

 

[heavy]

I read several of your post and i agree with them. I don't understand why you think i put down V/M. My English isn't good but not explain why you think that.
I'm a fan of V/M you know... So the fact I think several couples have similar quality, I put down specifically them?
I don't understand this point of view.
I give up.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Did you miss the post I made earlier in this thread, where I said we should not be putting down other teams because our favourite didn't do well? I have had to do exactly that in other competitions. I am asking you to express your thoughts without bringing down another team. Which is what you've done.

If you read enough of my posts on here you'll see I like several ice dance teams. Particularly one team that hasn't even made the GPF. What makes you think I have put Tessa & Scott on another level? Please give me the exact quotes to illustrate your point. I'm not a part of some cult that worships them and disparages other teams.

 

[Mango]

I read several of your post and i agree with them. I don't understand why you think i put down V/M. My English isn't good but not explain why you think that.
I'm a fan of V/M you know... So the fact I think several couples have similar quality, I put down specifically them?
I don't understand this point of view.
I give up.

I quoted the bit that I found issue with but the doesn't appear to have worked so let me bold it for you.

Well, I don't agree. They fit the music to the twizzles like the others couples but the twizzles are so good the are highlighted in the program.
V/M have good twizzles too, but sometimes they had problems in the execution, like many others couples, some more frequently than others. for them less frequently.
For instance, P/C FD, the twizzles are very well fit with the music too, but in NHK they had problems in the execution.
V/M are great but they aren't much better than the others. We have several couples with quality that can win the final.
They have ups and downs like everyone else. NHK was one up, great..I'm happy...but Skate Canada they loose FD.
These moments happens to all.

I get that English isn't your first language. But this part I don't find to be respectful. And for some reason you think because I've said this I think they are God's gift to skating. Strange assumption to make. Well, regardless, I hope I'm clear now.


Unrelated to this discussion but does anyone have any thoughts about Anna & Luca's PCS? They're down from Skate Canada, though their TES was actually higher at NHK. Were there any major changes I missed that could have contributed to this? I recall the SlLi in the FD.

 

[heavy]

You think that phrase aren't respectfully. I already explain, I think we have at the final several with similar quality, is possible anyone to win, that is what I want to say with that phrase. Not the best words I see, so sorry. I don't want unappreciated them, only make a point all the couples are very close, will be tough final. Sorry to make assumptions.

I love the personality of Anna & Luca, I think their FD is a masterpiece, very Anna and Luca, probably one of my favourites this year. Luca is a wonderful Charlot. I think sometimes they aren't so strong technically.
In the SD between Skate Canada and NHK they have higher level at PStl4. Higher GOE in SILi4 and NtMiSt3.
But PCS were lower in NHK.
In the FD the major difference was higher level at DiSt3, more points here. But again lower PCS in NHK. And yes they change the SILi4. But maintain the level but the judges give a higher GOE. The total wasn't so different between the two competitions around 180,35 and 180,42 points.
Sometimes I think PCS are much lower for their quality. But understand sometimes they are so committed with their interpretation they can be more sloppy technically, but don't happen here in NHK in my opinion. So weird these lower PCS when the Japanese public receive so well the program.
Here four judges put them in fourth and two in second (Japanese judge and Italian ), the rest in third.

I quoted the bit that I found issue with but the doesn't appear to have worked so let me bold it for you.



I get that English isn't your first language. But this part I don't find to be respectful. And for some reason you think because I've said this I think they are God's gift to skating. Strange assumption to make. Well, regardless, I hope I'm clear now.


Unrelated to this discussion but does anyone have any thoughts about Anna & Luca's PCS? They're down from Skate Canada, though their TES was actually higher at NHK. Were there any major changes I missed that could have contributed to this? I recall the SlLi in the FD.

 

[Mango]

Judges don't rank skaters any more. This is more of the same stuff I told The Skating Protocol fellow about. They give a score. It can be harsh, it can be high, it can be somewhere in between. But judges don't rank skaters.

If I were Anna & Luca I'd have a chat with the judges to see what it is that they didn't like.

 

[heavy]

They don't rank skater, I know but in the end the scores give a rank, I hope you understand what I mean. Why four judges give lower marks? And the Japanese so higher scores, higher than everyone else except the winners? I don't speak about the Italian.
But I agree they need to know what the judges don't like it.

Judges don't rank skaters any more. This is more of the same stuff I told The Skating Protocol fellow about. They give a score. It can be harsh, it can be high, it can be somewhere in between. But judges don't rank skaters.

If I were Anna & Luca I'd have a chat with the judges to see what it is that they didn't like.

 

[Mango]

They don't rank skater, I know but in the end the scores give a rank, I hope you understand what I mean. Why four judges give lower marks? And the Japanese so higher scores, higher than everyone else except the winners? I don't speak about the Italian.
But I agree they need to know what the judges don't like it.

You can extrapolate what you like from the data, but the fact is that judges give a score, not a rank. A judge may not even realize what ranking they've given out with their points if you want to argue that they are purposely ranking skaters. They have checklists and key points they look for.

The Japanese judge gave out some strange marks. It's not limited to one team. The best example of this: the CuLi of Papadakis/Cizeron in the FD. Carol Lane mentioned that that lift should receive 0 GOEs if the judges correctly did their job. The Japanese judge gave them +3. The only judges who gave 0 GOEs were the Canadian (the lovely Leanna Caron), the French, and the American. From this we can see that some judges are not correctly doing their jobs or they just cannot see what's on the ice clearly.

 

[Rossig]

V/M are great but they aren't much better than the others.

Sorry to interfere in your conversation. But I completely don't understand why the above sentence is disrespectful to V/M. Heavy only said that V/M aren't so much better team than other teams. What's wrong with it? Would he/she show respect if he/she said they are in a class of their own? But how can she/he say so if that's not what he/she thinks. Mango could you please write us how would you desrcibe a skater who is very good (or even great), but still you think other skaters are not far behind him/her, in such a way that it is respectful in your opinion.

 

[Mango]

Sorry to interfere in your conversation. But I completely don't understand why the above sentence is disrespectful to V/M. Heavy only said that W/M aren't so much better team than other teams. What's wrong with it? Would he/she show respect if he/she said they are in a class of their own? But how can she/he say so if that's not what he/she thinks. Mango could you please write us how would you desrcibe a skater who is very good (or even great), but still you think other skaters are not far behind him/her, in such a way that it is respectful in your opinion.

How about I put it this way. Rossig, you're a nice poster, but you aren't much better than everyone else. How does that make you feel? This statement is not worded positively, which I what I was pointing out.

If I had to say something like this I would say: Team X is a great team. We are seeing a lot of teams of great calibre this season. It's turning out to be one of the best seasons for watching ice dance because of how many comparatively competitive teams there are. GPF is really a toss up, it's tough to say who'll medal.

Or something like that.

 

[Rossig]

Ok, thank you for the explanation. I still think heavy's words were very delicate (though I guess you are right, they might have been worded better) in comparison to stuff some of the posters say here on the forum.

 

[Mango]

Thank you for understanding, Rossig.

I am just seeing a lot of negativity by these results and some suspect logic too (which I actually didn't even go into in heavy's post) but I'd rather not read that. There's enough vitriol floating around YouTube to last us until Beijing 2022.

Do Hawayek/Baker have any other assignments? I'd like to see them do better with that SD. It was nice to see that FD at NHK.

 

[heavy]

Thank you Rossig.
I think Mango now understand I don't meant to be negative. Only say all the teams are so close, so the final will be tough. The next time I'll try the choose better the words.

And Mango we will see Kaitlin H/B in the Nationals. I love their FD, it was a great improvement by them.

Ok, thank you for the explanation. I still think heavy's words were very delicate (though I guess you are right, they might have been worded better) in comparison to stuff some of the posters say here on the forum.

 

[heavy]

Well, I have some difficulties to believe if they give a score don't know the personal ranking they are given to the athlete.
How do you explain the score of the judges of the same country of the athletes? They know if they give higher scores will help.
I'm not a judge is only my opinion after seeing several results. This year we know again the countries of the judges, and you have to agree something strange happen, and i'm not talking particularly about Ice dance. Happen in all categories.

Yes, you're are right some judges do not know their job very well.

You can extrapolate what you like from the data, but the fact is that judges give a score, not a rank. A judge may not even realize what ranking they've given out with their points if you want to argue that they are purposely ranking skaters. They have checklists and key points they look for.

The Japanese judge gave out some strange marks. It's not limited to one team. The best example of this: the CuLi of Papadakis/Cizeron in the FD. Carol Lane mentioned that that lift should receive 0 GOEs if the judges correctly did their job. The Japanese judge gave them +3. The only judges who gave 0 GOEs were the Canadian (the lovely Leanna Caron), the French, and the American. From this we can see that some judges are not correctly doing their jobs or they just cannot see what's on the ice clearly.

 

[Heleng]

Do Hawayek/Baker have any other assignments? I'd like to see them do better with that SD. It was nice to see that FD at NHK.

Golden Spin.

 

[heavy]

Great!

Golden Spin.