2016 Skate Canada Short Dance

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For once I got to watch live - thanks to the live links provided. Here are my comments...

1) Tessa & Scott - great choice of music and concept of merging blues and hip hop. Tessa in particular was energized and very on. Scott was good but looked a less comfortable with both competing and hip hop, but still very good. Speed and technique the best. Programs needs more highlights and I am not quite I. Love with the costumes.
2) Madi & Evan - Definately improving. The choice of bad to the bone is a problem for me as the male voice invites you to look at Evan who is not interpreting that part of the theme. Madi's performance is drawing attention away from Evan's underperformance making her look OTT. Perhaps if a female voice sang the lyrics it could work. I feel Evan is not suited to the bad boy role, perhaps a more moody blues with longer lines could work to highlight him. As for the hip hop, it works for me as it is more funky than hip hop. Evans costume is still too elegant for this although his presentation is improving.
3) Piper and Paul - by far the most fun and interpretation. I wonder if there is still room to grow with the program though. Much improvement from Piper.
4) Anna & Luca - very good, very solid, but nothing new from them. I sense they are just enjoying skating at this level, but not really progressing.
5) Alex & Ivan - great young team full of freshness. Still need to work on posture, closeness, and edges but very enjoyable to watch. Costumes very modern, faked me out as I thought they were going more modern with their music. Will be fun to watch, especially Ivan.
6) Kaitlin & Jean-Luc - Great blending of music and styles. Program very good. Jean-Luc - just wow! Kaitlyn improved as well. I would like to see her arms more relaxed - nerves maybe? I feel like she needs to let the music and interpretation flow through to her fingertips because she hits some awkward arm lines with respect to JL who is very fluid. Very enjoyable to watch. Bravo for versatility.

Great assessment of the SD - totally agree!

 

[Alba]

Blimy, I have never been a fan of CB but their SD was the program I enjoyed the most. Maybe because I love funky music but it was pure entertainment and sexy as hell. Great costumes too.

C&L, been there, seen there, total snooze.

 

[rain]

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3) Piper and Paul - by far the most fun and interpretation. I wonder if there is still room to grow with the program though. Much improvement from Piper.

They totally got the cheesy fun of disco right on the nose. Some rough edges still, but I think this program is a winner. Oh, and Paul's 70s 'do and moustache made me crack up.

 

[bobbob]

Tessa and Scott were underscored compared to Chock and Bates. The Technical Controller, SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA), is someone who has a long history of giving Tessa and Scott ridiculously low scores in the past (http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2013/12/judge-shawn-rettstatt.html), while he has a particular affinity toward Chock and Bates and other American skaters. Obviously, the general consensus of the nine judges was that Tessa and Scott were about 3-4 points better than Chock and Bates, who were about the same level as Cappellini and Lanotte. This single crooked technical controller led V&M to only have a one point lead over C&B, who had a whopping 5 POINTS over C&L, who had a similar level performance in the eyes of 9 out of the 10-12 judges... Regardless of who you support, the current process is undermining the scoring of the majority of the judging panel.

Again, why I have been advocating for EITHER a more democratic process for awarding levels, or making the point penalties for levels not as severe.

At this rate, even with 3-4 more points in PCS and better executed elements, V&M are barely going to eke a victory..if they do that at all. And yes, I think they will start doing better once they get away from this crooked technical controller.

 

[Alba]

Just a quick note, I wouldn't be too sure that the judges prefer C/B's SD until we see them go head-to-head. But if you want to do a comparison and make that sort of statement, then looks closer. Just based on the scores the judges had actual control over, The Shibs received higher GOEs and PCS than Chock/Bates. Chock/Bates also had seven judges give at least one PCS score in the 8.0 range (two of them giving them a score in the 7.0s) while the Shibs had almost all PCS scores in the 9.0s or higher with two judges giving them a score in the 8.0 range.

Dont forget though that C&B were in Canada while the Shibs were skating in SA. That does make a difference. I think the only way to know is when we see them go head to head, or in "neutral" grounds.

 

[Alba]

I could not appreciate C/B skating because was mostly looking at Madison's naked belly, sorry.

Are you saying that you are a prude or a perv?

 

[Skater Boy]

Tessa and Scott were underscored compared to Chock and Bates. The Technical Controller, SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA), is someone who has a long history of giving Tessa and Scott ridiculously low scores in the past (http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2013/12/judge-shawn-rettstatt.html), while he has a particular affinity toward Chock and Bates and other American skaters. Obviously, the general consensus of the nine judges was that Tessa and Scott were about 3-4 points better than Chock and Bates, who were about the same level as Cappellini and Lanotte. This single crooked technical controller led V&M to only have a one point lead over C&B, who had a whopping 5 POINTS over C&L, who had a similar level performance in the eyes of 9 out of the 10-12 judges... Regardless of who you support, the current process is undermining the scoring of the majority of the judging panel.

Again, why I have been advocating for EITHER a more democratic process for awarding levels, or making the point penalties for levels not as severe.

At this rate, even with 3-4 more points in PCS and better executed elements, V&M are barely going to eke a victory..if they do that at all. And yes, I think they will start doing better once they get away from this crooked technical controller.

I totally agree in this competition V and M were underscored and C and B were overscored. Maybe not alleging crooendess but I am not sure what the judges saw. Because if you take the scores the way they are and knowing c and b already struggled this year against the R ussians it means V and M aren't looking good against the French or Shibsibs. V and M looked pretty good to me but they ahve been gone for two years and they now have to reprove themselves and get slotted in there somewhere.

 

[Astrid56]

Tessa and Scott were underscored compared to Chock and Bates. The Technical Controller, SHAWN RETTSTATT (USA), is someone who has a long history of giving Tessa and Scott ridiculously low scores in the past (http://dubemoir.blogspot.com/2013/12/judge-shawn-rettstatt.html), while he has a particular affinity toward Chock and Bates and other American skaters. Obviously, the general consensus of the nine judges was that Tessa and Scott were about 3-4 points better than Chock and Bates, who were about the same level as Cappellini and Lanotte. This single crooked technical controller led V&M to only have a one point lead over C&B, who had a whopping 5 POINTS over C&L, who had a similar level performance in the eyes of 9 out of the 10-12 judges... Regardless of who you support, the current process is undermining the scoring of the majority of the judging panel.

We seem to forget that there are 9 judges appointed in the panel. According to Section A - Official Regulations - Roles and Responsibilities of Officials and Scoring System Operators (Skate Canada_ https://info.skatecanada.ca/hc/en-ca/articles/202839334-Section-A-Official-Regulations-135-Names-Roles-and-Responsibilities-of-Officials-and-Scoring-System-Operators :

Must be completely impartial and neutral at all times
Must disregard public applause or disapproval
Must mark only the performance and not be influenced by reputation or past performance
Must use the whole range of grade of execution values and component marks
Must mark independently and while judging shall not converse with one another or indicate errors by action or sound
Must not discuss their own or others marks and scores, during the event, with any person other than the referee of the part of the event which they are judging
Adheres to the Skate Canada Officials’ Code of Ethics

And based on rules, the Technical Controller essentially acts as an overseer and is also monitored by other officials i.e. Referee,Technical specialist/assistant technical specialist. Therefore, to BLAME him for the lower scores is at best irrational as there are other people whose opinions/rulings matter. In fact, I'd say the Canadian Judge was particularly biased giving C/B lower scores and favoring more the Canadian Ice Dancers. His bias is evident in the way he scored the skaters.

I don't understand very well ice-dancing elements but I do understand dance very well having danced extensively in my youth and studied it in depth (went to get University education _Theatre and Dance) so I tend to see the performances in dance perspective. C/B deserved their scores - in fact, they were undermarked or underscored in PCS. They performed that Hip Hop routine with confidence and appropriate expression/spirit. One could criticize them for the music choice but the music is appropriate for that Hip Hop routine. Hip Hop is not Ballroom dancing - it is a whole different animal. It is not concerned with 'grace', it is more about expression - almost a commentary on a social-political issues or attitudes. You can imitate the moves or poses and most dancers do that to validate their Hip Hop dancing but it is mostly an expression ... a reaction to certain conventions. Rohene understood the dance so well and his choreography nailed it _ both in movements, expressions, and spirit.

 

[Matt K]

Matt, Matt, Matt. You do know that Davis and White have moved on, right? You will have to find some other Virtue and Moir rivals to assail this year (I nominate Papadakis and Cizeron). IMHO this would be better than fearing that the ghosts of D&W will linger to spook the ISU judges pool.

Why? P/C are actually great skaters and ice dancers, and they are as good as anybody competing. It won't be a surprise if P/C win gold again or at the Olympics. Now that the judges' anonymity has been totally gone, it absolutely makes sense how the controversial 2014 Olympic Ice Dancing results came to be, with certain people on the panel like the home judge who gave C/L higher than V/M in PCS. With people like the Italian judge from last night, it absolutely makes sense how the results came to be. Very Unfortunate.


Cappellini/Lanotte actually beat Chock/Bates at Finlandia. It looks like C/L they just had a bad day with the TES here.

 

[bobbob]

We seem to forget that there are 9 judges appointed in the panel. According to Section A - Official Regulations - Roles and Responsibilities of Officials and Scoring System Operators (Skate Canada_ https://info.skatecanada.ca/hc/en-ca/articles/202839334-Section-A-Official-Regulations-135-Names-Roles-and-Responsibilities-of-Officials-and-Scoring-System-Operators :


And based on rules, the Technical Controller essentially acts as an overseer and is also monitored by other officials i.e. Referee,Technical specialist/assistant technical specialist. Therefore, to BLAME him for the lower scores is at best irrational as there are other people whose opinions/rulings matter. In fact, I'd say the Canadian Judge was particularly biased giving C/B lower scores and favoring more the Canadian Ice Dancers. His bias is evident in the way he scored the skaters.

I don't understand very well ice-dancing elements but I do understand dance very well having danced extensively in my youth and studied it in depth (went to get University education _Theatre and Dance) so I tend to see the performances in dance perspective. C/B deserved their scores - in fact, they were undermarked or underscored in PCS. They performed that Hip Hop routine with confidence and appropriate expression/spirit. One could criticize them for the music choice but the music is appropriate for that Hip Hop routine. Hip Hop is not Ballroom dancing - it is a whole different animal. It is not concerned with 'grace', it is more about expression - almost a commentary on a social-political issues or attitudes. You can imitate the moves or poses and most dancers do that to validate their Hip Hop dancing but it is mostly an expression ... a reaction to certain conventions. Rohene understood the dance so well and his choreography nailed it _ both in movements, expressions, and spirit.

I agree that C/B skated well...but did not deserve higher levels than V/M on two of their sequences. Yeah the Canadian judge marked C/B a little lowly, but the score didn't affect their score much at all, while the levels gave them a 5 point boost over C/L and a 2 point boost over V/M for no apparent reason other than the controller/specialist's bias. Can someone explain to me why C/L got a level 1 for the partial step sequence? Looks fine to me, pretty clean steps...

WHAT I am saying is that the other nine judges as a whole seem to agree that C/L skated just as well if not better than Chock and bates, but they only control GOE and PCS. Chock and bates got 8.8 GOE while C/L got 7.7 (8.7 if the technical controller didnt give them a level 1), and C/L had a higher PCS by 0.5, so the 9 judges as a whole thought Capellinni and Lanotte skated better, an assessment I happen to agree with. Both teams skated well, however.

 

[Matt K]

Meryl very recently reiterated that they have not closed the door on returning to competition .

I already predicted and have said many times that it would not surprise me at all if Zoueva and D/W were secretly planning programs right now for the 2018 Olympics. Would not surprise me if they are training the Rhumba now and making programs for 2018. I mean, didn't Zoueva plan Scheherazade two years ahead of time? *yawn*

 

[Matt K]

I agree that C/B skated well...but did not deserve higher levels than V/M on two of their sequences. Yeah the Canadian judge marked C/B a little lowly, but the score didn't affect their score much at all, while the levels gave them a 5 point boost over C/L and a 2 point boost over V/M for no apparent reason other than the controller/specialist's bias. Can someone explain to me why C/L got a level 1 for the partial step sequence? Looks fine to me, pretty clean steps...

The American judge, judge no. 8 (Richard Dalley), gave V/M and C/B the exact same marks for SS. Skating Skills(!)

Atrocious, if you ask me.

Look at the Italian judge's marks for Cappellini/Lanotte and compare to V/M, and all will be revealed. Very Unfortunate.

 

[Astrid56]

Based on the way these judges are scoring performances, V/M will prevail ... and C/B probably taking 2nd or 3rd (who knows). I don't see innovation ... new concepts developing in Ice-dancing because skating judges tend to perhaps subconsciously subscribe to the old school/approach. Dance is more open to innovations hence we see all sorts of dance forms _ jazz, hip hop, even tango has branched out to many styles - Argentine, Tango canyengue, etc., Ballet has evolved tremendously - Classical, Romantic, Neoclassical ...

I notice this Forum is not fond of C/B and that's understandable but there's no need to degrade their performances. I love their performances because I notice they are real dancers/performers.

 

[Matt K]

Real dancers I do not think they are (C/B). I even prefer that Spanish couple who technically, are not that good. Or that lower ranked French couple a few years ago who skated to that remix of Those were great dancers who had a great sense of music.

As someone on this forum usually likes to say, "you can't polish a turd", or something like that.

 

[Alba]

The American judge, judge no. 8 (Richard Dalley), gave V/M and C/B the exact same marks for SS. Skating Skills(!)

Atrocious, if you ask me.

Look at the Italian judge's marks for Cappellini/Lanotte and compare to V/M, and all will be revealed. Very Unfortunate.

By the way, I am trying to figure out how can you tell from the protocols which judge gave what? Help?


p.s and yea, same marks for SS it is LOL

 

[Astrid56]

I already predicted and have said many times that it would not surprise me at all if Zoueva and D/W were secretly planning programs right now for the 2018 Olympics. Would not surprise me if they are training the Rhumba now and making programs for 2018. I mean, didn't Zoueva plan Scheherazade two years ahead of time? *yawn*

Charlie and Meryl selected 'Scheherazade' and also planned/practiced the lifts they would use two years before the Sochi Olympics. NOT ZOUEVA!

It did not surprise me that the American Judge gave C/B and V/M the same scores.

 

[moon]

My take away Not Classy moment from the SD. After VM skated and the entire crowd rose for a standing ovation G/P"s coaches Carol and Jon Lane as well as some of their skaters chose to stay sitting and did not even clap. Just sat there stone faced. I don't know if I have ever seen such outrageously rude behaviour towards another team. She commentates for CBC sports for goodness sakes. It will definitely be hard for me to get behind this team of people after seeing them act in such a crass manner. Shame on you

 

[Alba]

My take away Not Classy moment from the SD. After VM skated and the entire crowd rose for a standing ovation G/P"s coaches Carol and Jon Lane as well as some of their skaters chose to stay sitting and did not even clap. Just sat there stone faced. I don't know if I have ever seen such outrageously rude behaviour towards another team. She commentates for CBC sports for goodness sakes. It will definitely be hard for me to get behind this team of people after seeing them act in such a crass manner. Shame on you

Don't take it so personally. They are used to these competitions and skaters that probably just didn't thought about it. For many of them it's just another day at work. I wouldn't read too much into that.

 

[Astrid56]

Real dancers I do not think they are (C/B). I even prefer that Spanish couple who technically, are not that good. Or that lower ranked French couple a few years ago who skated to that remix of Those were great dancers who had a great sense of music.

As someone on this forum usually likes to say, "you can't polish a turd", or something like that.

As someone says: "“Humans see what they want to see.” (Rick Riordan, The Lightning Thief)

 

[Matt K]

That is not strictly true. You can cover less ice for each step of the blues, yet still stay in time with the music. So you will effectively be moving more slowly.
If team A does a choctaw which covers 3 metres in the same time as Team B does the same choctaw but covers just 1 metre, of course team A will be moving faster than team B, but both will be in time with the musicl

That is why I get so annoyed at teams who cover just a few metres in their twizzles getting the same marks as teams who cover half the rink!
It's so much easier to do twizzles perfectly when you are effectively moving more slowly as you are covering so much less ice

Thank you!! This is so true. It annoys me that couples who cover little ice on twizzles and such can get similar GOEs than other couples. The good judges who know that it is harder to cover more ice actually do mark accordingly so though. So some judges do know what they are doing.

And yes, C/B were slower than the others in the Midnight Blues pattern, especially going by ice coverage.

It's impossible. All teams' patterns have the exact same tempo, and if you'll take a watch to check you'll see that the pattern dance is taking to same time to execute for every team. Besides each step and turn is executed to the prescribed beat of the music, and if someone takes slower pace they receive a timing mistake penalty. Chock and Bates pattern was not slower than the pattern of any other team. Unless you mean different element, Partial Step Sequence tha follow the pattern, for example.

By this logic, the Danish couple was the fastest team on the ice.