2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Ladies FS

[Jaana]

I liked Bell´s West Side Story program and enjoyed her skating a lot. She is really fast!

Nagasu had attack in her freeskate! Instead of toying with triple axel though she should train, train and train hard to get all the other triple jumps fully rotated. Without fully rotated jumps she just goes nowhere and an underrotated triple axel will not help her at all....

Sakamoto and Higuchi, new enjoyable skaters to me to watch!!!

Medvedeva´s program looks good, but I really hope she should leave out that miming in the beginning. It feels too much, unless of course if she uses it for relaxation? I have never seen her fall earlier, but she is human...

Kostner was The Star of the Evening to me!!! Such beautiful, effortless moving to great choreography and music. That was what I call art and elegance!!! This performance will stay in my memory.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

I wonder what people here see in Mirai Nagasu. Her jumps are very often, and clearly so, underrotated and her programmes are bland, uninspired and lifeless. I think the US would be better off sending Ashley, Karen and Mariah to the Olympics.

I think your assessment of her is accurate, maybe a bit harsh but it's about personal tastes anyway.

What I see in her and why I support her is that she has been here for some time and she is actively trying improve. 3A to me, underrotated or not, is a big deal for the ladies figure skating in general. There are many talented skaters out there and majority of the skaters have no chance at all to medal. In those 2nd tier skaters, I try to find things unique to them and valuable in them. 3A is one of those things. Wagner's persona is another for example. I don't care if they make it to the podium or not, I only care whether they performed well in their own way if it makes sense.

As for Mariah, I unfortunately do not see anything special in her. She performs nicely and then I totally forget about her. She can and does perform better than Mirai, I agree with it. But she won't medal and she doesn't have something different to offer in my opinion so I want Mirai instead.

Mariah has room for improvement and she still needs to find her own style, something people would remember her with.

 

[GGFan]

[/B]
Yes, yes, yes and yes, It is still more beautiful than many current programs but the 2011 version is in another class. Sadly ,the current judging seems to have "the more busy the better" mind set when it come to transition ratherthan evaluating how coherent and well placed they are in the program.

This is just a quibble since we're both praising her, but I'll take the 2017 version. She was faster and her content was more difficult then, but the program and her interpretation skills have visibly improved. Several poses and hand movements from the ballet have been added. I think they bring to mind the scene from the poem and add to the interpretation. I also think now program really picks up on more subtleties in the music. Finally, and probably most important, every move of her body seems to have a purpose now. There was still some flailing and wasted arms movements back in 2011. This version of Carolina just owns the ice.

 

[moriel]

[/B]
Yes, yes, yes and yes, It is still more beautiful than many current programs but the 2011 version is in another class. Sadly ,the current judging seems to have "the more busy the better" mind set when it come to transition ratherthan evaluating how coherent and well placed they are in the program.

Actually, im curious because I do not see any people complaining when men skate to busy programs.
Because when i said this about the current top crop and wanted Plushy back, I got heavily bashed... Wonder if i finally found more people who think like me =D

 

[jenm]

I weep for the death of Zhenya's beautiful FS costume (for The Leftover). This and the previous dress aren't Olympic worthy dresses for me. Not striking enough for an Olympic champion.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

I weep for the death of Zhenya's beautiful FS costume (for The Leftover). This and the previous dress aren't Olympic worthy dresses for me. Not striking enough for an Olympic champion.

She used it for her exquisite ex today!!

 

[mermaidfestavol3]

Since when slender body type and elegance mean the same thing? Shorter/athletic skaters are able to be graceful, elegant, create nice lines and present the heck out of the program. You don't need to be a top model type to pull of graceful, just like long legs won't make you elegant by default.
Comments like that are something that throw some skaters into eating disorders. You said that it was supposed to be funny, no, the muffin thing is not funny at all. And stop calling Carolina Katarina.

Agree 100%. It's so unnecessary to body shame these athletes, especially because they're all super fit and really, being short has no bearing on your ability to express a program. Also, calling any person a "muffin on skates" is gross and terrible. Just because Wakaba doesn't have a "traditional" figure skating build doesn't mean that it's impossible for her to be elegant.

 

[jenm]

She used it for her exquisite ex today!!

I just saw it That dress NEEDS more exposure.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

It may not be impossible, but she is not that elegant. And don't lump everything into body-shaming.
Of course the body comes into the overall presentation. This is analogous to dance, where you can have all the skills and command of style but your body absolutely plays a part in the perception of the viewer. You'd have to have something special to make up for less than ideal proportions and body lines. (Shoma Uno, Gabby Daleman comes to mind.)

Hi, yes you are right that we shouldn't lump everything into body shaming especially since this sport has a lot to with physics (how weight effects speed and height of a jump etc.) But some people do not differentiate between stating the facts and shaming a type of a body. We all can acknowledge that the skater X has short legs, but I do not appreciate when someone says that someone looks like a muffin on skates. Especially since there are a lot of aspiring skaters here and anorexia has proven to be a real problem in this sport.

 

[SXTN]

Hi, yes you are right that we shouldn't lump everything into body shaming especially since this sport has a lot to with physics (how weight effects speed and height of a jump etc.) But some people do not differentiate between stating the facts and shaming a type of a body. We all can acknowledge that the skater X has short legs, but I do not appreciate when someone says that someone looks like a muffin on skates. Especially since there are a lot of aspiring skaters here and anorexia has proven to be a real problem in this sport.

Legs are legs! You can't change your legs, you can't change your face (Eteri probably disagrees here...).

Anorexia won't make your legs longer or less strong. So I don't get your point.

 

[quadrupleaxel15]

Legs are legs! You can't change your legs, you can't change your face (Eteri probably disagrees here...).

Anorexia won't make your legs longer or less strong. So I don't get your point.

Body shaming may cause anorexia, not yours in particular but generally. Anyways I don't want to continue for much longer, you are entitled to your opinions and I have made my point already. Unless you have other things to say, see you in another thread Itcaip :giveup:

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

It actually isn't overacting. She's performing in front of a huge stadium.

I agree. It's just like on any stage. An actor has to project out much more than say an actor on film. I understand many here dislike (or even hate) Evgenia's style of skating but I don't. For decades it has been the Russian way to try and tell a story on the ice. Some of course are more successful than others. Imo Med does it exceptionally well. She's trying to sell a performance and she is succeeding. She is receiving massive scores for it so why on Earth should she change it to suit other's tastes? Why should she 'mime less' or try another FS? I've never read Anna Karenina nor any Tolstoy for that matter. I've never seen any movie version of 'Anna K'. I do know that Anna is killed by a train, throws herself in front of one or whatever. That much I learned from reading about it on this or another forum. I just enjoy the performance. I'd rather get that than a bland no expression skate with almost zero choreo or transitions or zero connection to the music. And Evgenia's backloading in the bonus with arms overhead is another reason she is gaining huge TES points. Her coach Eteri and her choreographers have tried to cover all the bases and who can blame them? Evgenia is WINNING because of the way her programs are arranged AND because of her incredible consistency. I don't believe there is some kind of worldwide conspiracy from international judges to keep throwing huge scores at her just because or for political reasons. She is giving them what the COP imo is asking for. Her style may not be to everyone's taste but she at least always tries to SELL her performance within her own capabilities. And she is doing it.

I only wish someone like Mirai or her coach Tom Z would have taken such an approach years ago. Yes, she's improved on her jumps but I see very little has been done, if anything at all, to raise the quality of her overall performance and she keeps getting slammed for it in the PCS category. I adore Mirai and I like Tom but it is inexcusable. Not after all this time and Nationals (nevermind the Olympics) are just a few months away. It's nearly too late. Mirai is already in the hole with one GP and she's going to have to be flawless at NHK to try and make up for the damage done to her 'resume'. Some here say 'wait till Nationals' but they seem to be forgetting that per US Figure Skating's criteria, 'body of work' is part of the deal for Olympic selection. And now Mirai has a 9th place GP in her resume.

I wouldn't have minded if Mirai had done like Evgenia and gone for miming her way through a program as long as it gained her points. That's how I feel anyway. I look at Ashley Wagner and all she did to rise in the ranks of U.S. skating after she was left off of the 2010 Olympic team. Ashley, like Evan Lysacek, left no stone unturned. She did all she could including adding transitions between jumps, her performance quality got better than ever and so on. I love Mirai, but I don't see that she has done that (or that Coach Tom Z encouraged her) to improve on that aspect of her skating. She absolutely showed performance quality in 2010-2011 and was rewarded for it when she hit. But then it seemed to slowly disappear after she matured. I'm very concerned but I'm not giving up hope on Mirai! She looked MAD after her FS and I hope it lights a fire in her! And I hope that they address the empty spots in her programs - and fast! The clock is ticking!

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Haha [emoji23]
I think uses her limbs quite well. But the face is a very important aspect of acting, if I do say so myself!

Of course it is. How can one act with just one's body and limbs and not try to express oneself with one's face?? Again, it's clearly not to everyone's taste here but I don't have a problem with it at all. It's part of the whole package. You're not going to project out to an audience just with your body while maintaining a blank expression on your face - That's no bueno either.

I've seen many a popular skater from the past like Sasha Cohen who tried to express themselves with their whole being, body and face as well and very successfully too. Michelle Kwan always seemed to smile throughout her programs and expressed herself (facially) in a more subtle manner but she was still trying to sell her program! Everyone has their own way, their own style.

It would appear that some feel that miming is not okay in figure skating - that's fine but that is their opinion. It's an art form, a way of expressing oneself when you're on a stage - like in ballet or other athletic art forms. The judges clearly don't have a problem with it in an artistic sport like figure skating - quite the opposite in fact - and why should they? There's nothing wrong with miming on the ice as part of the performance. When Javi has done it, like in his Chaplin program, I don't remember seeing this much hatred towards his performance, or at least not nearly as much as I seem to see for Evgenia's miming. I certainly don't recall such hatred for miming when it came from skaters like Elena Berezhnaya/Anton Sikharulidze either when did they did their own 'Chaplin' in their Pairs program.

Some even seem to have a problem with the 'angst' filled programs of other skaters for that matter. I've seen many a post against Ashley and any other skater who dares to show any 'angst' filled facial expression when they perform. Anguished/passionate/surprised looks are okay as long as it's not coming from Evgenia or Ashley or any other female skater - or so it seems. Rant over.

 

[lavender]

I kind of like Elena Radionova's program!!

Finally an Elena program that I kind of like.

 

[lavender]

It is her better program, but again, the music is too chopped up.

She skated beautifully and the mistake was very unlikely hers. But the program feels like it is trying too hard. Each music cut is very strong, so when putting it together and train noise in between, it is too rough and choppy.

Agree..

 

[lavender]

That in itself is crazy considering how much she flutzes and that her skating skills aren't even that good. +PCS for consistency from the Soviet satellite state judges though.

Lol....

 

[lavender]

Caroline.....true artist. It's hard to find these days.

 

[chuckm]

I enjoyed Carolina Kostner's Afternoon of a Faun freeskate far more than Evgenia's AK. Carolina is truly an artist on ice.

 

[qwertyskates]

I'm one of those who really dislike miming and acting to win PCS in skating, because I feel it takes away something from the sport, especially for female skaters. The top male skaters, Yuzu, Patrick, Shoma, Nathan, etc. simply don't mime or act anguished, pained, elated, cute, etc. Even high PCS skaters like Adam and Jason don't make faces. Plus, Javier when he is performing the Malagueña, his presence is that of supreme dignity. The funny face is part of his persona when he does the lighter pieces, because well, it's Javier.

To me, female skaters shouldn't be winning points for acting, beauty, etc., but for the very same skills and qualities that male skaters bring to the sport.

As for expressing the meaning of the music/piece, Sui/Han did it beautifully for Bridge Over Troubled Waters - every nuance was spoken for in their movements. That piece brings so much emotion for me. And...they didn't make crying faces. If they did, it would have completely spoiled the piece for me.

You mentioned ballet, but it is exactly the same, the movement of the dancers brings the story to life, even as the steps are fixed, it's not their facial acting.

It boils down to quality of choreography, quality of movement on ice and the issue of female dignity for me. I think Medvedeva will still win hands-down without the face-making, I like her and I'll prefer that she tells the story of AK with intricate, expressive movements, which I find lacking in her program, the way Yuzu does for Seimei or Nathan does for Mao's dancer or her compatriot Anna Pogorilaya does for Scent of a Woman.

 

[GGFan]

I'm one of those who really dislike miming and acting to win PCS in skating, because I feel it takes away something from the sport, especially for female skaters. The top male skaters, Yuzu, Patrick, Shoma, Nathan, etc. simply don't mime or act anguished, pained, elated, cute, etc. Even high PCS skaters like Adam and Jason don't make faces. Plus, Javier when he is performing the Malagueña, his presence is that of supreme dignity. The funny face is part of his persona when he does the lighter pieces, because well, it's Javier.

To me, female skaters shouldn't be winning points for acting, beauty, etc., but for the very same skills and qualities that male skaters bring to the sport.

As for expressing the meaning of the music/piece, Sui/Han did it beautifully for Bridge Over Troubled Waters - every nuance was spoken for in their movements. That piece brings so much emotion for me. And...they didn't make crying faces. If they did, it would have completely spoiled the piece for me.

You mentioned ballet, but it is exactly the same, the movement of the dancers brings the story to life, even as the steps are fixed, it's not their facial acting.

It boils down to quality of choreography, quality of movement on ice and the issue of female dignity for me. I think Medvedeva will still win hands-down without the face-making, I like her and I'll prefer that she tells the story of AK with intricate, expressive movements, which I find lacking in her program, the way Yuzu does for Seimei or Nathan does for Mao's dancer or her compatriot Anna Pogorilaya does for Scent of a Woman.

Everything is contextual. I will rarely say an absolute no to anything. I'm more practical: if you're going to stray from the classic or the standard you have a higher hurdle to make it work. There will be times when miming will be completely fine: a Charlie Chaplin program almost calls for it. Also, if someone has established that they can do other styles well and then they have a program in which they mime or use overwrought faces I'm much more likely to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Ultimately, I feel like miming is a cheap way to try to add drama or interpretation when you can't pull it off in other ways. Someone who does miming as an art is using it as their primary medium of expression. They've carefully considered all of the motions and how to use them to tell a story. We are discussing figure skating, so I'm expecting other things like skating skills, extension, etc. to do the bulk of the work. Miming should be used sparingly and with a purpose. When I see someone going to that well too many times it screams lazy choreography, lack of imagination, etc. If you had a program with miming, you should probably wait several years before you include it in a program again. As skaters, it's not as if they're doing an excellent job of the miming anyway. I'll be the first one to applaud a program if it uses miming in an interesting way that adds to the program and works in harmony with the music.