2017 GPF Short Dance

[IceDancingQueen]

Whoops ignore this post!

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Europe has been practically salivating to get the Dance Gold back for the last two Olympics. So I'm not surprised.

Totally agree with this. Europe does not want North America to have another Ice Dance Gold, especially for a team who already won it once. P&C will probably win in 2018 and 2022! I love this sport so much but I also really hate it because of all of this politicking and judging shenanigans.

 

[ChanClan]

What I don't understand is VMs lvl 3 ntmss when they've been getting lvl 4 all season. I agree that it did look shakier than previous comps but shouldn't that just affect the GOE? (which didn't because they still got perfect +3) I didn't see anything different but I'm no judge and don't have the same camera angles that the judges see so maybe they did make a mistake that is unnoticeable unless you have the extra camera angles.

 

[Anyasnake]

Europe has been practically salivating to get the Dance Gold back for the last two Olympics. So I'm not surprised.

Barring P/C all top teams are from NA. Even WeaPo are better than C/L but because of GP France disaster, they didn't make it.
It's one thing to salivate for a European Gold Medal, it's another when a team is worth it. Last quad, nobody barring V/M and D/W were worth it. Nothing to do with nationality.

 

[SimplyLex]

Great words from the British commentators after P/C's Short Dance : "One thing for sure, The last 10 minutes or so have been some of the best minutes ever in Dance competition".

He was refering to Both V/M and P/C.

I'm sorry but that's such an overstatement. Neither of those dances is a masterpiece and I am sure I will forget both pretty quickly.
Just go back in memory and remember DW and VM's original dances from the 2010 Olympics. Now THAT was something to remember.

 

[Anyasnake]

I'm sorry but that's such an overstatement. Neither of those dances is a masterpiece and I am sure I will forget both pretty quickly.
Just go back in memory and remember DW and VM's original dances from the 2010 Olympics. Now THAT was something to remember.

He didn't talk about the programs. He talked about the skating.
The format of the OD was... freer ? Definitely more genuine.

 

[Alba]

Barring P/C all top teams are from NA. Even WeaPo are better than C/L but because of GP France disaster, they didn't make it.
It's one thing to salivate for a European Gold Medal, it's another when a team is worth it. Last quad, nobody barring V/M and D/W were worth it. Nothing to do with nationality.

There is always politics involved in FS, especially ID. No doubt about that. Having said that, you need to back that politics with good skaters. That's why Russia dominated for a long time. People can whine all they want about cheating etc. but they did have the best ID. This time around, Europe has one team as well. So yeah, I am not surprised at all if there are things going on behind the scenes. In fact, I take that for granted tbh.

 

[SimplyLex]

He didn't talk about the programs. He talked about the skating.
The format of the OD was... freer ? Definitely more genuine.

"best minutes ever in a dance competition" indicates the whole picture, not just the quality of skating. No matter how wonderful the skating skills (which VM and PC definitely have), it's not "best minutes of ice dance" if the programs are just meh. I just disagree with his opinion, that's all.

Yes, ODs were so much more fun. However, DW's polka from 2013 is also an absolute masterpiece for the books and that was already the SD format. So it can be done.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Barring P/C all top teams are from NA. Even WeaPo are better than C/L but because of GP France disaster, they didn't make it.
It's one thing to salivate for a European Gold Medal, it's another when a team is worth it. Last quad, nobody barring V/M and D/W were worth it. Nothing to do with nationality.

But that's exactly it. P&C are the only hope for Europe to get that Gold back so the judges are rewarding them with WRs and not letting them lose that medal. Otherwise the scores between them and V&M would be a lot closer this year than they are. Look at least year, apart from the short dance where no one could compare with V&M, even when P&C made mistakes in their free dance the scores were still close. This year apart from Scott's step out from the swizzle in the SD at NHK, V&M have skated clean yet the judges aren't giving them as high of marks as P&C even though there really is nothing between them. Ice Dance has always had background politicking so it's naive to think otherwise.

 

[SimplyLex]

I think last Olympic season the judges really wanted to give that gold to DW so barring a disaster from them, they were a lock for gold no matter what VM would do.

Seems similar this year with PC. It's like someone decided that one OGM for Tessa and Scott was enough.

Mind you, I adore DW, was always team Meryl and Charlie, and thought they absolutely deserved that gold. But still.

 

[danse]

Random noob question - what does a T mean in the Rhumba key points? I've only ever noticed Y or N. Shibutani's seemed to have lost quite a bit on the Rhumba?

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Random noob question - what does a T mean in the Rhumba key points? I've only ever noticed Y or N. Shibutani's seemed to have lost quite a bit on the Rhumba?

It's timing issue. You not only have to hit the steps perfectly, but it has to be timed perfectly as well. When a team gets a "T" call, it means they hit the steps correctly but that they mistimed it. If they didn't hit the steps correctly, it would usually get a "N" even if there might be a timing issue as well.

 

[Anyasnake]

But that's exactly it. P&C are the only hope for Europe to get that Gold back so the judges are rewarding them with WRs and not letting them lose that medal. Otherwise the scores between them and V&M would be a lot closer this year than they are. Look at least year, apart from the short dance where no one could compare with V&M, even when P&C made mistakes in their free dance the scores were still close. This year apart from Scott's step out from the swizzle in the SD at NHK, V&M have skated clean yet the judges aren't giving them as high of marks as P&C even though there really is nothing between them. Ice Dance has always had background politicking so it's naive to think otherwise.

You know, when people talk about Europe you have to differenciate : The "eastern block" that you saw in the past for example. It's much harder to cheat today. If P/C had to go all politics, they'll have to count on their coaches... Which are the same as V/M.
Those teams just put the best out on the Ice and it shows.

Now talking about perofrmance, V/M had a WR in Canada, I don't call that "not rewarding". Last year P/C skated ONE clean SD only. They choked everytime they went against V/M. The difference today was just incredible, they looked focused.

Also, a 81+ score for V/M for a clearly not as good SD as before is very rewarding. Read the score sheet : ALL the judges (including the Canadian one) gave a +2 for the pattern. Which means they saw something we didn't.
The advantage V/M had against D/W before : long sweeping edges, flowing elements... They don't have that anymore against P/C. Those teams match WAY more on TES and PCS.
And V/M haven't skated clean all GP actually, I mean it wasn't something huge (except that twizzle stumble but even that wasn't sooo bad), but they made mistake where P/C used to make them last year : on the big elements like step sequences. It's not just GOEs down, it's a whole level which mean a whole 1.5 point down. It's massive.

Today, P/C were just MUCH cleaner on their elements, I think that's a no brainer. They have a "0.20" advantage in PCS, which translates in NOTHING if you take one component at a time (a difference of 0.02 to 0.05 only !).

A 0.5 point difference is still nothing at this point and it could go either way.

I might get hate for this but let's face it : some people (Not you IceDancingQueen, and I hope not) are trying to find excuses, the same way some people in the Canadian media are. Or maybe some people are watching too much of those media and in that case are getting the wrong info. Sometimes, when everyone is good, someone is just better. It doesn't have to be Tessa&Scott all the time. It actually wasn't them TODAY (They have been MUCH cleaner). I get that they are described as the best (because they are surely one of the best ID EVER), but if they got a WR with that skate today, now that would have been weird.
Sometimes you have to look at the scoring paper.
(Sorry for the rant but some twitter comments are annoying).

 

[Bcash]

People here seem to gripe about P/C's music choice. I personally do not love it or hate it, and they skated to the music very well.

Important thing is, from what I've read, the judges have been responding very well to Ed Sheeran remix, partly because it's something they never heard before and partly they feel it will bring in young people.

Christopher Dean made the music choice for this SD.

 

[JustMe]

Not shocked at all by the results as I am to see Maia do an extra turn on her twizzle, lol.

 

[dcnative]

This season SD is just really about levels and reputation.

Stop pretending like P/C or V/M has better dance or music because NOBODY is even close to capturing the latin flair. Hip shaking or caressing your partner doesnt do it.

ALL OF THIS. Except that I think that H/D captured the latin BALLROOM feel in their SD and that is the program I prefer above all this season.

 

[Alba]

You know, when people talk about Europe you have to differenciate : The "eastern block" that you saw in the past for example. It's much harder to cheat today.

Not really. Europe (meaning most european Fed's, or the biggest in Euro at least) will always be a block vs NA Fed (USA+CAN) and vice-versa. Italy & Russia, France & Russia has always been allies in that respect. Well, most of the time anyway.

If P/C had to go all politics, they'll have to count on their coaches... Which are the same as V/M.

Coaches have power up to a certain point. Their Fed's do the most of the work, when it comes to politicking.

 

[danse]

It's timing issue. You not only have to hit the steps perfectly, but it has to be timed perfectly as well. When a team gets a "T" call, it means they hit the steps correctly but that they mistimed it. If they didn't hit the steps correctly, it would usually get a "N" even if there might be a timing issue as well.

Thank you so much!

 

[dcnative]

You're exactly pointing at what I find totally off-putting about V/M's programs: I feel I'm being sold something by two extremely pushy sellers who have a great product but are sooooo shoving it in my face that I'm only wanting to get out of their clutches.
I am sure they are both super nice people, and they are incredible skaters, but they come on so strong with their merchandise that they leave no space for me to really look at it and evaluate it: they have decided for me that I need to buy their stuff. Sorry, it puts me off completely.

I think that V/M are wonderful, masterful ice dancers and Tessa has moves that most ladies don't get to display; that said, I am not a fan of their decision to return and because they oversell. I think they and a couple other teams are trying to capitalize on the fact that P/C will never have the "romanticizm" that other teams can have and so V&M are over selling on the "sexiness". I feel like it's get the gold no matter what with them and it's showing in their performances.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I think those who think the Shibs were overscored just aren't used to the idea of the Shibs scoring that well. IMO, their improvements since even last season is quite noticeable, their SD is well-choreographed and highlights their strengths, they increased the amount of dance, and yet haven't sacrificed their clear strengths which a mix of excellent skating skills with polish, finish, and cleanliness in everything that they do (head to toe). It's quite noticeable when you actively watch them and compare how they execute everything, especially crossovers, turns, steps, etc. with the other bronze medal contenders (and IMO even some gold medal contenders). IMO, their SD was not overscored because their performance was only worse than their performance at Skate America and with a clean, inspired skate with all levels hit and with a performance quality taken up just a bit, this SD is worthy of being 81+.