2018 Finlandia Trophy Free Dance

[pearly]

I've got a technical question regarding the scoring. How do you know how the judges scored individual skaters for the compulsory elements, for examples twizzles or step sequence? Where does it state that, for example, he received level 3 and she level 4? I tried to find this information in the protocols and cannot see it.

I think the level is awarded separately and they are scored as a team?

 

[BillNeal]

I've got a technical question regarding the scoring. How do you know how the judges scored individual skaters for the compulsory elements, for examples twizzles or step sequence? Where does it state that, for example, he received level 3 and she level 4? I tried to find this information in the protocols and cannot see it.

Example for one-foot step sequence: OFStL3+OFStM2: Lady's steps got level 3, Man's steps got level 2

Example for twizzles: SyTwL3+SyTwM4: Lady's twizzle set is at level 3, Man's is at level 4

Those are the only elements that score the partners separately.

 

[pearly]

Example for one-foot step sequence: OFStL3+OFStM2: Lady's steps got level 3, Man's steps got level 2

Example for twizzles: SyTwL3+SyTwM4: Lady's twizzle set is at level 3, Man's is at level 4

Those are the only elements that score the partners separately.

Tech pannel determines levels for each skater, but do the judges award GOEs separately or no?

 

[Ichatdelune]

I've got a technical question regarding the scoring. How do you know how the judges scored individual skaters for the compulsory elements, for examples twizzles or step sequence? Where does it state that, for example, he received level 3 and she level 4? I tried to find this information in the protocols and cannot see it.

I'm no ID expert, but for instance: OFStL2+OFStM3

as far as I know, that's a level 2 on the lady on the stsq, and level 3 on the man.

And for what I know, the tech panel calls the level individually and the judges give out GOE as a team.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Tech pannel determines levels for each skater, but do the judges award GOEs separately or no?

No, only for the team. Synhronicity, closeness, lines teams create together are big part of GOE bullets.

 

[Mohacz]

Example for one-foot step sequence: OFStL3+OFStM2: Lady's steps got level 3, Man's steps got level 2

Example for twizzles: SyTwL3+SyTwM4: Lady's twizzle set is at level 3, Man's is at level 4

Those are the only elements that score the partners separately.

Thanks a lot for all the answers. Now it's clear.

 

[LaArdilla]

Only the RD (I think it's Oblivion and something else). The FD is a top national secret. Nobody can know the music because the competitors could change the programs in the last minute.

Actually some French sport newspapers announced that their FD will be to two folk songs by Rachael Yamagata. We don’t know the titles, only that the main instrument will be guitar, not piano.

 

[BillNeal]

Tech pannel determines levels for each skater, but do the judges award GOEs separately or no?

From the SOV document (page 9), it seems like GOE are awarded separately:

Combination Set of Twizzles is evaluated as one unit by adding the Base Values of the Lady Set of Twizzles and Man Set of Twizzles and then applying the GOE. The GOE of the Combination Set of Twizzles is equal to the sum of the numerical values of the corresponding GOE of the Lady Set of Twizzles and Man Set of Twizzles

Combination One Foot Step Sequence is evaluated as one unit by adding the Base Values of the Lady One Foot Step Sequence and Man One Foot Step Sequence and then applying the GOE. The GOE of the Combination One Foot Step Sequence is equal to the sum of the numerical values of the corresponding GOE of the Lady One Foot Step Sequences and Man One Foot Step Sequence

From the tables, you can see rows of the scales corresponding to just the lady's part and just the man's part.

 

[Ichatdelune]

I have learned that I am Jon Snow in ID, I know nothing. And now I have to go to bed, it's 2 am and I have classes to attend (damn obligatory courses, grr). Thank you all for keeping me company!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

From the SOV document (page 9), it seems like GOE are awarded separately:





From the tables, you can see rows of the scales corresponding to just the lady's part and just the man's part.

Thats strange. What if twizzles/steps are far apart or not skated in synchro?

 

[BillNeal]

I have learned that I am Jon Snow in ID, I know nothing. And now I have to go to bed, it's 2 am and I have classes to attend (damn obligatory courses, grr). Thank you all for keeping me company!

Thanks for joining us. Ice dance, along with pairs to some degree, is the forgotten discipline, so the more the merrier .

 

[BillNeal]

Thats strange. What if twizzles/steps are far apart or not skated in synchro?

Ok dug a bit more into it (ISU Handbook - Page 36):

Question: During the Twizzles (Sequential and Synchronized), does an interruption (or fall) by one partner effect the level of the other partner?

Answer: No. Since the Technical panel evaluates each partner separately, the interruption (or fall) only affects the level of the partner who performed the error.

Comment: The judges still evaluate this element as a unit and must base their one GOE on the quality of execution of BOTH partners

...

Comment for next question and answer: However, error(s) resulting in a lower Level are evaluated per partner. Judges will evaluate the execution as a whole with one GOE based on the marking guide - GRADE OF EXECUTION of REQUIRED ELEMENTS (including CHOREOGRAPHIC ELEMENTS)

Somewhat conflicting information from the SOV document. I think numerically, it would make sense to evaluate the GOE separately when you have a level B twizzle called for one partner and a level 1+ twizzle called for the other partner. In the case of level B elements, they have a smaller corresponding GOE scale since they have lower BV.

 

[Mohacz]

Actually some French sport newspapers announced that their FD will be to two folk songs by Rachael Yamagata. We don’t know the titles, only that the main instrument will be guitar, not piano. [emoji846]

Haha, that is probably a smokescreen. They say they will use the guitar, some couples adjust their programs to follow the new trend and in the last moment P/C skate to a typical (for them) lyrical piano music.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Ok dug a bit more into it (ISU Handbook - Page 36):



Somewhat conflicting information from the SOV document. I think numerically, it would make sense to evaluate the GOE separately when you have a level B twizzle called for one partner and a level 1+ twizzle called for the other partner. In the case of level B elements, they have a smaller corresponding GOE scale since they have lower BV.

Yeah...probably if space between them is too big or they are not in synchro both partners separately dont get positive features and/or get negatives for their GOE... But judges are giving GOE not knowing the levels, so...

 

[NoNameFace]

I have to say that after seeing Stepanova/Bukin's FD (and how it was scored) things are getting quite interesting. The sole program is for me the best they ever had: it is a nice and pretty tasteful blend of youth and more mature element of sensualiity, the concept, music and this kind of expression suits them very much, for the first time I see them more into the program than more into its execution only. Yeah, it is a page taken from Hubbell/Donohue's FD last season and it needs more mileage, but at least it is a huge step forward from that overly sappy, pretentious FD to lyrical Liebestraum version. Liking musical choice, the concept and choreography actually (it is very 'them', with still quite significant accentuation of Alexandra's flexibility and long limbs, but it is somehow effective and works for them), however - I do wish Alexandra would hold positions, edges, lines longer and more 'into' ice, with lower center, more deep in the core and in knees to give that sweeping, continous impression more that suits the theme; she looks to perform and express mainly by her face, hand's gestures, upper body in general which comes off as a bit overdone at places for me whereas Ivan really gets the expression more thoroughly, by his whole body, its positions in partnering, lower on knees, going nicely with the music. I think this program is designed quite smartly, to bring good scores, it is not very experimental, it is well-thought and seems easy to perform well for them. They really could shake things up this season.

I am quite disappointed by Carolanne and Shane's FD, well both dances in general to be honest. Both seems for me just overdone, too much novelty and feeling of concept/idea prevailing over actual performance. I am really thrown off by musical arrangement in that FD, I feel a dissonance between their movement and rhythm, the movement is just too much for me of 'I am so sexy and sensual'. And somehow I see their skating to take a step backward technically and performance-wise - they were just sharper, more charming and convincing last season in my opinion.

The program I enjoyed the most was Marie-Jade and Romain's, to my utter surprise . After huge reservation after announcement and seeing it earlier this season I think they progressed leaps and bounds with it - everything felt on point with the music, costumes nicely fit within the program (props for not being matchy-matchy, too crazy or too conservative, I love sleek catsuit with sparkle and bold lip with Romain's more colourful jacket and shirt), there was so nicely flowing energy and nothing felt heavy or labored. I like the lightness in attitude and something fresh and energetic done to pop music with taste, thought and controlled abandon. Their lifts are looking very strong and effective, some transitions need more polish, but they are on the right track I think. She is looking like having time of her life, I love how expressive performer she is!

I am a bit confused about Olivia/Adrian's FD... It is quite...empty and non-descript? There is too much casuality in it: from costumes through unfinished movement that probably is supposed to feel free and natural (and it is not, seeming rather empty, meaningless and as an afterthought a bit) to the nonexistent connection between all of that with Beatles music in my opinion. All is pretty, but too much of one note for me.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I'm no ID expert, but for instance: OFStL2+OFStM3

as far as I know, that's a level 2 on the lady on the stsq, and level 3 on the man.

And for what I know, the tech panel calls the level individually and the judges give out GOE as a team.

Protocols always identify the element first, such fas OFStL. That means "One Foot Step Sequence, Lady." Doris and I identify it as a NT or Not Touching Step Sequence, but same difference. The final number indicates the level of difficulty assigned by the tech panel. In this case, the "lady's" one step sequence met the requirements for level 2.

As Bill said above, twizzles and step sequences are now judged on an individual basis. Each partner is given a separate score.

GOEs are determined for the couple as a whole.

So: tech is scored individually; quality is scored on a team basis.

Sorry I missed doing the PBP, but my Mom is sick and I had to take care of her.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I think it's going to be P/C vs. W/P for World Gold. H/D took a huge step backwards with their free dance this season.

Too early to tell Unlike Juniors, Seniors often tinker with their programs throughout the season, up to Worlds. So far, in Juniors, I have only seen ONE team do that with their FD.

Also, some teams tend to be "late season bloomers." Certainly Virtue and Moir tended to do better in the latter half of the season, than in the first half.

Plus, the 5 point scale of GOEs is now changing the game, because as we have seen already, a team with a lower tech level can still win an event if they make up that difference with high GOEs.

 

[lauravvv]

They were at Lombardia Trophy (were they placed 3rd). And now they are probably preparing for their GP events (Rostelecom Cup and Helsinki).

I know, but they were entered here as well until very recently. Maybe they WD a long time ago and it wasn't updated, but I wondered if it had anything to do with S/D coming here.

Sara has an injury. Something with her stomach (it was in her Instagram stories - she showed being checked).

I think it's going to be P/C vs. W/P for World Gold. H/D took a huge step backwards with their free dance this season.

Or, rather, it will be P/C vs. no one for gold. And probably W/P vs. H/D for silver. But S/B and C/B may take part in that battle as well.

 

[Ice Dance]

So one thing I noticed is that Montreal teams are doing the sultry/hip contemporary routines this season and yet H/D are doing R&J

DiCaprio R&J, which is relatively contemporary.

Smart & Diaz are doing the Beatles, which is less contemporary. (Personally, I do not think the shirt qualifies the Beatles as sultry & hip).
Fournier-Beaudry & Sorenson have kept their flamenco from last season.
Komatsubara & Koleto are skating to Love Story.
Chock & Bates are doing Elvis.
Lajoie & Lagha have Warsaw Concerto.
Fisher & Mallette-Paquette have Les Mis.

 

[dorispulaski]

I need this program explained to me. Where is Doris?

I wish I recognized the music so the costumes made sense.

Really laboured strait line lift there.

Hungarians: she is summer and he is Attila the Hun.

Very Close. She is Mother Earth. The song is "Madre Terra" by Globus. He is some random dude from Mt. Kisco with a Hungarian last name, possibly dressed as some Hun archetype- Attila as good a guess as any.

When you mix choreographers Melissa Gregory and Denis Petukhov with Globus' choral music, odd stuff can happen.

Anyone remember their show program with Johnny Weir," Fallen Angels" to " Sarabande Suite?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o59RIfDUT8