2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[flanker]

The trainers of those three Russians in training for World Championships have taken notice no doubt. What is the tally of Rika vs 3A again?

No doubt she is formidable opponent, but she cannot force fate to bring herself a Gold medal. If everybody is 100% healthy and on game, the competition in Montreal will be very exciting.

It's zero for Rika till now. In 2017-2018 season she was defeated by Aliona Kostornaia in Italy (and both were defeated by Sofia Samodurova that time, also she was defeated by Panenkova in Latvia), in JGPF she was fourth after Sasha, Aliona and Anastasia Tarakanova. In WJC 2018 Rika had a bad free skate and finished 8th. This season she was defeated by Sasha in Canada and by Aliona in NHK, then by all 3A in JGPF.

Not that it can't be different at worlds if she skates clean and some of the 3A not, but I would prefer not to start a discussion that already exists in her FF about how it is all only because of the unfair judging.

 

[Fluture]

They have, but it seems that some power is allowed and some is not and the difference is in the target, not in the formulation.

No. Never.

And your “what-about-ism“ is mildly annoying to amusing usually but now it is, to my mind, unacceptable. EVERYONE deserves basic respect. No matter who they are. NO ONE deserves to have their body discussed in a way said poster did. I know who you‘re talking about and saying:

“XY looks fat and needs to lose kilos.“ is as unacceptable as “Y looks anorexic and needs to gain weight.“

We should not diagnose from afar. That‘s dangerous and unhealthy. No medical professional would ever do that. And people who indeed were doing that have always been called out on this forum and rightly so.

Now, the difference is if there‘s openly recorded and potentially dangerous behavior. Speculation about that is just as bad if it crosses a line. But worrying is not. Concern is not. I‘ll give you an example. Let‘s leave Gubanova or any skater out of the equation, though:

Now, if a skater had said they were surviving only on chocolate and cake because it gives better energy for training, I would have worried and hoped that said skater would get nutritional advice because a diet like this is not sustainable.

Likewise, if there are interviews from skaters openly discussing known unhealthy eating habits such as extreme dieting or meticulously looking after each and every gram in hopes of not gaining weight at all, I will express concern as well and hope for a professional to take over the situation.

These two are strictly different and any topic revolving weight needs to be handled with care. Disordered eating is no joke, people suffer from it and the mental as well as physical consequences can be unimaginable. Sweeping the fact that disordered eating exists under the rug is dangerous, just as talking wrongly about it is. So, if there’s potentially dangerous behavior, it should come up in discussion. But with the necessary respect and care.

I‘m no expert either and probably no one on this forum is. But most of us know that there‘s a line you do not cross. No matter who the discussion is about.

I realize I can not forbid anyone from speaking their mind. I also realise I am adamant about this but this is not a conversation about judging or jumping technique or whatever. This is serious. People can be harmed by this. I have seen firsthand what carelessness can do to someone who‘s already struggling. It may seem like an internet forum only but we don’t know who might stumble across goldenskate and kind of demons they might be battling. That‘s all.

 

[Fluture]

Are we worried about Rika Kihira's 156 points at Challenge Cup? :think:

I‘m happy for her, she skated a great FS. To me it certainly seems like she‘s the only skater who can contend with the 3A right now. She had a pretty rough SP and still got a total of 230. That makes her look like a serious rival. 3A will definitely need to be on their game and skate cleanly. Sasha cannot afford a skate like at Nats and Euros. Rika will need to be clean as well, though, skates like at GPF likewise can’t happen for her. Personally, I think it‘s exciting. I love the 3A (and Rika tbh) but some serious competition won‘t hurt them, it will only inspire them to improve.

 

[Spirals for Miles]

Are we worried about Rika Kihira's 156 points at Challenge Cup? :think:

I'm not.

Team Tutberidze seems to show up really strong at Worlds (Alina last year , for example), so I think Sasha will be cleaner. A Sasha with even a couple of mistakes can beat 156. Alena got almost 156 with a fall on her 3Lz at Euros. Anna beat 156 at Euros even with some errors/harsh calls. And while there's no guarantee that the 3A will be clean at Worlds, this also applies to Rika, especially if she introduces the 4S again. So, I think the 3A are looking pretty strong. It will be the SP that will decide a lot, though, I think. If Sasha lands her 3A there, she won't be so far behind coming into the free, and Anna scores well with even a 2A, and of course Alena holds the WR for the SP. I'm thinking and hoping that the 3A will sweep the medals at Worlds #AnnaShcherbakovaForWorldChampion2020

 

[flanker]

I was just answering the question of “What harm can come of it?” I didn’t say anything is allowed or disallowed. Just adding to the discussion by pointing out that IMO harm can in fact come from such posts on the internet.

People are free to carry on and post whatever they like as far as I’m concerned.

Yes, of course some things can appear harmful to someone and not to someone else, but people are very different in this and that is one of the big problems of such forum, esp. when those people come from a completely different background. For me as a middle/eastern European it sometimes comes even absolutely funny what can be seen as "harmful" or "toxic" etc. in United States or some other western country and of course a vice versa we have another things that we consider as "untouchable" and which are not perceived that way in the west.

Still there are things that I think are universal. But, in the history of RLT (and other threads as well) I've read many speculative, sometimes harmful or aggressive comments (IMO universally) about such topics (skaters weight, health), and not only they often weren't met with such rejection we see today (to a post that in my eyes doesn't appear speculative, aggressive or harmful, just posting an opinion), sometimes they were openly welcomed and praised. That's what I was poining out in the former comment.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Yes, of course some things can appear harmful to someone and not to someone else, but people are very different in this and that is one of the big problems of such forum, esp. when those people come from a completely different background. For me as a middle/eastern Eurpean it sometimes comes even absolutely funny what can be seen as "hamrful" or "toxic" etc. in United States or some other western country and of course a vice versa we have another things that we consider as "untouchable" and which are not perceived that way in the west.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It’s hard to remove ourselves from our cultural norms when we step out of our cultural bubbles and into international forums such as this. Everyone is free to maneuver in ways they see as fit and hopefully with intent to better enlighten and add to discussions.

I do however think a statement like “she needs to lose weight” is actually an incorrect statement most all of the time. Anyone who has worked with professional trainers and elite athletes or even just “normal person exercise” knows that this is a phrasing that is misleading and often harmful to gaining actual results. Weight may be lost or gained based on training regimens but that is not the actual goal in almost every instance. In general becoming more fit and optimizing your maximum output has very little to do with weight. Especially when discussing elite athletes. It may come as a result or the opposite may happen when we look to maximize our strength and overall fitness.

Still there are things that I think are universal. But, in the history of RLT (and other threads as well) I've read many speculative, sometimes harmful or aggressive comments (IMO universally) about such topics (skaters weight, health), and not only they often weren't met with such rejection we see today (to a post that in my eyes doesn't appear speculative, aggressive or harmful, just posting an opinion), sometimes they were openly welcomed and praised. That's what I was poining out in the former comment.

I don’t try to police people. I say put the energy into the world you wish to receive in return.

Many of us know people who have or ourselves have had a struggle with eating disorders and all most certainly to varying degrees. It’s not taboo or off limits in a discussion but when people recognize triggers and understand how words in particular can take root into someone’s mind in very destructive and often long term ways....you can bet that people will react to it.

I don’t think “losing weight” is the same as getting more fit. It’s a notable distinction that I’m not sure everyone understands.

 

[brakes]

I'm not.

Team Tutberidze seems to show up really strong at Worlds (Alina last year , for example), so I think Sasha will be cleaner. A Sasha with even a couple of mistakes can beat 156. Alena got almost 156 with a fall on her 3Lz at Euros. Anna beat 156 at Euros even with some errors/harsh calls. And while there's no guarantee that the 3A will be clean at Worlds, this also applies to Rika, especially if she introduces the 4S again. So, I think the 3A are looking pretty strong. It will be the SP that will decide a lot, though, I think. If Sasha lands her 3A there, she won't be so far behind coming into the free, and Anna scores well with even a 2A, and of course Alena holds the WR for the SP. I'm thinking and hoping that the 3A will sweep the medals at Worlds #AnnaShcherbakovaForWorldChampion2020

Yeah, but math says: Rika's best short is 84, add that to 156 and you get 240, which is the exact top score of all three Russian ladies. It would mean, that from an outsider at GPF, she's becoming a contender for Worlds. Numbers don't lie.

 

[KOBOT37]

For me, anything less than 250 points from Alexandra and Anna will be disappointing, so I am not that worried about Rika

P.S Personal best For Alena is 247.

 

[Edwin]

Tutberidze's Show of Champions just announced another stop, April 25 in Krasnodar. Only one session apparently, but Krasnodar is where it all started last year: https://www.instagram.com/leaderconcert/

Now, news emerged that a second stop has been added: April 26 in Adler (near Sochi).

Also seems the announced Novosibirsk stop was a fluke, but we only know when the official schedule will be posted.

Zagitova might be touring Japan during the same time.

Tutberidze getting some presents: https://www.instagram.com/p/B89HEB_J0aO/

Apollinaria's musical medley celebrating Eteri Georgiyevna's birthday: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Rph1qmnE6w

 

[flanker]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying. It’s hard to remove ourselves from our cultural norms when we step out of our cultural bubbles and into international forums such as this. Everyone is free to maneuver in ways they see as fit and hopefully with intent to better enlighten and add to discussions.

I do however think a statement like “she needs to lose weight” is actually an incorrect statement most all of the time. Anyone who has worked with professional trainers and elite athletes or even just “normal person exercise” knows that this is a phrasing that is misleading and often harmful to gaining actual results. Weight may be lost or gained based on training regimens but that is not the actual goal in almost every instance. In general becoming more fit and optimizing your maximizing output has very little to do with weight. Especially when discussing elite athletes. It may come as a result or the opposite may happen when we look to maximize our strength and overall fitness.

It's bold statement, but generally body weight as a neutral topic is completely normal thing in sport, athletes are weighing themselves not only in Eteri's camp or in Russia or in figure skating as it looks from some comments sometimes. There is always some optimum for anyone. In the discussion such as this it depends on the way it is said. To me, what KOBOT has said wasn't directed personally, it had no speculative content (doesn't say anything whether he was right or not), while countless other discussions about this topic that were directly aimed at particular skaters contained precisely this: were hostile, speculative, harmful and only hidden behind that magical word "concern". They were repetitive, not taking into account what was said before, e.g. when it was pointed out that some quote was ripped out of the context or even completely changed or twisted, just forcing the obvious agenda of particular users. That's why I find this crusade against KOBOT so funny and that's why it always looks to me that in some cases is allowed practically everything while in some other cases is allowed absolutely nothing.

Yes, all athletes deserve the same respect but definitely not all of them receive it. Not here.

I don’t try to police people.

No, you're definitely not. We may disagree on some topics, but I think we are able to discuss our different opinions quietly and with respect. While I admit that with some I'm unable to do that and maybe I'm the one to blame.

I say put the energy into the world you wish to receive in return.

Many of us know people who have or ourselves have had a struggle with eating disorders and all most certainly to varying degrees. It’s not taboo or off limits in a discussion but when people recognize triggers and understand how words in particular can take root into someone’s mind in very destructive and often long term ways....you can bet that people will react to it.

I don’t think “losing weight” is the same as getting more fit. It’s a notable distinction that I’m not sure everyone understands.

I absolutely agree on that, but as for the bold part, the problem is that personal bias speaks too much into this discussion.

 

[SkateSkates]

Are we worried about Rika Kihira's 156 points at Challenge Cup? :think:

Rika is absolutely a threat now that she has her Lutzes back. If she skates her SP clean with a backloaded combo + a similar performance to her LP at Challenge Cup (which IMO was harshly scored) she is right up there for a podium placement. It all depends on how cleanly everyone executes their content, but I think she should be considered a threat if not a favorite for a medal. If anyone other than 3A + Rika ends up on the worlds podium I will be extremely surprised.

 

[Fluture]

Yeah, but math says: Rika's best short is 84, add that to 156 and you get 240, which is the exact top score of all three Russian ladies. I would mean, that from an outsider at GPF, she's becoming a contender for Worlds. Numbers don't lie.

I think Rika‘s been a medal contender all season long, though. Her SB was 233 something without even a lutz. That‘s quite something. She needs to skate cleanly but so does everyone else. It‘s true that Tutberidze skaters tend to be well prepared for Worlds so I think we‘ll see skates close to perfection from all three. But Rika‘s an amazing skater as well and if she’s clean... who knows what will happen? I think it‘s good. For the 3A, for the sport. Nothing worrisome, imo. Exciting, rather!

 

[Arbitrary]

Thank you for those pertinent points about how wait about figure skaters is such a sensitive issue and why it should be treated as such. I think nastia has gotten a little slimmer since the beginning of the season. But again I think she's just been growing up. I don't think it's fat. The girl is fighting for her career going through all the physical changes it can't be easy. The same goes for millions of other girls.
Truth.


Nutritional advice or the lack thereof is a major issue with athletes especially from certain countries. but let's be honest it's up to the parents to get more involved the coaches for instance in Russia how to do one thing and that's win baby win. I wasn't there just to a Russian rhythmic gymnast who tried to kill herself? Poor girl something hurt her deeply.

As for the world championship the door is open for all the top contenders. Eteri was disappointed in 3A at Europeans even though they dominated they were not their normal greatness. The door is ajar if a Leona or a don't shut it.

That poor girl actively denied it was a suicide attempt. Ok, we may read between the lines, but it looks more like a "pay me some attention" request.

 

[Scott512]

That poor girl actively denied it was a suicide attempt. Ok, we may read between the lines, but it looks more like a "pay me some attention" request.

I hope you are right. But the issues are real. Especially for girls and women.

 

[LenaRadiFan]

Well said. BOTs focusing on Gubanovas supposed excess weight is not supposed to be allowed here is it? It looks like muscle to me. She does not look fat at all. She's not a twig so that surprising people I guess. Nastyas body fat % is probably very healthy.


He fell for it hook line and sinker.

Agree, losing muscle also can be very dangerous in competitive sport. Even in figure skating there are different body types and just because someone has more muscular legs or is a little more 'compactly-built' does not mean that their body is the problem(I think in the high competitive levels 97% during the season problems are definitely not related to body lol)

 

[KOBOT37]

Out of curiosity, am I allowed to say "this guy is too short to play in NBA" or is this also body shaming ?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Yikes...when we start going off the rails we go all in

I noticed today that Polina Shelepen posted a Bday wish to Eteri and thanked her for everything. Is it translated correctly that she said Eteri has been there for her for most of her life? That’s good to hear! For those of you that don’t remember aPolina or know what she’s up to she was one of Eteri’s first students to gain success and is now herself a coach too.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B88SpcLIAVy/?igshid=17glayi5ir0hp

 

[Tolstoj]

Gubanova was at CSKA. She didn't manage to stay there.

EDITid you mean that CSKA doesn't have support ?! Interesting claim if so

Sure, Eteri's Skaters have some extra push from Federation, but You need to get there first and then stay there.

Gubanova moving to CSKA was her chance to get some recognition, she did really well with Turenko and never got rewarded for it (they placed Konstantinova ahead of her many times in spite of less clean performances, less consistency,...).

We can discuss for hours about how her season went there but in a nutshell, she missed her chance for a GP spot by not skating well at Tallinn Trophy, otherwise she would have had at least one GP spot this season.

The way i see it is that Buyanova got rid of her as soon as her chances to get a GP spot for the next season vanished. She did the same with Tsurskaya (retired) and Sotskova (switched to Sokolovskaya, transition to retirement).

The other problem is that the best coaches for Ladies at that club were Davydov (who only coaches juniors for some reason), and Goncharenko (she left the club). Neither options were available so realistically Gubanova would have probably had to leave anyway sooner rather than later.

CSKA without Tarasova as main coach, is not the same club it used to be. The only thing that stays the same is the backing.

and who stopped Gubanova from picking up that Momentum? Probably, uh... herself during short program at Nationals ?

Absolutely, i'd say the difference is when RusFed is pushing you even if you make a mistake in the short, they'll overscore the free to compensate (they did it with Sinitsyna this year, and others in the past), while if they don't as soon as you make a mistake you're done.

That said 10th at Russian Nationals is not a terrible result, she did comeback in the free and she did well at the Cup Final. I wouldn't consider this season bad, she did fine at most events.

Now she's with a caring coaching team who is willing to help her growing, and not rushing for quick results, as they did with Leonova, Aliev, Ignatov,... Rukavicin's group is the best choice for her right now. Plus puberty is gone, and her technique is still very solid.

 

[flanker]

Yikes...when we start going off the rails we go all in

I noticed today that Polina Shelepen posted a Bday wish to Eteri and thanked her for everything. Is it translated correctly that she said Eteri has been there for her for most of her life? That’s good to hear! For those of you that don’t remember aPolina or know what she’s up to she was one of Eteri’s first students to gain success and is now herself a coach too.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B88SpcLIAVy/?igshid=17glayi5ir0hp

That says a lot.

 

[silveruskate]

A professional athlete can be completely healthy and still need to lose weight,is this news for you ? Then let me tell you truly a horrible thing, not only 'healthy' athletes sometimes need to lose weight, sometimes athletes even need to get down to unhealthy weight or engage in unhealthy weight cutting practices to stay competitive.

How do you even know this? Is it sustainable? Do you know that the athlete may be keeping a weight that might be unhealthy by normal metric but a doctor is making sure they are still healthy? Are other options like gaining muscle better? Maybe better training techniques?

You literally know nothing and have so so many gaps in your knowledge, but still do not caveat what you say. There is no obvious sign at all that the athlete is overweight, or that it is the problem either. Instead you made it sound like "this is the only option (and implying it's the good choice), or else just keep complaining with your fans (bad choice)".