2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[moriel]

It's about the principle of the situation, not the "law". Just because it wasn't written anywhere it doesn't mean that it's not bad. Daniil clearly knows that what he did was wrong as per his reaction. This is ridiculous defending.

It is law, sorry. The moral aspect is simple: its not copyrighted, which means it is free to use. There is no guilt in using something that is free to use.
What aggravates it for me is that she clearly did not try to do any negotiations before starting a public "poostorm", as in contacting the people and requesting to have the copied part changed/removed.

Bully as it is.

Deleting comments is the right attitude: if the author wants some reasonable discussion, this discussion will be done in private. Public discussions are poostorm and bullying pure and simple.

UPD: in fact, she wrote herself that Daniil contacted her to aplogise. That is the right attitute: delete "poostorm" comments, and solve the issues in private.

 

[DanseMacabre]

I think you write here about the legal aspects, but there are also the ethical aspects. And we all can see that the choreo is copied.

Right. It shows a huge lack of respect and professional courtesy for one choreographer to copy another choreographer's work without permission or at the very least credit regardless of whether or not it's legally classified as copyright infringement. Copying someone else's work is poor form, plain and simple.

 

[Vandevska]

Okay people you need to seriously stop justifying people's actions only now when it fits your narrative.

 

[fabienne1996]

It is law, sorry. The moral aspect is simple: its not copyrighted, which means it is free to use. There is no guilt in using something that is free to use.
What aggravates it for me is that she clearly did not try to do any negotiations before starting a public "poostorm", as in contacting the people and requesting to have the copied part changed/removed.

Bully as it is.

Deleting comments is the right attitude: if the author wants some reasonable discussion, this discussion will be done in private. Public discussions are poostorm and bullying pure and simple.

What is wrong is that daniil should have contacted her before copying one one one. And not the other way. But hey no he didn't do anything wrong, its always the others who do something wrong. .

 

[NoviceFan]

It is law, sorry. The moral aspect is simple: its not copyrighted, which means it is free to use. There is no guilt in using something that is free to use.
What aggravates it for me is that she clearly did not try to do any negotiations before starting a public "poostorm", as in contacting the people and requesting to have the copied part changed/removed.

Bully as it is.

Actually, legally he is not really off the hook because the choreography he allegedly copied is not copyrighted. In common law, there is a thing called unjust enrichment - Daniil got paid and professionally credited for choreography that he did not create. I am not saying that he should be sued. I am just saying that under the law, copyright is not the only grounds for a lawsuit.

Disclaimer - I don't care either way, just wanted to set that straight. If we have any other attorneys here with better understanding of common law, I am happy to be corrected.

 

[moriel]

I think you write here about the legal aspects, but there are also the ethical aspects. And we all can see that the choreo is copied.

Ethical aspect: nothing wrong about copying something free to copy.
Example: people copy ballet choreo into FS all time. Noone freaks out about that.

 

[moriel]

Actually, legally he is not really off the hook because the choreography he allegedly copied is not copyrighted. In common law, there is a thing called unjust enrichment - Daniil got paid and professionally credited for choreography that he did not create. I am not saying that he should be sued. I am just saying that under the law, copyright is not the only grounds for a lawsuit.

Disclaimer - I don't care either way, just wanted to set that straight. If we have any other attorneys here with better understanding of common law, I am happy to be corrected.

Not really. This is very easily contested in cases where is no transfer of money or goods.

 

[NoviceFan]

Not really. This is very easily contested in cases where is no transfer of money or goods.

Mmmm...Daniil works for free?

This is not a school play or a private performance. I think probably why Ms. Gomez stressed that in her instagram post ("broadcasted on national television").

 

[ruga]

Gomez clearly said that it is not copyrighted and she is just seeking to tell everyone that this choreo is actually hers not Daniil's. A very reasonable wish I'd say. She probably doesn't want and won't get any monetary compensation.

 

[moriel]

Mmmm...Daniil works for free?

there was no transfer of goods or money between daniil and gomez.

unjust enrichment is very debatable here, i mean, very.

 

[moriel]

Gomez clearly said that it is not copyrighted and she is just seeking to tell everyone that this choreo is actually hers not Daniil's. A very reasonable wish I'd say. She probably doesn't want and won't get any monetary compensation.

Yep, its not copyrighted, and she is bullying Daniil and Alina (see all the comments on her instagram)

 

[NoviceFan]

there was no transfer of goods or money between daniil and gomez.

Sorry what? Why would there be a transfer of goods or money between Daniil and Gomez?

Daniil presumably got paid to choreographed a performance in FaOI. That's why he got "enriched," aside from the professional credit he received for "choreographing' the program. That's your transfer of money.

 

[lesnar001]

Are you being serious right now? There are so many comments under Jojo's post defending Alina that I basically saw almost no comments towards her. And what I saw (which were less than 3) were from people who aren't involved in FS. If you're trying to cherry pick comments, then what do you have to say about Daniil deleting Jojo's personal comment and then blocking people who were calling him out? Guilty much?

Yes I am being serious.

Calling someone a "expletive deleted" copycat is hateful.
I'm just glad she can't read English. Because that person "tagged" her in their post (or whatever the term is called)

Even one post like that is disgusting.

I didn't enter this discussion because of Daniil and his choreography.

I entered it to point out that Alina has gotten some backlash over it.
And the original poster was correct to point it out.
I don't think what I pointed out above is made any less disgusting just because the overwhelming sentiment in that IG post is positive towards her.

 

[Vandevska]

Yes I am being serious.

Calling someone a "expletive deleted" copycat is hateful.
I'm just glad she can't read English. Because that person "tagged" her in their post (or whatever the term is called)

Even one post like that is disgusting.

I didn't enter this discussion because of Daniil and his choreography.

I entered it to point out that Alina has gotten some backlash over it.
And the original poster was correct to point it out.
I don't think what I pointed out above is made any less disgusting just because the overwhelming sentiment in that IG post is positive towards her.

Okay, fair enough then, I didn't know the first intention. Even if she has seen the video or whatever, people should indeed not go after her but after Daniil, since he is the credited "choreographer".

 

[sx98423]

Ethical aspect: nothing wrong about copying something free to copy.
Example: people copy ballet choreo into FS all time. Noone freaks out about that.

theres a big difference between copying ballet choreo which has been copied thousands of times around the world and this situation. when you're copying ballet everyone knows parts of the choreo are not original and has been copied. anyone watching a swan lake program would recognize what ballet the program was inspired by. here i assumed that alina's program was daniil's original work until i watched jojo's video. it's wrong since he's trying to pass off something which is clearly someone else's work as his own.

 

[flanker]

There is always some form of imitating/copying in such human activity as figure skating. It starts from the music and basic theme. It mostly comes from something known, whether it is the movie, music theme, book or any other piece of art. It continues with costumes. They are again mostly created to remind something known, to which spectators can connect. It's nothing new here, just some people are bored during cucumber season (I don't know whether this term is used in english, in czech it means exactly the period we are in now), so pseudoproblems like this are always welcomed, esp. when those people waited so long for such opportunity and now breaked the cover, even if it is caused by something so petty. Recently we had very delighted reaction on Alina's Black Swan program used music from Moonlight, remember? Not a word about copying, crator was delighted. That's how normal people react.

 

[Vandevska]

The bias is through the roof right now.

 

[flanker]

theres a big difference between copying ballet choreo which has been copied thousands of times around the world and this situation. when you're copying ballet everyone knows parts of the choreo are not original and has been copied. anyone watching a swan lake program would recognize what ballet the program was inspired by. here i assumed that alina's program was daniil's original work until i watched jojo's video. it's wrong since he's trying to pass off something which is clearly someone else's work as his own.

Everything that was "copied thousands of times" was copied for the first time once. And, btw, I didn't see any triple in the video which should probably cause my ethical indignation.

 

[SnowWhite]

There's no reason for Alina to get criticized for it, but it is tacky of Daniil to have more or less directly copied much the choreo imo. It would be a bit different to me if it was choreography from the music video (which I would consider more similar to copying movements from the ballet of a piece of ballet music). I don't necessarily think he needed to contact her for permission, but he could have done something like say the ex was inspired by her choreo to the music in an Instagram post or something - that would be giving her credit for her work. And Alina is a very high profile athlete, so a lot of people are going to see the work and it would have been smart to admit where the movements came from from the start.

Whether or not the response of the artist was appropriate is kind of separate from whether or not what Daniil did initially was uncool, which I kind of think it was.

 

[fabienne1996]

The bias is through the roof right now.

I would say stop trying because they don't want to see that what daniil did was wrong. Stop wasting your time on them.