2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[TheBallerina]

We are not even saying anything against alina. Lol. Since she isn't responsible for any of it. And its not complaining. As I see it the discussion here is not even so much about the thing itself but about the fact that what he did was wrong and a certain group of users don't fi d anything wrong with what he did. And another part finds something wrong with it. I isn't making the situation worse. So stop trying to shift the blame of this discussion on as you call it a certain group

I should make myself clear. I did not say that anyone here said anything bad about Alina. And I also said that Daniil made a mistake. So we agree on this.

Regarding the other part that you posted, that some users think that he did nothing wrong, some users think he did, well everyone is entitled to their opinion, and it's not helpful to continuously try to convince the other side if some only have different opinions.

My opinion was just that many are way, way overreacting and it's making it even worse. You can think that they are not, and then let's agree to disagree and move on.

 

[TheBallerina]

Bad joke coming: for those that complain that they don't like Daniil's choreo for Alina and that she should get choreo from someone else, you should be satisfied with this EX :agree:

I love this!

 

[Tolstoj]

To be honest, I see Jojo Gomez as villain here.
The choreo IS NOT COPYRIGHTED, as she said it herself in the comments. Which means she owns nothing, and she is basically bullying Daniil and Alina.


And I say this as a fellow artist who had quite a few copyright issues before. If there is no copyright, well, you own nothing there.

Well it's like an unspoken rule among artists to not steal other people's work, idk in Russia but in the West plagiarism is considered shameful even when it is legal.

Some people clearly used this mistake to spread hate which is sad (that's internet), i don't think this is as much as a big deal and Daniil apologized, but i wouldn't blame the artist for that post either saying she's bullying Alina or Daniil, this is her work after all.

 

[flanker]

Another point is that it just makes Daniil look like a bad and uncreative choreographer. First of all, so not cool to copy someones creative outlet which they worked hard on and is their original work..I don't think Daniil would be too happy if someone would copy one of the programs he choreographed and performed it as a dance. Second it really makes him look very uncreative that he apparently cannot choreograph a program on his own to that song but copies another choreo almost to a tee? Without crediting that person? It baffles me how many people here are defending Daniil right now

Daniil made more than 200 choreos already, for boys, girls, men, ladies, pairs. He definitely is not "uncreative". In fact those are such conclusions that make me defending him

 

[madison]

I think what Daniil did was unethical. I don't know if he deliberately copied the choreo expecting that no one would notice (which would be naive tbh) or if he simply made a mistake and forgot to give credit (it happens, we can't really know)

What matters now is that the original choreographer said that he apologized directly to her and she seems cool about it now. She mentioned that what really upset her was not getting the credit, so maybe now that it's not such a big deal to the involved parties, we can all also move on...

Bad joke coming: for those that complain that they don't like Daniil's choreo for Alina and that she should get choreo from someone else, you should be satisfied with this EX :agree:

She (Jojo Gomez) isn't cool about anything, even though Daniil publicly apologiezed and gave her credit. She keeps writing under Alina's posts DM, which means she wrote to Alina in Direct (several times, it seems).
If you ask me, she wants advertising and some money.

 

[thatbeatingheart]

[...]

As for defence, I've seen so many attacks on the team without any reason or with completely false reason/accusation during just one year that I have no problem to defend them anytime, when I see something I've seen so many times, by which I mean what I've written, people prepared and desperately waiting for literally anything to use it for the purpose.

It's noble of you to defend them whenever they are unjustly attacked but it's problematic if you can't see when an accusation is true.

If people would really care about Alina's well-being, they would stop making such a big thing out of this.

Yes, Daniil made a mistake, and the way the other choreographer reacted, especially with a minor being involved, is also a mistake, and certain people just want to set it on fire. Daniil apologized, a message for the other choreographer is on his instagram post with the program announcement, so I suppose he is trying to do his best now.

And I agree with the mention above, about bias, because only a certain group of posters keeps writing, and writing, and complaining about this situation. It's not pleasant, for anyone involved, a mistake was commited, and I really hope Alina won't read those comments, but please, stop making it even worse.

The choreographer never involved Alina in her critique and since she's obviously not part of the FS fandom she couldn't have known what a stir it would cause. It's not like Alina's being attacked since days, in fact it's been a few hours since Jojo learned about it so we'll be back to normal soon.

[...]

Bad joke coming: for those that complain that they don't like Daniil's choreo for Alina and that she should get choreo from someone else, you should be satisfied with this EX :agree:

Good one actually.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bxmq-6LoMJb/?igshid=c6gcshga5uk8 Daniil has edited his post to apologise.

I'm impressed, contacting her personally first and then releasing a public apology is the best thing he could do in this situation. If they were able to solve the issue this quickly maybe we can also move on soon.

 

[icybear]

Honestly I dont understand why this Jojo person needs to stir such a big public outcry over it. Contact Daniil in private, ask for him to post a public apology and have him remove her choreo or give her the credit. If he refuses, then maybe call him out in public. All of this could have been done in a professional manner without making such a big tantrum over it. However it seems she's not satifised. Cause she's now harassing Alina on her instagram asking her to DM her. I honestly dont know what she could possibly need from Alina. Maybe cause she sees her instagram has lots of sponsor and is hungry for some of her cash for compensation. Also not surprising that the people most aggressive about this are those who think Daniil stole the music as well.

 

[[email protected]]

Ethical aspect: nothing wrong about copying something free to copy.
Example: people copy ballet choreo into FS all time. Noone freaks out about that.

I never heard of Jojo Gomez. May be that's why I think all this fuzz is just her PR because Alina as an Olympic champion is much more famous. As for copying the choreo, do they compete? Can Alina's performance in figure skating gala to any extent have a negative effect on Jojo's earnings? Or may be vice versa now that there is fuzz Jojo will have positive income effect? As for ethical issues and knowhow - I saw some eating the clothes and some jerking arm movements. Is that it? Or was it the full dance copied? If the latter, yes, Daniil should have contacted the author: "I saw your dance, I liked it, would not you mind if we perform it on ice?" If the former, come on, people. Do you expect that whenever someone performs Makarena shoulder movements and elbow rotation she has to reach out to those mexican guys for permission?

 

[Tolstoj]

Honestly I dont understand why this Jojo person needs to stir such a big public outcry over it. Contact Daniil in private, ask for him to post a public apology and have him remove her choreo or give her the credit. If he refuses, then maybe call him out in public. All of this could have been done without making such a big tantrum over it. Also not surprising that the people most aggressive about this are those who think Daniil stole the music as well.

Honestly i've seen this already many times among content creators, her response is common, the easiest way to make this serious is to let people know because if you contact in private then you always fear the people who stole the work will try to downplay everything.

Daniil apologized, i wouldn't expect any response from Jojo and i can understand her if she doesn't accept it, just move on and change Alina's EX.

 

[Fluture]

Daniil made more than 200 choreos already, for boys, girls, men, ladies, pairs. He definitely is not "uncreative". In fact those are such conclusions that make me defending him

No one says he‘s uncreative. They were saying it makes him look like as if he was. That‘s a pretty big difference.

It‘s just a rule among artists of any kind that you don‘t steal creative ideas. Leaving out the legal aspects completely, it‘s just something you don‘t do, it‘s bad taste. If someone copies your entire novel and only changes a few words in it and then proceeds to sell it, what do you think of that? It‘s just not a good look and makes him seem as if he had no ideas of his own. Which he does, he‘s choreographed a lot of great, unique programs before. So, there was absolutely no reason at all to copy almost the entire choreography and as experienced as Daniil is, he should have known.

A lot of people that get in touch with figure skating only through this and have never heard of Alina/Daniil before and who do not know that he usually is creative.... What will they think of him? Exactly, that he has no ideas of his own and has to resort to stealing. That‘s just not a good look and I hope this issue gets solved soon because being accused of stealing someone else‘s work is pretty bad for your reputation. (especially if everyone can see that it‘s 100% a correct accusation)

Also, I wish Daniil had made the choreo himself. Because then I might have actually liked it. He usually does pretty great exhibitions, I have liked most of them in the past. This also kinda explains why the entire choreo looked awkward and as if it didn‘t entirely fit on ice.

 

[flanker]

It's noble of you to defend them whenever they are unjustly attacked but it's problematic if you can't see when an accusation is true.

For me there is nothing to accuse (as I've said, nothing between black and white). For me it is just another inflated drama.

 

[madison]

Honestly i've seen this already many times among content creators, her response is common, the easiest way to make this serious is to let people know because if you contact in private then you always fear the people who stole the work will try to downplay everything.

Daniil apologized, i wouldn't expect any response from Jojo and i can understand her if she doesn't accept it, just move on and change Alina's EX.

Daniil invited Jojo in Russia (on his own costs)

 

[Tolstoj]

Daniil invited Jojo in Russia (on his own costs)

Yeah and maybe she'll accept it and they'll work with her, it would be cool.

 

[sx98423]

I never heard of Jojo Gomez. May be that's why I think all this fuzz is just her PR because Alina as an Olympic champion is much more famous. As for copying the choreo, do they compete? Can Alina's performance in figure skating gala to any extent have a negative effect on Jojo's earnings? Or may be vice versa now that there is fuzz Jojo will have positive income effect? As for ethical issues and knowhow - I saw some eating the clothes and some jerking arm movements. Is that it? Or was it the full dance copied? If the latter, yes, Daniil should have contacted the author: "I saw your dance, I liked it, would not you mind if we perform it on ice?" If the former, come on, people. Do you expect that whenever someone performs Makarena shoulder movements and elbow rotation she has to reach out to those mexican guys for permission?

jojo has over 1mil on instagram while alina has 600k. i know alina seems super famous (and she is) but i think you might be underestimating how big some choreographers are. although i'd imagine most of jojo's fans are from north america not japan/russia

 

[Vandevska]

On another note, happy birthday to the girl breaking all barriers! May all the quads be with you Sasha

 

[Lunalovesskating]

jojo has over 1mil on instagram while alina has 600k. i know alina seems super famous (and she is) but i think you might be underestimating how big some choreographers are. although i'd imagine most of jojo's fans are from north america not japan/russia

Jojo also has a big youtube channel with over 1 mio Subscribers and videos with up to 78 Mio views. I don't think she needs the attention like people claim, she already got a big following

 

[madison]

Jojo also has a big youtube channel with over 1 mio Subscribers and videos with up to 78 Mio views. I don't think she needs the attention, she already got enough of it

Well, publicity is never enough
Maybe she wants to conquer new markets, Russia for ex, or new fields: figure skating.
Edit
I found that choreo (for Bad Guy) terrible both the original and the copy
It is my personal taste, of course.

 

[thatbeatingheart]

Honestly I dont understand why this Jojo person needs to stir such a big public outcry over it. Contact Daniil in private, ask for him to post a public apology and have him remove her choreo or give her the credit. If he refuses, then maybe call him out in public. All of this could have been done in a professional manner without making such a big tantrum over it. However it seems she's not satifised. Cause she's now harassing Alina on her instagram asking her to DM her. I honestly dont know what she could possibly need from Alina. Maybe cause she sees her instagram has lots of sponsor and is hungry for some of her cash for compensation. Also not surprising that the people most aggressive about this are those who think Daniil stole the music as well.

Apparently it wasn't the first time her choreography got stolen but probably the biggest case so she just had enough of it at this point. Bad luck for Daniil that it hit him but it is what it is.
Regarding the DM thing, I've seen one comment by Jojo under Alina's most recent post asking her to check her DM's. No one knows what she wrote to her but you automatically assume it's something evil? She knows she can't expect any cash since the choreo isn't copyrighted. Also some people here aren't aware that she's more popular than Alina so I doubt she needs this kind of PR.

 

[flanker]

No one says he‘s uncreative. They were saying it makes him look like as if he was. That‘s a pretty big difference.

That was just the same thing with using more words. I don't say to anyone "you look like.." when I would not think "you are..." What people "that get in touch with figure skating only through this" (which means people who are ignorant about the whole thing and making conclusions without knowledge) is perfectly irrelevant, they don't watch it. But about reputation, people are clear no matter what happened or what will happen.

You can't be accusesd of stealing when there was nothing to steal. That is pretty certain law definiton and you are not using it in correct way.

But "stealing creative ideas". I've made a comment abvout it and also did moriel. I can just repeat that in fact this is nothing uncommon in this activity to take over certain ideas, it's just that most of the time nobody takes it as something uncommon, well, unless you are part of certain team.

Also, there si literally anythin that would require to be "solved soon", unless some pointless taking this back and back again would harm someone's preparation for the new season. That's whjy I think Danill posted an apology, "wiser stands back" (therefore I can't reach wisdom in my life, I'm unable to step back since my childhood ).

 

[madison]

Apparently it wasn't the first time her choreography got stolen but probably the biggest case so she just had enough of it at this point. Bad luck for Daniil that it hit him but it is what it is.
Regarding the DM thing, I've seen one comment by Jojo under Alina's most recent post asking her to check her DM's. No one knows what she wrote to her but you automatically assume it's something evil? She knows she can't expect any cash since the choreo isn't copyrighted. Also some people here aren't aware that she's more popular than Alina so I doubt she needs this kind of PR.

i dont get it why she wants to reach the skater when she already talked with the choreographer.
and as i said, publicity is never enough.