- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating
- Thread starter Spirals for Miles
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2014
She was the first who landed 4F. It's history. It can be one time. What is to be the champion of FGP compared to this? FGP happens every year
There are many types of history. Aliona is the 5th skater to win back to back JGPF and GPF (after Mao Asada, Yuna Kim, Evgenia Medvedeva, Alina Zagitova - a list of greats). We can celebrate all of these ladies' accomplishments and record-breaking achievements without dismissing any others.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
Who said I was "dismissing any others"? If you can't think otherwise than within the framework of "who's whose favorite" I tell you - Alyona Kostornaya my favorite in this trio (more precisely - she has title "the first among equals"
)I spoke about Sasha Trusova's logic, about her system of values. She seeks be the first in history (on truly the first, and not as Americans often like to write - "first in history", "first American in history", "first since first in history", "first after the first American in history", "standing right behind to the first after the first among those who last year took second place", etc
)At least it's big consolation for her, I'm sure.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
I hope it gets close. I would have Anna's PE/IN at the highest. I think the TR are about the same because they both have transitions into all their jumps, including the 3As and 4Lzs. But Alena's skating skills (at least the crossovers, she does lost a lot of speed in her turns) are much better than Anna. I think they have different strengths in PCS; Anna in interpretation and Alena in skating skills with everything else quite similar.
I was actually very impressed with Sasha in this competition. I never love her programs like I do Anna's and Alena's (FS), but she's definitely improving and not just on the jumps. Her 4Lz here was the best I've ever seen her do it; it looked so much higher than before. And of course the 4F. She held the cantilever for so much longer, and I found all her movements to be fully extended and much bigger than they were before. All the choreography she did, if you pause the video, was extended from her fingers to her toes. Her spins were also a huge surprise, what an improvement! If you would've told me 2 seasons ago that she could spin like this in 2 years, I never would've believed you! She has my least favourite programs of the Russian ladies, but I have so much admiration for her athletic spirit; she goes for everything and risks it all, takes the losses like no one else does, and has improved so much in an area where she definitely is not naturally gifted in (spins). She's an athlete that everyone can look up to. I always liked her personality but this was the competition that made me realize all these things.
On the other hand, poor Anna always ends up landing the quads eventually but she's never the first to do them. She landed the 4T first in practice but then broke her leg and missed the season, then she fell on the 4Lz the first few comps, and now she misses the 4F. All the while Sasha gets them all first :dumb:. But I suppose being the second lady to ever land a certain quad isn't bad
.
- Joined
- Dec 9, 2017
I wish they would do the jump height measurements on all the jumps. Sasha's 4F was 56cm high, and it doesn't even look as high as her 4T. Surely her 4T is the highest jump to have ever been performed by a lady? I'd love to know the stats for her 4T and Kamila's. And what a shame we never got that measurement for Tsurskaya's 4Lz. And while we're at it Midori's 3A
On the other hand, poor Anna always ends up landing the quads eventually but she's never the first to do them. She landed the 4T first in practice but then broke her leg and missed the season, then she fell on the 4Lz the first few comps, and now she misses the 4F. All the while Sasha gets them all first :dumb:. But I suppose being the second lady to ever land a certain quad isn't bad
Anna was first in some events wasn't she? First to land a quad at senior RusNats, first to land a quad Lutz at seniors (Lombardia), and she is the first and only that has landed two 4Lzs. I think there's more...?
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I wish they would do the jump height measurements on all the jumps. Sasha's 4F was 56cm high, and it doesn't even look as high as her 4T. Surely her 4T is the highest jump to have ever been performed by a lady? I'd love to know the stats for her 4T and Kamila's. And what a shame we never got that measurement for Tsurskaya's 4Lz. And while we're at it Midori's 3A
Midori's 3A was huge. I'd be surprised if anyone got as much height on a jump. Slutskaya was also capable of some big jumps; in her peak around 2000, I remember her doing a 3F in the Worlds SP that was one of the biggest ones I've seen.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Kihira hasn't been that much of a threat this GP season. If she is still nursing some ankle injury, trying to hammer down those triksels and quads won't improve her physical condition.
If we assume all of Tutberidze's Terrific Trio being free from injury, for them, consolidating their jump content will be easier and less painful/stressful. They all are younger, stronger, fresher in body and mind compared to Kihira, who by possible TES is their only real challenger, trying to protect your injured ankle will hurt you in PCS as much like it will hurt you physically?
Will #TeamTutberidzeForProgress quit their experiments with jump layouts and find the optimum mixture of ingredients, the winning formula? I think they will
E
eterialskater
Guest
Sasha should have won freeskate in all honesty. That's despite her errors. PCS should be a bit higher and definitely more GOE's on her jumps. I find this better performed than her Skate Canada WR LP.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
It's really about time that the ISU allows quads in ladies SPs. It's such an arbitrary and arguably sexist rule to prohibit this.
Aliona was fantastic, but she unquestionably benefits from being allowed to perform her best jump in the SP while her primary competitors, Anya and Sasha, cannot. To me, this makes the podium rankings feel a bit artificial and unrepresentative.
Aliona was fantastic, but she unquestionably benefits from being allowed to perform her best jump in the SP while her primary competitors, Anya and Sasha, cannot. To me, this makes the podium rankings feel a bit artificial and unrepresentative.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2018
Don't crucify me please but I honestly doubt it that Sasha would've gotten a 69 in pcs(or if she even should) 65 imo is Sashas place atm and even then I think it is still generous. But in correlation with the others I thought it was fine.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
I agree with you in the first part, but do not agree in the second. "Artificial"? Seriously? It is not fair to judge an athlete by one system (one that does not yet exist or is only in your imagination at the moment), while another system officially operates. As part of which athletes are preparing for competitions.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Well, all 3 girls knew the rule about no quads and allowed 3A in the short, it's not that ISU made this a thing a year or two ago. They all had equal chances to train the 3A if they wanted to have a chance to lead after short program and that's exactly what Sasha (and probably Anna) is doing now.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
I assume you at least agree that Aliona benefits substantially from being allowed to perform her best jump in the SP while Anya and Sasha cannot? I mean, I think that part is pretty tough to argue.
As for how that makes you feel about the results, that's really a personal thing that's going to vary from person to person.
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2018
I'm talking about a simple thing: when Alyona made a strategic decision about what exactly she should study - quad or trixel, she did it while being in the framework of the current system.
Gosh, this is a typical trick in rejecting the results - to declare "but with a different rating system, we would have won." Dooo. Under a different system, there would be another strategy for achieving victory. You can’t change the rules during the game. Is that such a complicated thought?
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
Right, I don't disagree with that. I guess what I'm saying is that the current rules are marred by unfair constraints, constraints that are all the more glaring because they only apply to one gender. These constraints result in standings that, to me, aren't truly representative of who the best skaters are. In other words, if one skater is allowed to put forth their best elements while another is not, that is unfair and leads to results that carry a bit less meaning.
Again, I want to emphasize that this is just how I personally walk away from these competitions feeling. Luckily, I think it's only a matter of time before the ISU remedies these rules, but in the meantime, I worry about how many deserved gold medals Anya and Sasha will miss out on. (And if either of them somehow misses out on qualifying for Euros or Worlds because of this? All the more tragic.) And we all know that the peak of a skater's career can be brief.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2014
And Sasha and Anna perform their best jumps in the free. No one is stopping anyone to learn anything. Alyona can learn quads to keep up with TES in the free. The others can learn 3A to keep up in the short. It's fair game. Also, the rules are set way before these girls came into the scene.
ETA: I think quads will be eventually allowed because the sport is evolving into a more technical side.
Personally, I think the current set up is okay because the SP is where the skating skills and non-jump elements really shine. The FS has become a jumping on ice competition to be honest.
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2018
Right, but in a world where the rule system has fewer arbitrary constraints, it becomes less about "strategizing" and more about who the best skaters are, period.
Yes, it's conceivable that in this scenario, Aliona would have had incentive to learn quads. Maybe, in that case, the podium standings wouldn't be any different. That's fine. The important thing in this scenario is that the results, whatever they are, would feel more truly representative of who the best skaters are.
