2019-20 U.S. Ladies Figure Skating

[KatGrace1925]

I hate to say this, but I think her chances of medaling are slim. But good for her for keeping at it.

Time will tell, so far she has progressed very well. She may well make it, it is figure skating where the landscape can shift quite wuickly many things could happen.

 

[frida80]

I just don’t know about this...... Starr must’ve impressed at the JW camp. But can her 3toe-3toe and omitted lutz and lack of a consistent flip get her in the top 10?

I can’t say until we get the entry list. Last year 10th place was 159 points. I’d say she will probably get 63-65 in the SP and 108-115 in the FS. That between 171 and 180 overall. Lindsay’s score will drop from nationals, to something more like 165-170, because she’s doomed to be in one of the first groups and underscored. They both had a good shot at the top ten providing that certain ladies decide not to go to JW as opposed to worlds.

 

[TontoK]

All that's true. But does it address the issue of what's the most fair selection procedure? Should the USFSA give extra points for having difficult training conditions or for having responsibilities (like college) outside of skating?

If I were on the selection committee and faced no other choice except, who is most likely to win a medal at Worlds, I would certainly go with Vincent. But I was also impressed with TontoK's observation on another thread that the matter should be settled by the athletes on the field of play, not in the smoke-filed back rooms of officials and on-lookers.

Oh well. Back to the ladies.

Mathman! I've made a revolutionary out of you!

To the barricades, my friend!

"Red, the blood of angry men..."

 

[TontoK]

Well, the problem is that you could end up with a World Team made up of people with one great fluke performance.

And if that happened, it wouldn't be the end of the world. Somebody's favorite would have to wait to next year. Life is full of disappointments. Now, we disappoint some of those who stood up to the pressure of the Nationals challenge and delivered.

I'm very much in favor of a trials process rather than a committee decision.

Now, MAYBE I would make an exception for a medical bye if the skater had an exceptional record that merited special consideration. But it would have to be an EXCEPTIONAL competition record.

 

[Moxiejan]

^^
It wouldn’t be just a disappointment about one favorite. It also could result in the loss of one or two spots, setting in motion a chain of favorites with diminished chances for Worlds or Olympics.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Well, the problem is that you could end up with a World Team made up of people with one great fluke performance.

I don’t know...in my opinion the sport sort of lacks great stories like that. Downtrodden and easily overlooked skaters showing up to the national championship and earning a once and a lifetime opportunity is a great story that I think might even create news and interest and give us something fun to experience. Who knows...maybe a star could be born that reaches heights that they may have never reached otherwise.

I shouldn’t say the sport doesn’t have skaters coming out of nowhere to seize an opportunity but I think the judges and fans often go into events with certain expectations and ideas of how things should turn out and I kinda like the idea of a little less certainty at least being possible and more importantly rewarded.

I don’t think a skater having a perceived fluky great performance is a fair thing to say either. Hey...they did it once. Who’s to really say they can’t and won’t do it again.

 

[TontoK]

^^
It wouldn’t be just a disappointment about one favorite. It also could result in the loss of one or two spots, setting in motion a chain of favorites with diminished chances for Worlds or Olympics.

True.

It could also signal the meteoric rise of a new champion, one who toiled for years and, at the perfect moment, brought everything together in moment of triumph.

Think about the most memorable sports stories you know. How many are about "unknown rises to the challenge and stuns the sports world" Those are the best ones, because they show that talent, hard work, and persistence can make dreams come true.

I think athletes in general would prefer that selections be made on the field of battle.

Tai Babilonia, has an opinion, for example, on the pairs silver medalists: "A shame this team is not going to Worlds. They are special." In another tweet, she uses the hashtag #WhatARipOff

ETA: Since we're really on the ladies thread (and apologies for my contribution to the derailment) Randy Gardner's comment on the ladies event is noteworthy: "If the US Champ is underage for Worlds, it should be a shared title with th 2nd place finisher, if eligible, so have a US Champion competing there. If we don't have a US Champ that can go, the get one. Pretty simple."

 

[ice coverage]

Congratulations to Alysa.

ETA:

Extra credit to Alysa for not getting rattled by skating immediately after Mariah received (understandably) a huge response from the crowd and a big score.
"Nothing to lose" did not apply to Alysa this year, who was defending her title.​

And to Mariah, Bradie, and Karen. Plus Amber :luv17:, who is headed to Four Continents (and who was a great choice for the Nats gala).

Also to Lindsay Thorngren and the other junior medalists.

Very pleased that Audrey Shin was invited to Junior Worlds selection camp, and that she was selected as first alternate.

Good luck to next week's competitors :yay:: Elsa Cheng and Ellen Slavicek at Bavarian Open, and the Four Continents team.

---

... I think athletes in general would prefer that selections be made on the field of battle. ...

I myself would have loved for Ross Miner to go to the Olympics.

But certainly Adam Rippon preferred for selections to be made based on the fields (plural) of war (i.e., multiple battles) -- as opposed to the field of one battle, which is what you are talking about.
And I would bet that quite a few athlete-friends of Adam agreed with his preference.
Ditto re Ashley in 2014.

I just don't think it is so easy to make a generalization as to what skaters would prefer.
The USFS Athletes Advisory Committee (which includes a number of current skaters as well as very recently retired skaters) signed off on the body-of-work selection procedures.

 

[Moxiejan]

^^
For the 2018 Olympic team, I would have included BOTH Ross & Adam, with Vincent sent to Worlds instead of Ross.
Even worse was the horrible way Ross was even passed over in the alternate spots.

 

[hippomoomin]

Congratulations to Alysa.



I myself would have loved for Ross Miner to go to the Olympics.

But certainly Adam Rippon preferred for selections to be made based on the fields (plural) of war (i.e., multiple battles) -- as opposed to the field of one battle, which is what you are talking about.
And I would bet that quite a few athlete-friends of Adam agreed with his preference.
Ditto re Ashley in 2014.

I just don't think it is so easy to make a generalization as to what skaters would prefer.
The USFS Athletes Advisory Committee (which includes a number of current skaters as well as very recently retired skaters) signed off on the body-of-work selection procedures.

Very good point. If we look at historically how the World/Olympics team is selected, no one should be surprised that Vincent is chosen.

 

[brightphoton]

An idea to reduce the workload of the selection committee: instead of going through all the mental effort of pre-calculating "body of work" for World/Olympics teams, they can go to the Golden Skate pre-competition prediction threads and average all the votes.

 

[Mathman]

Now, MAYBE I would make an exception for a medical bye if the skater had an exceptional record that merited special consideration. But it would have to be an EXCEPTIONAL competition record.

The language used to be -- maybe it still is -- that a DOMINANT skater who misses nationals because of injury can petition for consideration. Dominant was usually taken to mean, like, Michelle Kwan dominant.

The USFSA was almost put to the test in 2009. Evan Lysacek was the number one man. But he was on-again, off-again with including a quad in his program. At Nationals he tried the quad, fell, and dropped in the standings. It was touch and go whether he would even get third (Ryan Bradley beat him in the LP and almost snatched the bronze overall).

There was a sigh of relief that Lysacek did manage third and went to Worlds legitimately without the need for any funny business. Lysacek won Worlds and went on to win the Olympics the next year. There was a lot of what-if-ing about whether the USFSA would have bent its traditional rules and sent Lysacek anyway. One problem with the "nationals is everything" procedure is that in cases like this the judges might be tempted to inflate the favorite's score at Nationals just to make sure he makes the team.

Another factor that was announced about that time was that, for the Olympic team at least, the USFSA could not use Nationals as the sole Olympic qualifying event because, according to the Olympic Charter, in that case they would lose legal jurisdiction over Nationals to the USOC. (I don't know if this was really a danger, but the concern was expressed at the time.)

By the way, that same year in ice dance the defending U.S. Champions Belbin and Agosto withdrew from Nationals because of injury but were placed on the Worlds team anyway under the "dominant skaters" rule. They won the silver at Worlds, just ahead of Davis and White, the 2009 U.S. champions in the absence of Belbin and Agosto.

 

[Mathman]

It wouldn’t be just a disappointment about one favorite. It also could result in the loss of one or two spots, setting in motion a chain of favorites with diminished chances for Worlds or Olympics.

To me, that is the crux of the whole thing.

What is more important, getting the maximum number of medals and spots at Worlds/Olympics, or running a competition in which every athlete is treated fairly and equally.

 

[mametaro100]

Hi Guys, I just found some of the videos from the US national 2020. Here is the link.

https://www.rockerskating.com/news/2020/1/24/2020-us-nationals-play-by-playresults-ladies-free-skate

You can also find other videos from the other disciplines, hope its useful !

 

[evasorange]

Two things-1. I’ve been seeing a lot of social media posts from USA skating and Olympic channel about Mariah’s free skate. It’s a shame she won’t be at four continents to keep on building momentum. Korea fed still owes her a public apology imo but I know that will never happen.
2. Reading these new interviews with Adam, his quotes about how Mariah wasn’t training that hard and her whole workout was just like a warmup for him REALLY makes me wonder what all raf does with her. Seems like she just needed someone to really pay attention and invest in her to thrive.

 

[KatGrace1925]

Two things-1. I’ve been seeing a lot of social media posts from USA skating and Olympic channel about Mariah’s free skate. It’s a shame she won’t be at four continents to keep on building momentum. Korea fed still owes her a public apology imo but I know that will never happen.
2. Reading these new interviews with Adam, his quotes about how Mariah wasn’t training that hard and her whole workout was just like a warmup for him REALLY makes me wonder what all raf does with her. Seems like she just needed someone to really pay attention and invest in her to thrive.

I feel like Raf is the kind of coach who is really good for driven skaters who will go out of their way to make their own training schedule and to push themselves. He seems to be the kind of coach who guides not a super hands on day to day sort of guy.

 

[theharleyquinn]

Two things-1. I’ve been seeing a lot of social media posts from USA skating and Olympic channel about Mariah’s free skate. It’s a shame she won’t be at four continents to keep on building momentum. Korea fed still owes her a public apology imo but I know that will never happen.
2. Reading these new interviews with Adam, his quotes about how Mariah wasn’t training that hard and her whole workout was just like a warmup for him REALLY makes me wonder what all raf does with her. Seems like she just needed someone to really pay attention and invest in her to thrive.

Those interviews confirmed a lot for me. Raf prides himself on teaching his students to train, and then as they get older, they only need him for tweaks and corrects while they largely focus on training themselves. For several seasons, I questioned whether it was the right place for Mariah since she did seem like someone who needed a more hands on coach that could provide discipline to her training. It would make sense that having Adam and Ashley retire forced her to take a more active role in her own development since she's now one of the older people training with Raf, and he probably doesn't have that much time for her.

 

[MarkinBerkeley]

I don’t know...in my opinion the sport sort of lacks great stories like that. Downtrodden and easily overlooked skaters showing up to the national championship and earning a once and a lifetime opportunity is a great story that I think might even create news and interest and give us something fun to experience. Who knows...maybe a star could be born that reaches heights that they may have never reached otherwise.

I shouldn’t say the sport doesn’t have skaters coming out of nowhere to seize an opportunity but I think the judges and fans often go into events with certain expectations and ideas of how things should turn out and I kinda like the idea of a little less certainty at least being possible and more importantly rewarded.

I don’t think a skater having a perceived fluky great performance is a fair thing to say either. Hey...they did it once. Who’s to really say they can’t and won’t do it again.

I think I only saw Sasha Cohen have one totally clean free skate in her entire career. That was indeed a fluke for her. No surprise when she bombed at the Olympics and only salvaged a silver medal because the other skaters weren't very good either. And she landed 5 jumping passes after the awful start.

 

[Greengemmonster]

What's the US's attitude towards silver or bronze?

Say if one of your ladies nabbed silver or bronze in 2022 do they stand to make good sponsorship money from it?

Or does it need to be gold to glitter?

 

[KatGrace1925]

What's the US's attitude towards silver or bronze?

Say if one of your ladies nabbed silver or bronze in 2022 do they stand to make good sponsorship money from it?

Or does it need to be gold to glitter?

Gracie Gold became a mini star of the team bronze medal, so I think having any medal would be a big deal. Especially since we've had no american's podium in so long.