2019 Europeans Pairs Free Skate

[CherylDee]

I can't shake the feel of certain indifference and moving through the motions about Evgenia and Vladimir this season. When they hit elements, they are amazing and we appreciate that, but overall I sense no connection whatsoever with the moment, music, each other. It all feels a bit forced and disconnected. They put up an effort, but it just doesn’t seem effortless in the final effect - I wonder why pair so talented, skilled looks lost and confused at places. I really wish they figure out an aesthetic, a signature program to hear the music and think 'Oh yes, this is them, an amazing pair', 'Oh this is their music/THAT program'. I just feel they are somewhere in between this season, in the shadow of French, but also in their own shadow I think - it is not that silver is bad, that their performances were bad; it is more about that indifferent state that is concerning, having tools, but not making the most of them.

I think you are so right NNF. Your post is excellent and I share your observations.:yes:

Hope I'm not too late for this pity-party. But honestly, what I feel is happening with Venya & Vlad is fans for the most part have sort of typecast T/M as classical skaters, when it seems they want desperately to be sleek, modern and fresh and dare I say....viral! Classical skating no matter how you pair it will not crossover into the mainstream the way Vanessa & Morgan's sensual programs have done. T/M are not stupid, they know this and have been trying to find the right programs to be competitive in the sensation created by J/C.

But fans are like...."No, that's unacceptable. You are classical skaters and so shall you remain". This is what I sense is happening and as a result T/M seem to have kind of shut down and appear to be despondent and just going through the motions without heart or feelings. It's rather apparent in Vengya who clearly seemed to enjoy performing their FS last year and the James Brown short program this year, despite our objections. But she seemed to be having fun at least. The tears that flowed following the Olympics podium miss is quite evident in exacerbating this year's lack of projection, expression and joy in their performances with the return to classical programs.

So am I blaming fans for this condition? Well, yes...and no. I mean ultimately it's their career and their choice to skate to their heart's desire. And yes, I believe with the right programs they too can become the superstars in skating if that's what they want.

:confused2: But heck, I'm no mind-reader and I could be totally misreading the signs and symptoms of dissatisfaction and disappointment in achieving one's desires. Only they know their ills and maybe one day they will spill the tea.

 

[Skater Boy]

I watched the top 4:

B/K—I was rewatching Mishkutenok and Dmitriev’s 1992 Oly FS last night, and Moskvina really is the gold standard for uniting classic Russian synchronization with innovative pair tricks. I can’t wait to see what she does with Boikova and Kozlovskii. Sasha just radiates joy in the lifts, and that first throw jump was the smoothest of the event. I honestly think they could be World medalists by next season. But where was my dramatic Kozlovskii reaction?

D-M/G—The bronze was right there for them, but they just made too many mistakes. I’m not sure why I find them so boring. It could be the programs, but I can’t think of anything I would want them to skate to, and their short and free are completely different styles. Maybe they just lack chemistry?

J/C—I can’t believe Vanessa still has the sparkle thong pants, and might win a World title in them. That actually is a crucial key to their success, I think—their self-confidence and self-assurance as World Champion contenders. What they lack in SS and big pair elements they make up for by presenting themselves as the favorites in every competition they enter, and that program is the perfect vehicle for them to do so. And let’s give credit where credit is due: the transitions and lifts are terrific, and she got so low on that death spiral! I love S/H, but I have to agree that J/C are the ones to beat right now, purely based on momentum and packaging.

T/M—This was better than people are giving them credit for. I agree there is no emoting (it was especially apparent here.....they and their team seemed tense and angry?), but their pair elements really are spectacular, and I thought the first minute in particular was magical. Hopefully as they get more comfortable with Trankov they can find the right program to show their strengths and make a statement, like J/C’s.

I honestly think J/C are the favorites to win WGM. GOod for them they are wonderful and spunky and a bit different. I am kind of sad for T/M - I hope they can find their mojo and regain or gain the Russian polish and dominance. If not, they could be like Kavaguti and Smirnov never winning an WGM or olympic individual medal which is kind of sad. I know there is a vocal French pairs lovers but T and M I really hope will get a world title too. I hope they can gain confidence and get programs that promote what they do well. Rally whoever prepared them and has guided them has not done a great job in promoting what they do best and develop their weaknesses into strengths. As impressed I am with the French here I am wondering is this a bit of a tu rning point for T and M to regain their mojo and then some? I hope so. I would like to see a three horse battle at worlds. Now with the French win and pairs it sets them up to be the dominant team in skating or at least Euros. This could become easier if Javier wins gold in men's.

 

[draqq]

Solid win for James/Cipres! They were a bit tight on the jump landings and they still need to figure out how to end the program without getting that -1 deduction, but this program has been spectacular and they are in good stead moving into Worlds.

I actually don't think Tarasova/Morozov is that far behind. The mistake on the 3T from Tarasova (in both the short and long) could be cleaned up; if so, they are right on track to even beat J/C on the technical side with their higher quality death spiral and twist lift. As far as the judges are considered, J/C and T/M are neck-and-neck, though J/C still has the advantage artistically with their connection with each other and the timing the choreography has with the music.

 

[LadyB]

I shall score Pairs later tonight. The Predictions thread is closed at the mo, so results will be either there or in a new thread in the Europeans forum.

Cheers.

 

[NoNameFace]

Solid win for James/Cipres! They were a bit tight on the jump landings and they still need to figure out how to end the program without getting that -1 deduction, but this program has been spectacular and they are in good stead moving into Worlds.

I actually don't think Tarasova/Morozov is that far behind. The mistake on the 3T from Tarasova (in both the short and long) could be cleaned up; if so, they are right on track to even beat J/C on the technical side with their higher quality death spiral and twist lift. As far as the judges are considered, J/C and T/M are neck-and-neck, though J/C still has the advantage artistically with their connection with each other and the timing the choreography has with the music.

I don't think that they are behind in terms of execution either, every mistake considered about jumps/lifts or whatever other technical element should be not that hard for them to clean up and practice for the better. The thing is for me rather - looking at both teams head-to-head, one after another (James/Cipres and Tarasova/Morozov), there is a difference is basic skating skills and let's say 'refinement in carriage' in terms of style in favour of Russians, BUT it is no (longer) a determinant of a better quality of performance and overall presentation of a team.

James/Cipres improved leaps and bounds over past few seasons in terms of technique (what T/M have in spades and is their best ad), EMBRACING at the same time an individual aesthetic/style, mindset over their presentation and packaging, really making their specific mark in pretty hermetic and organized Paris' world I'd say. Meanwhile, looking from the other side, I totally see Tarasova/Morozov's fantastic technical capability, huge throws, coverage, lines, it did not go anywhere, BUT there's a sense of stagnation and indifference as I wrote yesterday in terms of their presentation as a whole: including music, expression, interpretation; I do not see any progress (or regress) in that matter to be honest - I definitely sensed (maybe it's just me) a feel of non-enthusiasm, non-excitement over their performances, lack of spark and fierceness I saw in 2017 when they fought for everything at Helsinki Worlds, even with FS that was not that universally liked. There was a sense of engagement therefore, a feel of embracing their current best into performances which I honestly don't see now.

As for packaging bit...This is for me another factor that makes James/Cipres to stand out, not even win or being 'the best' - it is commendable for me to see team becoming successful, more skilled technically still pushing their own aesthetic vision/agenda forward in competitive programs. It takes guts, but also thoughtfulness, finding that 'fit' for themselves to sell. Watching them skating to these pop songs with lyrics, laced with sensuality, physical allure added to it, it really adds to the perspective: non-standard music approach, non-standard performance approach, non-standard Pairs' style taken, yet it works. Why? I think some people now just look for more complex performance/presentation altogether, incorporating music, lyrical side of it, choreo design, expression, creativity & nuance aside of all technicality that defined Pairs' discipline for a long time. Pretty/beautiful and clean is good, often enough, but no longer ALWAYS; it is more often about that additional 'it' factor added to the whole pair package that makes everything pop twice brighter and making that difference at the end of the day.
A general thought I have, looking at this situation, is that Pairs' discipline moved tremendously forward in past 6-8 years, definitely exiting 'comfort zone' made out of this classic appearance and pristine technique, this 'decorum'-like presentation a bit - and teams like James/Cipres, willing to improve technically and with more individuality in presence/expression/style, carried it to more creative and diverse place I feel. Pairs started to be 'cool', people started to seek & appreciate non-standard/classical approach towards choreography, music, expression and judges - slowly (still), but surely - started to reward something different than beautiful, classical Pair program. I really like tbh that there's a place for 'Wicked Games', Enzio Bosso, 'The Nutcracker' and Rachmaninoff in Pairs' skating, that there's a possibility to see a dance-like quality there, to see creativity in choreo design not only highlighting elements, but personality of pair, their musicality/expression aside of just unison. And this is not saying (God forbid!) that pairs like Evgenia/Vladimir are doing something wrong or outdated - actually, basic technique, carriage and lines they have won't ever get out of 'fashion' for me, because when you have that, it is the strongest asset and a thing which is the hardest to perfect I think; it is more about this alone not being enough to shine and be the best. It's more of finding the right way to nurture, exhibit these assets/qualities and make more of 'statement', not just a pretty/clean skate. The difficult part is that I'm not sure what's needed - maybe it is indeed about emoting more, being more engaged into performance, music, being together on the ice? Maybe it is about re-thinking the packaging in terms of finding more of themselves in it, like classical with a twist, to project more, making it just more 'rich', believable on deeper level than just nice visual?

 

[anonymoose_au]

I think you are so right NNF. Your post is excellent and I share your observations.:yes:

Hope I'm not too late for this pity-party. But honestly, what I feel is happening with Venya & Vlad is fans for the most part have sort of typecast T/M as classical skaters, when it seems they want desperately to be sleek, modern and fresh and dare I say....viral! Classical skating no matter how you pair it will not crossover into the mainstream the way Vanessa & Morgan's sensual programs have done. T/M are not stupid, they know this and have been trying to find the right programs to be competitive in the sensation created by J/C.

But fans are like...."No, that's unacceptable. You are classical skaters and so shall you remain". This is what I sense is happening and as a result T/M seem to have kind of shut down and appear to be despondent and just going through the motions without heart or feelings. It's rather apparent in Vengya who clearly seemed to enjoy performing their FS last year and the James Brown short program this year, despite our objections. But she seemed to be having fun at least. The tears that flowed following the Olympics podium miss is quite evident in exacerbating this year's lack of projection, expression and joy in their performances with the return to classical programs.

So am I blaming fans for this condition? Well, yes...and no. I mean ultimately it's their career and their choice to skate to their heart's desire. And yes, I believe with the right programs they too can become the superstars in skating if that's what they want.

:confused2: But heck, I'm no mind-reader and I could be totally misreading the signs and symptoms of dissatisfaction and disappointment in achieving one's desires. Only they know their ills and maybe one day they will spill the tea.

Yes so much yes! When people were attacking them last season all I could think was "What if this is the sort of music they like? They're the ones who have to skate it and listen to it every time they practice." And if Zhenya and Vova do like that sort of music and that sort of image being told they can't and shouldn't do it again and again is enough to make anyone lose confidence. The same thing happened with their original SPs this year - which I really loved - it's not fair that they can't express themselves without being torn to pieces over it.

Besides I distinctly recall people pooh-poohing them when they first arrived on the scene going "Ugh another boring, blah-blah Russian classical pair" and going nuts over Ksenia and Feodor for being different. Feels like they can't win

Also Vova has"Resting Serious Face", which doesn't mean he can only like classical music

 

[NoNameFace]

Yes so much yes! When people were attacking them last season all I could think was "What if this is the sort of music they like? They're the ones who have to skate it and listen to it every time they practice." And if Zhenya and Vova do like that sort of music and that sort of image being told they can't and shouldn't do it again and again is enough to make anyone lose confidence. The same thing happened with their original SPs this year - which I really loved - it's not fair that they can't express themselves without being torn to pieces over it.

Besides I distinctly recall people pooh-poohing them when they first arrived on the scene going "Ugh another boring, blah-blah Russian classical pair" and going nuts over Ksenia and Feodor for being different. Feels like they can't win

Also Vova has"Resting Serious Face", which doesn't mean he can only like classical music

It's never going to be like even and harmonious - it's like our vision/perception versus their personal preferences. Usually bound to crash. But I don't think that our assumptions/opinions should ever influence what they want to do with the package/expression - they should always do what they considered the best for them, also in terms of repertoire, we can only wait and see, then making our mind about this.

 

[Nika09]

J/C on their way to win Worlds. There are still many "if"s out there but it seems like that. For now congratulations with first EC Gold Vanessa and Morgan? you pretty much deserved it!!

 

[CherylDee]

Yes so much yes! When people were attacking them last season all I could think was "What if this is the sort of music they like? They're the ones who have to skate it and listen to it every time they practice." And if Zhenya and Vova do like that sort of music and that sort of image being told they can't and shouldn't do it again and again is enough to make anyone lose confidence. The same thing happened with their original SPs this year - which I really loved - it's not fair that they can't express themselves without being torn to pieces over it.

Besides I distinctly recall people pooh-poohing them when they first arrived on the scene going "Ugh another boring, blah-blah Russian classical pair" and going nuts over Ksenia and Feodor for being different. Feels like they can't win

Also Vova has"Resting Serious Face", which doesn't mean he can only like classical music

Couldn't agree more! In fact, I remember your tagline last year "protector of the polka-dot...something another". I thought cool somebody gets it. :cool2:

 

[anonymoose_au]

Couldn't agree more! In fact, I remember your tagline last year "protector of the polka-dot...something another". I thought cool somebody gets it. :cool2:

Oh thank you! It was "President of the Polka-Dot Protection Society", I was quite proud of it.

 

[TT_Fin]

I was good at predictions this year. My first 5 have exactly right also at pairs (and ladies, too). I am sorry to see so few pairs. It is my favourite discipline. I hope some juniors for example in Finland could make pairs. There are now quite delightful amount of junior boys competing.

 

[glorybox6]

I was very struck by the small size of this field. I had to go back to 1989 to find a Europeans pairs field so small. Only 9 pairs competed that year, but most years the number has been around 15, sometimes as many as 20.

I wonder what is happening here. Is it the danger level of the most difficult elements taking pairs out of it due to injury or something else? I hope the ISU is looking at this because the Grand Prix fields were also pretty depleted (though it seems Four Continents pairs fields are trending larger so maybe there’s something particular happening with the European federations).

 

[cell]

Solid win for James/Cipres! They were a bit tight on the jump landings and they still need to figure out how to end the program without getting that -1 deduction, but this program has been spectacular and they are in good stead moving into Worlds.

I actually don't think Tarasova/Morozov is that far behind. The mistake on the 3T from Tarasova (in both the short and long) could be cleaned up; if so, they are right on track to even beat J/C on the technical side with their higher quality death spiral and twist lift. As far as the judges are considered, J/C and T/M are neck-and-neck, though J/C still has the advantage artistically with their connection with each other and the timing the choreography has with the music.

I think James and Cipres have such superior lifts which simply look spectacular.. I don't know...maybe I don't understand the difficulty, but Tarasova and Morozov's ones look standard by comparison