2019 World Juniors Free Dance

[Mrs. P]

Yes, and I don't agree with those arguments. If you don't understand something, that doesn't mean that something is wrong or not correct, that only means that you don't have enough informatitions/knoweldge to understand it.

The issue is that 90 percent of the audience/judges don’t know about the movie or the plot. Nor should they be expected to have to research it.

I’m not against wacky dances. Sofia and Igor also have a quirky FD and they do a far better job at expressing it. I don’t know what that song is about but I still enjoy it.

If your going to go out of the box you have to really work to interpret the music and story. That’s why not a lot of teams do it. I commend them for trying but execution still matters at the end of the day.

 

[Ichatdelune]

Um I don't mean to interfere but WA and BV you two are doing the age-old argument of 'is an adaptation to be evaluated in affiliation with the source material' and that argument is never going to have a conclusion

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Yes, and I don't agree with those arguments. If you don't understand something, that doesn't mean that something is wrong or not correct, that only means that you don't have enough informatitions/knoweldge to understand it.

I understand U/N's FD as a character piece, even without the specific story background. That doesn't mean it's a podium-worthy dance either in concept or execution. Whenever a team presents me with over-the-top drama, I am immediately suspicious that they are layering it on thick to disguise technical weakness...which I then especially go looking for. I wouldn't be surprised if some tech panels/judges do the same.

But let's face it, what cooked U/N's goose in this competition was their RD score and blowing the pattern. That left them with a gap that in this field, was not bridgeable without someone above them making mistakes in the FD. Which didn't happen.

 

[SnowWhite]

JW and JGP spots for next season:

JW
- 3 spots: Canada, Russia USA
- 2 spots: Georgia, France

JGP
- 14 spots: Canada, Russia, USA
- 7 spots: Georgia, France, Ukraine
- 6 spots: Italy, Czechia, Belarus, Estonia
- 5 spots: Germany, UK, Lithuania, Armenia
- 4 spots: Spain, Hungary, China, Israel
- 3 spots: Japan, Taipei, Poland, Australia, Greece, Austria
- 2 spots: all others

 

[Skater Boy]

N/K for junior world champs 2020!

fI think they are the faves now. Great job. The Greens must be disappointed and the Russians will have to do something to be competitive. The final group were all wonderful; real quality. I am impressed the Canadians did it when it counted after being so close to bronze at the GP final. Really so much good news - US ID is looking very strong, Russia is solid and LaLa will provide some interesting challengeto the Danadians.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

The issue is that 90 percent of the audience/judges don’t know about the movie or the plot. Nor should they be expected to have to research it.

I’m not against wacky dances. Sofia and Igor also have a quirky FD and they do a far better job at expressing it. I don’t know what that song is about but I still enjoy it.

If your going to go out of the box you have to really work to interpret the music and story. That’s why not a lot of teams do it. I commend them for trying but execution still matters at the end of the day.

I don't think that's an issue. Judges are judging based on skaters execution, not based on their own preferencies about music and skating styles. Thankfully, you can chose whatever music and style you want and still get a good marks, as those two (and some others ) showed in the past. Today, there were better teams, but not because of their better choice of music/style, but because of their better skating performances. That doesn't mean U/N could not win with that type of program (as they already did).

 

[bigsisjiejie]

... LaLa will provide some interesting challengeto the Danadians.

I doubt if this will happen in the L/L's first senior season; F-B/S are a strong senior Top 10/Top 15 team and I think beyond the immediate reach of L/L. But I could see L/L passing Soucisse/Firus if the latter don't get on top of their game and quickly.

 

[WeakAnkles]

I don't think that's an issue. Judges are judging based on skaters execution, not based on their own preferencies about music and skating styles. Thankfully, you can chose whatever music and style you want and still get a good marks, as those two (and some others ) showed in the past. Today, there were better teams, but not because of their better choice of music/style, but because of their better skating performances. That doesn't mean U/N could not win with that type of program (as they already did).

Nobody is arguing about the choice of the music. The issue is the execution. U/N chose to push a hard sell; I'm not buying. Neither, apparently, were the judges. At least not today.

That is all.

Oh, and Mrs P is 117% spot on.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Nobody is arguing about the choice of the music. The issue is the execution. U/N chose to push a hard sell; I'm not buying. Neither, apparently, were the judges. At least not today.

That is all.

Oh, and Mrs P is 117% spot on.

Pushing hard/hard sell/over the top skating has nothing to do with correct execution of skating elements. That was my point.

 

[Mrs. P]

I don't think that's an issue. Judges are judging based on skaters execution, not based on their own preferencies about music and skating styles. Thankfully, you can chose whatever music and style you want and still get a good marks, as those two (and some others ) showed in the past. Today, there were better teams, but not because of their better choice of music/style, but because of their better skating performances. That doesn't mean U/N could not win with that type of program (as they already did).

There’s also something to be said about staying power. You are right that they won with this program. But keep in mind some of these judges have watched this program all season and they are also expecting growth and evolurion as the season goes on and the probelem is that when it comes down to it, they kind of maxed out on the novelty of it during the JGP. I don’t think it’s surprising that other teams started passing them after the fall.

You are correct above that yes the program choice doesn’t influence execution scores but I think it’s not hard to believe that it could have been a factor.

 

[Alegria]

JW and JGP spots for next season:

JW
- 3 spots: Canada, Russia USA
- 2 spots: Georgia, France

JGP
- 14 spots: Canada, Russia, USA
- 7 spots: Georgia, France, Ukraine
- 6 spots: Italy, Czechia, Belarus, Estonia
- 5 spots: Germany, UK, Lithuania, Armenia
- 4 spots: Spain, Hungary, China, Israel
- 3 spots: Japan, Taipei, Poland, Australia, Greece, Austria
- 2 spots: all others

I don't think, that Georgia can use them all.

 

[BillNeal]

I don't think that's an issue. Judges are judging based on skaters execution, not based on their own preferencies about music and skating styles. Thankfully, you can chose whatever music and style you want and still get a good marks, as those two (and some others ) showed in the past. Today, there were better teams, but not because of their better choice of music/style, but because of their better skating performances. That doesn't mean U/N could not win with that type of program (as they already did).

Their execution is (and has been throughout the season) not good and even more so today in comparison to the other top teams. Her posture really needs work and that is not a sign of good skating skills (they have speed though but the flow is lacking). Even a character piece can have light and shade, moments of nuance, and also clean lines, of which were rare in their performance (and also in the RD). I find that they don't skate as one (which is also one of the judged criteria in the GOE of an element, not just personal preference) but rather skate against one other. They have been overrated in the past and judges have put those marks closer to where they deserve at this competition, and this will only make them strive to improve for next year.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Pushing hard/hard sell/over the top skating has nothing to do with correct execution of skating elemets. That was my point.

But the scoring isn't just about specific elements. If that was the case, why bother having programs? Just have the teams go out and perform a step sequence or twizzles. If you really want to be fair that way, have them all do it to the same music.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

There’s also something to be said about staying power. You are right that they won with this program. But keep in mind some of these judges have watched this program all season and they are also expecting growth and evolurion as the season goes on and the probelem is that when it comes down to it, they kind of maxed out on the novelty of it during the JGP. I don’t think it’s surprising that other teams started passing them after the fall.

You are correct above that yes the program choice doesn’t influence execution scores but I think it’s not hard to believe whether they influenced it.

Bingo. That is one of the inherent problems with eccentric programs...if not constructed very carefully, they don't leave much room for program growth throughout the season, and after viewing 2-3 times, lose their impact and just become irritating rather than fresh and fun. Regardless of the execution. I think this is where Gilles/Poirier's non-standard programs are noteworthy. To name just three examples: Hitchcock, She Said/Neverland, all the way through this season's Vincent--were just "different" starting with music choice, but the composition/choreography left room for growth and improvement in the execution, so the programs didn't lose impact as the season progressed; in fact, just the opposite.

 

[StephenGfan]

i mean N/U for world champs 2020!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Bingo. That is one of the inherent problems with eccentric programs...if not constructed very carefully, they don't leave much room for program growth throughout the season, and after viewing 2-3 times, lose their impact and just become irritating rather than fresh and fun. Regardless of the execution. I think this is where Gilles/Poirier's non-standard programs are noteworthy. To name just three examples: Hitchcock, She Said/Neverland, all the way through this season's Vincent--were just "different" starting with music choice, but the composition/choreography left room for growth and improvement in the execution, so the programs didn't lose impact as the season progressed; in fact, just the opposite.

That Hitchcock program is one of my all time favorites And they were not getting the highest marks for it, like they did not for any other type of a program they were skating to before or after that. Because there are teams who can executed skating elements as the other component's requirement better than them. The program and choreography of the program can't change those things. Which was my point exactly.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Well yay me. I got through the entire Junior Season! If nothing else, I think my typing speed went way up!

 

[Baron Vladimir]

But the scoring isn't just about specific elements. If that was the case, why bother having programs? Just have the teams go out and perform a step sequence or twizzles. If you really want to be fair that way, have them all do it to the same music.

And we can see how U/N's skating of a program as a whole is judged in program components. All 8+. I don't see any of low scores there

 

[Skater Boy]

N/K for junior world champs 2020!

fI think they are the faves now. Great job. The Greens must be disappointed and the Russians will have to do something to be competitive. The final group were all wonderful; real quality. I am impressed the Canadians did it when it counted after being so close to bronze at the GP final. Really so much good news - US ID is looking very strong, Russia is solid and LaLa will provide some interesting challengeto the Danadians.

 

[WeakAnkles]

And we can see how U/N's skating of a program as a whole is judged in program components. All 8+. I don't see any of low scores there

5th highest TES; 4th highest PCS. 5th overall.

Yup, I don't see a problem with the judging either.