2021 U.S. Nationals: Senior Men - Short Program

[gsk8]

Hey folks, please don't derail the thread by discussing the Stream/Zhou issue. All related posts have been removed. There are enough links posted to find it. Thanks!

 

[TontoK]

The quad wasn't planned for the sp. I agree with that strategy. Maybe the fp. Or else just go for the performance, make the Worlds team and go for the quad at Worlds. If Jason tries the quad in the fp, he needs to be strategic about it so that he has enough to rack up points if the attempt isn't successful. That comes via placement strategy and jump selection to ensure if the quad doesn't work, he has enough tech and stays on point to get the points he needs to stay on the podium.

This is my frustration. I want Jason to medal, not just at US Nats, but on the biggest stages. I know some people don't care about the jumps or the medals, but I do. I want it for Jason. I think he wants it for himself.

This was one of the most amazing short programs I've ever seen. I don't think he could skate it any better. But it's about 12 points out of first, about 7 points out of second, just at the US Championships. If this exact program were skated at the World Championships, it might not even make the final flight for the free.

This was the perfect opportunity to up the ante. He was last to skate, all the podium threats had already performed and all but the two favorites had faltered badly, and no one was going to threaten his position on the World Team. Top three was, and is, as close to a lock as you can hope for. Had he missed it in the SP, he'd still be in position to finish third.

When exactly IS the right moment to try again? When there is little pressure? When there's a lot of pressure? He says he has it. His coach says he has it. We've seen practice video. It's always going to be a risk, but I think he has to try.

In the past, I've said I've accepted that he may never compete a quad, but I just don't think I can stand it if a skater this sublime never gets on a big time podium.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Jason wants to “clean up” his program. https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1350585390927900673?s=21

Ah, everyone must read this Twitter thread link in order to understand what Jason means. He and Rohene apparently plan to continue perfecting this sp and keep it for next season where Jason dreams of skating it at the Olympics!

I know Alvin Ailey. I mean I know a lot about dance so I'm familiar with Ailey and his company. He's no longer alive, but he lives through the legacy of his contributions to dance and to his company that I believe lives on. The arts have been so very hard hit in this pandemic non-economy these days.

Ailey danced to Sinnerman. That's where Rohene had the idea to transfer Ailey's dance moves to the ice. Genius at work! Plus this transference inspiration tells us how much creation and creativity is not about 'reinventing the wheel.'

So far, this is the only video of the dance choreo I could find. It's not Ailey, but his dancers on SYTYCD in celebration of the company's 50th anniversary. Sinnerman is part of the music from Ailey's epic masterpiece, Revelations:
(54) So You Think You Can Dance Season 03/Episode 15 - Alvin Ailey "Sinner Man" - YouTube

Also, Nina Simone's iconic rendition of Sinnerman is only one version of the song.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

This is my frustration. I want Jason to medal, not just at US Nats, but on the biggest stages. I know some people don't care about the jumps or the medals, but I do. I want it for Jason. I think he wants it for himself.

This was one of the most amazing short programs I've ever seen. I don't think he could skate it any better

Oh, I agree, I agree. I actually thought the judges would go whole hog and place Jason above Zhou. I still have to see Zhou's performance to get a better idea of the competition. I missed Zhou's skate.

This sp is definitely beyond amazing because Jason is doing something that's never really been done before with genius inspiration in collaboration with Rohene Ward (and also in collaboration of a kind with Alvin Ailey and Nina Simone). That's absolutely something very special that's not easy to pull off. Jason and Rohene pull it off like magic. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G and then some! Where's the 'kick you know what' icon?

Like T,T&J mentioned during the commentary, by now Jason would have slayed podiums and copped all kinds of medals with his talent. Just not in this crazy freak day-and-age of quads. But look at what Jason has still accomplished though against all odds. A lot of naysayers dismissed Jason years ago saying he would never master the 3-axel, much less quads. In fact, Jason has mastered 3-axels, and he's landed a number of quads in training practices.

Jason also landed a quad in competition at Skate America 2016 that the blind, clueless judges stole from him, IMHO. I was there in the arena. Before the fp, I had a chance to speak to Jason during a meet-and-greet, and I told him, "You're going to land the quad." And he said, "Yeah, I'm gonna do it." And he high-fived me. And then he landed a quad in the fp but the judges couldn't believe he landed it so easily and they took it away. Jason then had to regroup because when you feel like you landed a quad and you're told you didn't, then doubts creep in, and how your body felt doing it has to be revamped and reworked, along with your confidence.

I personally love how Jason has never allowed himself to compromise his talent for perfecting all the nuances of skating, just to focus solely on quad-mania, and in that questionable process of selling his soul, end up losing himself. He's not done that. He's held himself to the highest standards of integrity and hard work, always. Kudos to Tracy Wilson for understanding Jason's talent and integrity and for convincing Orser that taking Jason under their wing was an important no-brainer. The Cricket Club sojourn has helped Jason tremendously.

You are so right that Jason is hungry for the international podium. He wants to earn medals. That's what champions do. That's what champions expect of themselves.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Vincent's skate was really good! He had a huge quad Lutz combo at the start and his entry into the 3A was wow!

And I thought he emoted the program really beautifully too.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Nope, that was my first time seeing it. The first and only time I saw Brown this year was at the virtual Peggy Fleming trophy and he definitely didn’t skate to Nina Simone!

Right, he didn't skate to it there. He skated to a different program entirely, and it was also fabulous.

 

[TontoK]

Vincent's skate was really good! He had a huge quad Lutz combo at the start and his entry into the 3A was wow!

And I thought he emoted the program really beautifully too.

Vincent is not the same skater he was when he first burst onto the scene.

Sadly, I don't think a some people appreciate that.

 

[Ophelia]

Jason Brown is an absolute artist. His SP is a masterclass in skating artistry. That costume is perfect too.

He really deserves a Worlds or Olympics medal for his skating being pure art.

 

[el henry]

Vincent is not the same skater he was when he first burst onto the scene.

Sadly, I don't think a some people appreciate that.

Vincent has improved his performance skills immeasurably. Nathan has also improved his performance as well from his first senior year.

I think the frustration for "some people" (well,me) may be, should his PCS have been that close to Jason's? Even improved? I would argue no, but that is not to undercut what Vincent has done (plus Vincent's SP music is god-awful. God-awful I can't help it, that influences me)

And to go to your earlier point, my friend, although I am not one who measures the worth of a skater by medals, for Jason's sake I do want to see him get a quad. So that we all can stop talking about it, if nothing else But I am glad you liked his skate.

 

[lariko]

Vincent's skate was really good! He had a huge quad Lutz combo at the start and his entry into the 3A was wow!

And I thought he emoted the program really beautifully too.

It was absolutely magical, and the song was so beautiful. That lutz of his is one of a kind!

 

[Dogo]

Vincent has improved his performance skills immeasurably. Nathan has also improved his performance as well from his first senior year.

I think the frustration for "some people" (well,me) may be, should his PCS have been that close to Jason's? Even improved? I would argue no, but that is not to undercut what Vincent has done (plus Vincent's SP music is god-awful. God-awful I can't help it, that influences me)

And to go to your earlier point, my friend, although I am not one who measures the worth of a skater by medals, for Jason's sake I do want to see him get a quad. So that we all can stop talking about it, if nothing else But I am glad you liked his skate.

Yup, and I understand that. Also, yeah the music choice sometimes pushes us to like it or hate it more. Josh Groban is not everyone's cup of tea, but my dog started howling when she saw Vincent dancing with the lyrics and that moment sold me his music choice

My dog approves lol

 

[karne]

This was the perfect opportunity to up the ante. He was last to skate, all the podium threats had already performed and all but the two favorites had faltered badly, and no one was going to threaten his position on the World Team. Top three was, and is, as close to a lock as you can hope for. Had he missed it in the SP, he'd still be in position to finish third.

When exactly IS the right moment to try again? When there is little pressure? When there's a lot of pressure? He says he has it. His coach says he has it. We've seen practice video. It's always going to be a risk, but I think he has to try.

He will really never win with you, will he? The minute he lands it you'll start whining he's not doing it in combo.

Jason tried the quad in last year's US Nationals FS. It was downgrade, but on one foot and stood up. Less than two weeks later he popped his attempt to a double at 4CC. He fully planned to do it at Worlds and honestly judging by his momentum I fully believe he'd have landed it there.

He has already said he will attempt the quad in the FS here. Because when you can rack up 100 points for your SP, why wouldn't you? Why would you give away points on a risk? There is enough talent in this field that if Jason did go for the quad in the short and other skaters skated perfectly, he actually could be fourth or fifth. Yes, by the time he skated, there was lowered risk. But do you really want him to make a last-minute change to a program that is choreographed to the nth detail? What a stupid move that would have been!

His strategy is brilliant. Make a flying start off the blocks with a perfect SP and rack up a 100 point score. Make people talk about you, remind the judges they need to be hitting 10s on their PCS screen. Then go in for the quad in the FS with your confidence sky-high.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

From YouTube channel of NBC Sports:

Vincent Zhou 2021 Nats SP: https://youtu.be/2uH0r5joYAQ

Nathan Chen 2021 Nats SP:https://youtu.be/tV6SbXGxHYY

I can't find a replay of Jason Brown's exquisite performance on NBC's YT channel. Zhou was on point, and that's admirable, but Zhou's lovely performance can't touch the absolute beauty, superb movement quality and polished details of Jason's evocative and inspiring performance.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Vincent has improved his performance skills immeasurably. Nathan has also improved his performance as well from his first senior year.

I think the frustration for "some people" (well,me) may be, should his PCS have been that close to Jason's? Even improved? I would argue no, but that is not to undercut what Vincent has done (plus Vincent's SP music is god-awful. God-awful I can't help it, that influences me)

And to go to your earlier point, my friend, although I am not one who measures the worth of a skater by medals, for Jason's sake I do want to see him get a quad. So that we all can stop talking about it, if nothing else But I am glad you liked his skate.

Yes, I agree in that I think the song is nothing special that Vincent skated to. It's traditional old-hat by now. With Zhou skating early in the draw, his high score is rather interesting. He deserved excellent marks, but not 7 points above what Jason did. The PCS should not be as high for a performance that while accomplished offers nothing new or original creatively.

Jason's Sinnerman OTOH is a program that takes risks worth taking with sublime results. Lots of athletes can skate to Groban. Few can skate to Nina Simone with Rohene's choreo!

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

What is the PCS limit? That's what Jason should have received. Highest, highest PCS. No kidding!

But Nathan don't shirk in PCS department, no matter what his critics think.

It’s 50. And no he shouldn’t have received that. There were some minor balance checks and areas for improvement in the program.

I have yet to see a debut of a program that actually deserves perfect PCS - but this is the closest one I’ve seen.

 

[rollerblade]

For the folks who don't read fan threads:



There are also other men's SP uploaded on that yt account. Grab them while it's hot!

 

[Jaana]

I enjoyed the effortless looking skating and jumping of Zhou most plus the program of course. Chen was second to me..., but also enjoyable performance. After Brown finished his program I had the impression that there was plenty of hasty looking forward stroking in his program and somehow his triple-triple combination felt a bit more like a double-triple..., but that´s just me, LOL.

 

[leoncorazon]

What an embarrassment of riches. Thanks for the great skates guys!

 

[ElSoteroLoco]

I wish Ilia Malinin was able to compete.

I wondered the same thing. Does anyone know why? It’s not like he can’t compete.... he could have easily been in 4th place right now!

 

[Myr]

I wondered the same thing. Does anyone know why? It’s not like he can’t compete.... he could have easily been in 4th place right now!

I think I've read somewhere (not sure where though) that he was injured during the season and therefore not able to participate in the preliminary competitions required to take part in Nationals...?