2022-23 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[Jumping_Bean]

You make an interesting point about the Visas and about whether the ISU might penalize an event for not accepting a skater from a foreign country. I would.

The ISU can't do anything if there are visa issues. Many countries have generally made it much harder for Russians to get visas, and the skating federations have no influence on that at all.

Now, for GP events, federations can invite anyone they want, as long as they follow the official rules, and as there are fairly few Russian skaters who are still guaranteed GP spots, that's not going to be too big of an issue either (China, Japan and Finland have issued visas to Russian sportspeople this season, so they are likely to do so next season too, and that's enough to cover the Russian skaters).

Anastasia as you know lives and trains in Russia still but represents Georgia and she was able to travel okay to various countries this season. If she can do it others should be able to do it as well

It's not the actual travel that's the biggest issue (People travelling from Russia just have to detour over Istanbul, and can travel to the rest of the World from there), it's the visas. Nastya (like Morisi and all of the other Georgian skaters of Russian origin) has Georgian citizenship and travels with her Georgian passport, so she's unlikely to run into travel obtaining visas for most countries.

That's not the case for many other skaters. Just look at Georgii Reshtenko. He represents the Czech Republic and trains both there and in the USA, but he doesn't have a Czech passport and was only able to compete at Europeans (Finland) and Worlds (Japan).

 

[surimi]

It's not the actual travel that's the biggest issue (People travelling from Russia just have to detour over Istanbul, and can travel to the rest of the World from there), it's the visas.
[...] Just look at Georgii Reshtenko. He represents the Czech Republic and trains both there and in the USA, but he doesn't have a Czech passport and was only able to compete at Europeans (Finland) and Worlds (Japan).

It wasn't the visa for Reshtenko, he WD from his early events this season due to injury that took longer to heal. But visa issues were certainly a recurring problem for others, like Shaidorov.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

It wasn't the visa for Reshtenko, he WD from his early events this season due to injury that took longer to heal. But visa issues were certainly a recurring problem for others, like Shaidorov.

He competed in mid-December (with quads), but didn't compete at any other competition (for example Challenge Cup) apart from Euros and Worlds, so I'm not sure if it was just the injury hindering him.

Doesn't Shaidorov have a Kazakhi passport? He's been on the national team for a long time and Kazakhstan doesn't (didn't?) financially support anyone who isn't a Kazakhi citizen (plus he's born in Kazakhstan).

But other Russian-born skaters without other citizenships, like Daria Danilova, had issues too.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Doesn't Shaidorov have a Kazakhi passport? He's been on the national team for a long time and Kazakhstan doesn't (didn't?) financially support anyone who isn't a Kazakhi citizen (plus he's born in Kazakhstan).

Off-topic

The problem for skaters like Shaidorov and Litvintsev is not their passport or their nationality, but the fact that they used to get their visas in the country where they actually live and train, i.e. in Russia. And now they have been refused, or consulates simply do not work. And getting a visa somewhere else is difficult and expensive (And while Misha could at least get a visa in Kazakhstan, there was no Finnish embassy in Azerbaijan).

 

[AlexBreeze]

He competed in mid-December (with quads), but didn't compete at any other competition (for example Challenge Cup) apart from Euros and Worlds, so I'm not sure if it was just the injury hindering him.

Also off-topic

Sport-Express has posted an interview with him today. He only mentioned the severe injury.

 

[brakes]

It's generally tough to break through in Russia, but in some cases "tough" is an understatement:



Last video is Yulia Lavrenchuk 'training' her daughter in Plushenko's academy few years ago.
She'd been coaching Anastasia Zinina with her husband, Aleksey Vasilevsky.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

It's generally tough to break through in Russia, but in some cases "tough" is an understatement:



Last video is Yulia Lavrenchuk 'training' her daughter in Plushenko's academy few years ago.
She'd been coaching Anastasia Zinina with her husband, Aleksey Vasilevsky.

What's really bad about this is that Plushenko said that once he fired her, other people came forth about her treatment of them/their children, so Yulia Lavrenchuk seems to have a well-established negative pattern of behaviour towards her students.

With her husband's kind of uncomfortable closeness to some of the younger girls he coaches (like Lyuba Rubtsova), and their seemingly nonchalant viewpoint on injuries (Lyuba had some bad falls at the end of last season in a competition where she hit her head, but there was little concern for her safety from the side of her coaches; their lackluster reaction to Nastya's injury; how quickly both Lyuba and Nastya returned to training after injuries; Nastya training on ice but not being cleared by a doctor for competition; Plushenko's allegations that Nastya went to Lavrenchuk and Vasilevsky because they allowed her to train jumps despite not being medically cleared; ...), it's not looking all that good for them, is it?

 

[alexocfp]

Teamtutberidzee

telesco.pe

The life isn’t all glamor and champagne.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Valieva continues ultra-c attempts in the Team Tutberidze tour.

 

[JimR]

It's generally tough to break through in Russia, but in some cases "tough" is an understatement:



Last video is Yulia Lavrenchuk 'training' her daughter in Plushenko's academy few years ago.
She'd been coaching Anastasia Zinina with her husband, Aleksey Vasilevsky.

It is good this is being revealed. Horrible.

 

[JimR]

Valieva continues ultra-c attempts in the Team Tutberidze tour.

She is unbelievable. I have no doubt she will restore the Salchow next season but it will take a lot of work of course. The quad toe I haven't seen her fall on since November, and now the 3A is restored in a program in front of an audience. She has jumped it in training since November though, but stability has been a problem. This looks solved for the most part.

Given how difficult an extra 500 grams has made it for some Eteri skaters to jump, she's probably added 5kg minimum since the Olympics due to natural growth, so it is extraordinary what she has done this season to restore these jumps. This is a super athlete, once in a generation type. Maybe the best pure female athlete in the world right now.

 

[AlexBreeze]

She is unbelievable. I have no doubt she will restore the Salchow next season but it will take a lot of work of course. The quad toe I haven't seen her fall on since November, and now the 3A is restored in a program in front of an audience. She has jumped it in training since November though.

Given how difficult an extra 500 grams has made it for some Eteri skaters to jump, she's probably added 5kg minimum since the Olympics due to natural growth, so it is extraordinary what she has done this season to restore these jumps. This is a super athlete, once in a generation type. Maybe the best pure female athlete in the world right now.

Her 4T technique isn't based on low weight. It reminds me of Tuktamysheva's 3A, she won't lose it.

 

[JimR]

Her 4T technique isn't based on low weight. It reminds me of Tuktamysheva's 3A, she won't lose it.

The quad toe is the greatest jump of all time. It defies gravity. The legs must be so powerful.

Kamila is, of the top skaters, one of the largest in the world and surely going to benefit the most from the ISU's age rule it's kind of fortunate how it will work out for her. This is the zrelozhensky style that the ISU wanted but it comes with a 3A, 4T, and probably a 4S given how Kamila doesn't quit until she has achieved her goal.

 

[icybear]

Her 4T technique isn't based on low weight. It reminds me of Tuktamysheva's 3A, she won't lose it.

I mean she's 16 nearly 17. She will probably have it for 1 year more before all the injuries from Eteri coaching catches up and she retires at an old age of 18.

 

[alexocfp]

It's generally tough to break through in Russia, but in some cases "tough" is an understatement:



Last video is Yulia Lavrenchuk 'training' her daughter in Plushenko's academy few years ago.
She'd been coaching Anastasia Zinina with her husband, Aleksey Vasilevsky.

This type of training will lead to the kids giving up rather than continuing to improve.

Parents should also stop trying to live their dreams through their kids. This is where a lot of the problems start.

If you start hitting or throwing your students around you shouldn’t be allowed to coach them. At that age fundamentals and a strong work ethic need to be taught.

There is definitely a time for tough love and maybe even some voice raising but that should come much later. Even then, there is no need for physical assault.

 

[Skatelife]

I mean she's 16 nearly 17. She will probably have it for 1 year more before all the injuries from Eteri coaching catches up and she retires at an old age of 18.

As usual, the well wishes....

 

[Scott512]

The ISU can't do anything if there are visa issues. Many countries have generally made it much harder for Russians to get visas, and the skating federations have no influence on that at all.

Now, for GP events, federations can invite anyone they want, as long as they follow the official rules, and as there are fairly few Russian skaters who are still guaranteed GP spots, that's not going to be too big of an issue either (China, Japan and Finland have issued visas to Russian sportspeople this season, so they are likely to do so next season too, and that's enough to cover the Russian skaters).


It's not the actual travel that's the biggest issue (People travelling from Russia just have to detour over Istanbul, and can travel to the rest of the World from there), it's the visas. Nastya (like Morisi and all of the other Georgian skaters of Russian origin) has Georgian citizenship and travels with her Georgian passport, so she's unlikely to run into travel obtaining visas for most countries.

That's not the case for many other skaters. Just look at Georgii Reshtenko. He represents the Czech Republic and trains both there and in the USA, but he doesn't have a Czech passport and was only able to compete at Europeans (Finland) and Worlds (Japan).

1st things 1st people keep talking about the Visa issues. I am sure there are issues but why were Nastyas Ruusian citizen coaches at Europeans in Finland and then worlds and then all 3 Russian citizen coaches from TT were at worlds in Japan? They are not as vital as Russian skaters for obvious reasons. nobody tunes in to watch coaches. If Russian skaters continue to be banned then Russian coaches need to be banned as well. It was ridiculous seeing them at these major competitions but not the athletes.

Nobody wants to see coaches instead of the greatest Wonder Woman in the history of ladies figure skating sasha at these events. either they all go or nobody goes. I don't want to see the same nonsense next season since they all have the same Russian passport.

And if the Visa issues keep Russian skaters from traveling to certain countries in Europe then you work around that or you start your own fed and move along. You can't ban Russia and Belarus and then stop them from doing their own Europeans or own worlds. They should have done that this season. Tell they should do it this summer before the next season starts if they are continued to be banned. Do a Europeans in Saint Petersburg or Moscow and do a world in Beijing at the Olympic stadium they skated at. Is I'm sure China would allow it.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

1st things 1st people keep talking about the Visa issues. I am sure there are issues but why were Nastyas Ruusian citizen coaches at Europeans in Finland and then worlds and then all 3 Russian citizen coaches from TT were at worlds in Japan? They are not as vital as Russian skaters for obvious reasons. nobody tunes in to watch coaches. If Russian skaters continue to be banned then Russian coaches need to be banned as well. It was ridiculous seeing them at these major competitions but not the athletes.

Nobody wants to see coaches instead of the greatest Wonder Woman in the history of ladies figure skating sasha at these events. either they all go or nobody goes. I don't want to see the same nonsense next season since they all have the same Russian passport.

And if the Visa issues keep Russian skaters from traveling to certain countries in Europe then you work around that or you start your own fed and move along. You can't ban Russia and Belarus and then stop them from doing their own Europeans or own worlds. They should have done that this season. Tell they should do it this summer before the next season starts if they are continued to be banned. Do a Europeans in Saint Petersburg or Moscow and do a world in Beijing at the Olympic stadium they skated at. Is I'm sure China would allow it.

I literally mentioned that Finland, China and Japan are issuing visas to Russians, but other countries that are hosting major competitions are not. The GPs are held in the USA, Canada, France, Japan, China and Finland (i.e. three GPs will be easily accessible for Russians, the other three will not - But that's enough with the very small amount of Russian skaters still entitled to GP spots), the GPF in China (i.e. no issues here either). The Challengers are in ITA, CAN, GER, SVK, FIN, HUN, KAZ, AUT, POL and CRO. Europeans are in Hungary, Junior Worlds in Taiwan and Worlds in Canada.

Also, Russian coaches do not officially represent any country and are always registered at competitions for each individual skater, which is why they can't be banned, but Russian skaters, judges and other officials can be. Now, coaches that at the very least coach in state-funded schools in Russia are not independent agents in my eyes, which is already demonstrated by the fact that some former Russian skaters who switched countries talked about how their coaches were no longer allowed to train them because they no longer represented Russia, but on paper they are only representing themselves.

Once again, I reiterate that the visa issue and the ban are completely independent issues. To the ISU, your passport doesn't matter. It only matters whether or not you are officially representing Russia as an entity (Remember the introductions when skaters take to the ice? Along the lines of "From Russia, XYZ"? Or "Representing Russia, XYZ"?) For countries issuing visas, however, your passport does matter. There's a reason none of the Georgians have run into visa issues, but the pairs from the Netherlands have. That reason is the ability, or lack thereof, to use a second, non-Russian passport.

Also, what's the use in doing a "Europeans" or "Worlds" if it's in name only? Other countries won't send skaters (or at least not their top skaters) because they would be stupid to risk their Olympic eligibility. Sure, they could try to sue to reinstate eligibility, but legal proceedings are not fast and there would be no guarantee they would win. There's another reason why other competitor organisations to the main governing body in many other sports never really took off, even when athletes were allowed to compete in other competitions without repercussions, and that is that athletes can only qualify for the Olympics through the main governing body.
While I've seen people repeatedly say that the Olympics "aren't that important anymore" and "many athletes wouldn't care if they couldn't compete at the Olympics", I disagree. The Olympics haven't lost really any of their status in sports like figure skating, with a long Olympic history which has a great influence on the organisation, and training of figure skating to this very day. It is not for nothing that a whole host of skaters retire after the Olympics, or return from retirement to have one last shot at making the Olympics.

 

[JimR]

This type of training will lead to the kids giving up rather than continuing to improve.

Parents should also stop trying to live their dreams through their kids. This is where a lot of the problems start.

If you start hitting or throwing your students around you shouldn’t be allowed to coach them. At that age fundamentals and a strong work ethic need to be taught.

There is definitely a time for tough love and maybe even some voice raising but that should come much later. Even then, there is no need for physical assault.

It's pathetic, but unfortunately these kind of parents are everywhere all around the world in all sports trying to live their dreams through their children.

In figure skating too you need to be top 5 in the country to even be relevant because there are limited spots, so if the child doesn't have a manic desire to train and succeed (the parent or coach should be telling the child to not train so hard not the other way around) then why push the child. It's not like a team sport you might be able to make a good living being on the team playing a particular role. It's all or nothing in figure skating.

 

[JimR]

I mean she's 16 nearly 17. She will probably have it for 1 year more before all the injuries from Eteri coaching catches up and she retires at an old age of 18.

If say Shcherbakova or Trusova were Belgian, there wouldn't be the opportunities for a professional career so less incentive to give up a competitive career for shows, qualification for international spots would be a forgone conclusion so you just have to keep form to skate internationally, it would be easy to continue their careers even coming off injury like Shcherbakova.

But in Russia, the competition is so intense, unless you can maintain your top form you have no competitive career where you are in contention for big medals like Russian Nationals, Russian GP final.

Nicole Schott can probably skate until she is 35 in Germany and appear at the world championships.

Eteri skaters aren't more injured at 18 as other skaters are, it's just there is less opportunity to make the national team or compete at important events, so they are phased out of the sport.