Ethics and "young" skaters at ISU events

[Magill]

Skate America 2020. I believe that even with COVID restricted invitations, that was still technically an international event, but maybe I am wrong?

I don't think GPs 2020 counted as international as they were basically domestic events or did not take place at all. But maybe I am wrong?

 

[el henry]

I don't think GPs 2020 counted as international as they were basically domestic events or did not take place at all. But maybe I am wrong?

OK, I admit, I don't know

 

[Magill]

OK, I admit, I don't know

As it seems widely open for interpretation I do not think anyone would protest if Ilia was treated as a newcomer which he factually - even if not technically - was. But even without him there were other deserving candidates of less controversial age.

 

[Magill]

Not scandalous, simply contradictory in messaging that ISU is trying to send. I mean, juniors are not eligible for this award (from ISU). For some reason a ‘newcomer’ to the sport I has to be a newcomer to seniors only, which is weird because most of them competed internationally in juniors. And, according to ISU’s own policy, will now be competing in juniors even longer. But, according to ISU years in juniors don’t matter. Okay.

The second thing ISU is saying is that it is ethical and good to make the ‘main’ venue, the vaunted seniors, to start at 17, to award longevity and perseverance, and ensure women competing are post-puberty.

But lo and behold! They pick the youngest possible woman to award as the bestest newcomer into seniors. Messaging: the bestest newcomers are the youngest, and the new age cut-off is not in alignment with how women skaters develop, physically and artistically.

ISU is not the most consistent, logical and unbiased organization, so maybe it’s not surprising. But, tbh, I would prefer they stayed the course. 17–awesome, 16–tragic.

Do not start me, please, on the messages ISU sends, lol

 

[lariko]

I don't think GPs 2020 counted as international as they were basically domestic events or did not take place at all. But maybe I am wrong?

It didn’t count as international.

 

[Amei]

I don't think GPs 2020 counted as international as they were basically domestic events or did not take place at all. But maybe I am wrong?

I think its because he competed at Challenge Cup, Cup or Austria and Worlds last season (though worlds was in 2022 so technically it might not count as a DQ for best newcomer).

 

[JimR]

Poor Levito!

She didn't practice before the short program because of illness/injury, but her coaches and the US fed forced the 15 year old out on the ice for the short program only to withdraw completely from the tournament because of illness/injury.

This is the kind of situation the new age rules were brought in to avoid. I can't believe they sent her out on the ice for the short program while ill/injured. She is a 15 year old child who does that? Who knows what kind of damage this has done to her physical and emotional state going out there to skate while ill/injured.

I cannot believe what I'm witnessing. The ISU handing out a senior award to a 15 year old, a 15 year old being forced out onto the ice while ill/injured. She wasn't well enough to practice, she should have been withdrawn from the event. The new rules were brought in specifically to address this kind of imbalance in the sport and here we have adults exploiting a child for the sake of a medal.

 

[Magill]

I think its because he competed at Challenge Cup, Cup or Austria and Worlds last season (though worlds was in 2022 so technically it might not count as a DQ for best newcomer).

Worlds were perfectly within the time limit as per ISU reference to the 2022 as the calendar year and not to any seasons. As for Challengers etc as long as they were within the 2021-2022 season they'd be alright, I guess, as I do not think there is a requirement for newcomers to actually have their very first international outing at a GP, Europeans, 4CC, Worlds or Olympics. I mean, they usually start their season with some other "lower ranking" competition (not just newcomers, many skaters do) and move on to bigger events as the season progresses
I do not think that would be a problem if there was a will to do that.

 

[DancingCactus]

Who really knows what the ISU's reasoning for choosing Isaveau was. It's not as if the winners in the other categories necessarily made more sense.

 

[lariko]

I also wish the commentator stops emphasizing the youth of the skaters in the senior competition. ‘She’s only fifteen/sixteen’ just spills from his tongue endlessly. Endlessly.

 

[icewhite]

I also wish the commentator stops emphasizing the youth of the skaters in the senior competition. ‘She’s only fifteen/sixteen’ just spills from his tongue endlessly. Endlessly.

Agree
But then there's that one commentator who always says that, even when skaters are 23. "Just 23years of age!" Well, yeah, for me that's a young person, too, but for a figure skater that's not that young...

 

[icewhite]

Who really knows what the ISU's reasoning for choosing Isaveau was. It's not as if the winners in the other categories necessarily made more sense.

True, the whole event is ridiculous. Witt was the logical consequence because they "needed" a woman to win it and didn't want a Soviet one, well, in a certain age group it then becomes difficult. Harding is hardly the role model even though I'd argue that she including that film have done a lot to attract new people to the sport...
I probably wouldn't have picked any of the other winners, and the few seconds I tuned in during the show were so cringe I had to turn ot off. So I think the question whether the new rule is accomponied by other measures and understanding of the problem in general is valid, but we probably shouldn't cling to this award all the time.

 

[skatesofgold]

Poor Levito!

She didn't practice before the short program because of illness/injury, but her coaches and the US fed forced the 15 year old out on the ice for the short program only to withdraw completely from the tournament because of illness/injury.

This is the kind of situation the new age rules were brought in to avoid. I can't believe they sent her out on the ice for the short program while ill/injured. She is a 15 year old child who does that? Who knows what kind of damage this has done to her physical and emotional state going out there to skate while ill/injured.

I cannot believe what I'm witnessing. The ISU handing out a senior award to a 15 year old, a 15 year old being forced out onto the ice while ill/injured. She wasn't well enough to practice, she should have been withdrawn from the event. The new rules were brought in specifically to address this kind of imbalance in the sport and here we have adults exploiting a child for the sake of a medal.

This happens in all sports at all levels. God knows how many gymnastics competitions I chose to compete in when I had a cold in high school because I still attended school. The only reason why I would hope it happens less now is because of the pandemic and how it brought to light that you should stay home when you're sick whether you're a child or an adult because other people can get sick from you. It could be an exploitation thing, but it might not be. I think many people have trouble admitting they're too sick to go about business as usual.

 

[lariko]

Agree
But then there's that one commentator who always says that, even when skaters are 23. "Just 23years of age!" Well, yeah, for me that's a young person, too, but for a figure skater that's not that young...

it’s just particularly grating when he blindly does it with the women that will be considered underage after the grace period is over. If we defined this new line between tragedy/exploitation and women’s achievement we gotta stick to it and the sooner the better.

 

[beachmouse]

Poor Levito!

She didn't practice before the short program because of illness/injury, but her coaches and the US fed forced the 15 year old out on the ice for the short program only to withdraw completely from the tournament because of illness/injury.

This is the kind of situation the new age rules were brought in to avoid. I can't believe they sent her out on the ice for the short program while ill/injured. She is a 15 year old child who does that? Who knows what kind of damage this has done to her physical and emotional state going out there to skate while ill/injured.

Older skaters are not immune to pressure from their federation to get out on the ice despite recent injury or illness. I’m remembering the French trying to rush Kevin Aymoz back into the 21/22 GP season despite him clearly not being recovered from injury and kind of cringing at the short program from hell.

 

[el henry]

Poor Levito!

She didn't practice before the short program because of illness/injury, but her coaches and the US fed forced the 15 year old out on the ice for the short program only to withdraw completely from the tournament because of illness/injury.

This is the kind of situation the new age rules were brought in to avoid. I can't believe they sent her out on the ice for the short program while ill/injured. She is a 15 year old child who does that? Who knows what kind of damage this has done to her physical and emotional state going out there to skate while ill/injured.

I cannot believe what I'm witnessing. The ISU handing out a senior award to a 15 year old, a 15 year old being forced out onto the ice while ill/injured. She wasn't well enough to practice, she should have been withdrawn from the event. The new rules were brought in specifically to address this kind of imbalance in the sport and here we have adults exploiting a child for the sake of a medal.

The new age rules had Jack Squat to do with a cold or flu, which also affected Bradie and Amber.

Indeed, since you can't believe what you are witnessing, it appears you support the argument that 15 year olds should never have been participating in senior events all along.

So I'm glad we agree on that.

 

[Amei]

Older skaters are not immune to pressure from their federation to get out on the ice despite recent injury or illness. I’m remembering the French trying to rush Kevin Aymoz back into the 21/22 GP season despite him clearly not being recovered from injury and kind of cringing at the short program from hell.

Yaroslav Paniot was injured prior to the 2018 NHK Trophy when he was still representing Ukraine, the Fed made a deal with him if he went to the GP then he could skip nationals to heal and he would be sent to Europeans/Worlds, after he held up his end they backed out of the deal and told him he had to skate at Nationals -- he stopped representing Ukraine at that point and transferred to the US.

 

[TT_Fin]

The member who wrote people who are not involved in skating do not care about ISU awards it right. To be honest, I myself didn't know anything about it without this forum and even now when I know, to be honest I still couldn't care less and I could bet there are lot of us who are not interested. But if I want to read this thread I read about that thing too. But don't read any threads which are mainly about it.

I don't like either about emphasizing the young age. It happens in all sport. FS is popular only in few countries. For example in Finland those who come to see competitions are more than 50 % somehow involved in skating themselves - skaters, former skater, their family member and friedns, while in athletes, hockey, soccer etc most people in audience are just fans. I have talked with people who are there and most of those people I have talked to belong to these groups. One thing skating is not popular is just the thing that many people think it to be "little girls doing circus tricks". Somebody said me exaclty this. Those people don't care if they jumps quads, they don't think it is as sport. Finnish media wrote hardly nothing about GP series in Finland. But scandals, then the media is interested in skating. And scandals+young people, not good for their life. Scandals are remembered much longer that who won in olympics. I bet outsidde those few countries where skating is popular, you cannot find many who can mention any olympic winners or if they can, they may mention Sonia Henie or Katarina Witt. I don't know if raising the age gives more interest to sport, but i for sure it does not damage FS's reputation.

 

[moonvine]

Poor Levito!

She didn't practice before the short program because of illness/injury, but her coaches and the US fed forced the 15 year old out on the ice for the short program only to withdraw completely from the tournament because of illness/injury.

This is the kind of situation the new age rules were brought in to avoid. I can't believe they sent her out on the ice for the short program while ill/injured. She is a 15 year old child who does that? Who knows what kind of damage this has done to her physical and emotional state going out there to skate while ill/injured.

I cannot believe what I'm witnessing. The ISU handing out a senior award to a 15 year old, a 15 year old being forced out onto the ice while ill/injured. She wasn't well enough to practice, she should have been withdrawn from the event. The new rules were brought in specifically to address this kind of imbalance in the sport and here we have adults exploiting a child for the sake of a medal.

I’m confused. Where do you get the information she was forced? Most child athletes you have to be forced not to.

The person I can remember definitely being forced was Kevin Aymoz and he’s of age. I was so mad at French fed.

 

[Fluture]

It's fair to be concerned, it's fair to call out the ISU. They have a history of not caring about the fate of young athletes. They made Tutberidze coach of the year in 2020 when her abuse was well known to anyone who could read back then. They only raised the age limit when a fifteen year old was doped at the Olympics and they had a huge international scandal on their hands.

They proved they learned nothing when they nominated Mie Hamada for best coach THIS SEASON. Yes, Mie Hamada, the coach involved in an actual lawsuit for abusive behaviour towards her students. I think this says everything.

However, the way this post was written and the way the original poster continues to write their posts feels disingenuous. Isabeau is one part of a system that's been going on for years. If you're concerned about her, then you should have been concerned for every fifteen year old that came before that and agreed unambiguously that fifteen year olds have no place in international competition.

They raised the age limit in parts, which they had reasons for. I'm not sure I agree with them but well, athletes plan their seasons, they plan the competitions they go to, when to peak. Suddenly being back in juniors when you planned for a senior debut is not ideal. That being said, they could have gone straight to 17 for the season after that. But … ISU being ISU. Nothing new.