What time are the other announcements? They said they will announce Sunday evening for pairs, ice dance, and men. I think the interesting thing will be to see who they go with for the second pairs selection for Worlds.
I agree with this. Karen has had years to get a consistent 3-3 and has not. She's not improved at all. Amber clearly is gaining momentum and watching her I felt no doubt she was going to nail the jumps. No hesitation, calm and collected. Lovely programs. I get the selection rationale but it stings after that brilliant performance.This seems like a bogus choice. I agree with others: Karen hasn't improved significantly since last quad. Her international results have been middling since then, and her UR issues may limit her technical score. Amber placed ahead of Karen at Nationals, has been trying to add the 3A, and has generally made great strides. Her improvement/potential should've been rewarded with a Worlds spot, especially the year before Beijing.
The US seems very unlikely to get 3 spots back regardless of who they send. Shcherbakova, 2 of Kostornaia/Trusova/Tuktamysheva, Kihira, and Sakamoto probably all place ahead of Tennell, even if she's perfect. Miyahara may, too.
What time are the other announcements? They said they will announce Sunday evening for pairs, ice dance, and men. I think the interesting thing will be to see who they go with for the second pairs selection for Worlds.
Yeah thanks. I just saw that on the website and I was coming here to see whether another thread had been started.The other assignments have been announced:
https://usfigureskatingfanzone.com/...-and-ice-dance-selections-for-world-team.aspx
MEN
Jason Brown
Nathan Chen
Vincent Zhou*
Alternate 1 – Tomoki Hiwatashi
Alternate 2 – Maxim Naumov*
Alternate 3 – Camden Pulkinen
PAIRS
Jessica Calalang and Brian Johnson
Alexa Knierim and Brandon Frazier*
Alternate 1 – Ashley Cain-Gribble and Timothy LeDuc
Alternate 2 – Audrey Lu and Misha Mitrofanov
Alternate 3 – Emily Chan and Spencer Howe*
ICE DANCE
Madison Chock and Evan Bates
Kaitlin Hawayek and Jean-Luc Baker
Madison Hubbell and Zachary Donohue
Alternate 1 – Christina Carreira and Anthony Ponomarenko
Alternate 2 – Caroline Green and Michael Parsons
Alternate 3 – Molly Cesanek and Yehor Yehorov*
*pending ISU decision on minimum score
RE: Karen being selected over Amber.... I was rooting for Amber to go but I understand why they went with Karen. Karen is a known quantity and has experience being at Worlds, Amber is on the upswing but still iffy on how well she'd perform under pressure. Had she landed the 3A though I think things would have been different. Anyway I think getting the three spots for the Olympics is possible but probably unlikely (although Karen was responsible for doing so for 2018 so maybe USFS is banking on that).
LOL. Karen also is sometimes 'iffy' performing under pressure. From what I can see, it appears that both Karen and Amber have been going through a journey of dealing with their nerves and outside distractions and competitive shortcomings. So I give them both credit for looking much better in general under competition pressure.Amber is on the upswing but still iffy on how well she'd perform under pressure.
He hasn't been released by Ukraine yet, so he can't be considered.I’m sorry am I missing something? Paniot is not even an alternate?
LOL. Karen also is sometimes 'iffy' performing under pressure. From what I can see, it appears that both Karen and Amber have been going through a journey of dealing with their nerves and outside distractions and competitive shortcomings. So I give them both credit for looking much better in general under competition pressure.
Sometimes, it's okay to take the risk (if it's seen as risky) to give skaters a chance to prove themselves further. Amber is not an unknown quantity to international judges. Plus Amber does not tend to have trouble with URs, whereas Karen has that rep, whether fans think it's deserved or not. Which means there's the chance that international judges may over-scrutinize Karen's landings, and they don't always fairly judge on UR calls.
Amber also has the 3-axel weapon which it would be nice if they gave her a chance to prove on the world stage. Perhaps they want Amber to prove it during a regular season with senior B and senior GP assignments, which is fine.
On the basis of the criteria, Karen is a former U.S. champion who placed 4th at Worlds previously, and they sent her to the Olympics, where she struggled. Both ladies have assets and drawbacks, but I guess they feel Karen has the BOW clout. It could go great or not-so-great for either of these ladies at Worlds. The international ladies division is deep, deep, deep and tough for U.S. ladies to place high with the politics and the overemphasis on quads and 3-axels. But again, Amber has a 3-axel. Perhaps if she'd landed it cleanly in the sp and skated completely cleanly in the fp, that might have made some difference, or not.
It boils down to giving a skater a vote of confidence for the right reason when they've earned their placement. There is a question of providing incentive and motivation. The sport simply doesn't offer sufficient competitive opportunities for its athletes.
completely agree. if this was not the year that determined olympic spots, i think they would have given much more consideration to Amber.I don't disagree with you, it's for those reasons I wanted them to send Amber. I think they would have.... had it not been the Worlds that determines spots for the Olympics. That alone complicates everything. In all honesty both are pretty close, but I think it's for that reason that USFS went with what they think is the "safer" of the two. Amber's been fairly consistent recently in putting together good SPs but she has a history of falling apart in the FS (this might have been the first time she was 100% clean). True Karen has a UR problem... but she doesn't typically have meltdowns. I think in the other thread someone had posted their recent head-to-head scores:
Karen / Amber
2021 US Champs 214.98 (3) / 215.33 (2)
2020 Skate America 204.90 (4) / 190.09 (5)
2020 Four Continents 201.06 (7) / 190.83 (9)
2020 US Champs 193.65 (4) / 186.57 (5)
At the last 4CC:
SP
Karen TSS 67.28 (TES 35.55 PCS 31.73) - one carrot
Amber TSS 65.39 (TES 33.92 PCS 31.47) - popped 1A
FS
Karen TSS 133.78 (TES 67.69 PCS 66.09) - three carrots and an edge call
Amber TSS 125.44 (TES 63.03 PCS 63.41) - popped 1A, fall on 2A, (from protocols looks like there was one other major jump error but I can't remember what it was)
So yes close, it really could have gone either way, I don't begrudge USFS their decision. And yes Amber "has" a 3A. Wakaba has a 3A too which she's been trying to land but hasn't been able to yet (not from lack of trying!) because it's hard. As I said, had Amber actually landed it at Nationals that might have made this story different. This might be moot anyway since my gut feel is Worlds won't happen, but if it does we'll see if USFS made the right decision or not.
ETA: What really complicated things was Mariah not making the podium. I guarantee USFS was banking on sending Bradie and Mariah to Worlds. Mariah would have been a safe bet given her success in the previous season, she had even outscored Satoko, so getting three spots back could have happened. But with Mariah bombing and finishing off-podium that was not possible.
I am so sad for Amber. The committee is saying that hard work, including the tremendous challenge of learning the 3A, isn't enough. I love Chen's skating but she consistently under-rotates. I love Mariah, too, but she often has meltdowns. The media love Mariah because she is cute and feminine, but Amber has the goods (fully rotated jumps, artistry, and a potential 3A), albeit also prone to meltdowns.Well yeah, there have always been rumors that the relative clout of different coaches figure into these decisions, and I can't help but wonder if there is anything to that. I also think it is unfair. I actually wouldn't have been surprised to see Mariah named, as she seems to do well with International judges. Amber is the only one of the three that actually rotates her jumps, something the international judges seem to be really cracking down on. (UR's). As lovely as Karen's skating is, there is no difference in her technical arsenal now as in the past four years, and I don't see the results being any different. I would ask the USFSA to practice transparency, and release their decision making process. They owe that to Amber and for that matter-Mariah.
I’m sorry am I missing something? Paniot is not even an alternate?
So 2021-2022 season , he can get host spot Skate America and a Challenger.He will be released from Ukraine at the end of this season and will be eligible to compete next season.
Artisty ? Where ? Amber has strong jumps but she isn’t artistry .I am so sad for Amber. The committee is saying that hard work, including the tremendous challenge of learning the 3A, isn't enough. I love Chen's skating but she consistently under-rotates. I love Mariah, too, but she often has meltdowns. The media love Mariah because she is cute and feminine, but Amber has the goods (fully rotated jumps, artistry, and a potential 3A), albeit also prone to meltdowns.
I thought it was an odd choice. I love both of them....but Amber is improving faster than Karen. Go back and look at the Tara and Johnny show on NBC. Go through the slo mow of Karen's landings and then slow down your DVR even farther....and see where Karen's blade hits the ice. Johnny is correct. He changed his opinion of the jumps after seeing them....and A. Liu's also. He is also correct that the orgs need to change their view on technology to determine where a jump is landed. As he stated, skaters' skating lives now depend on these landings. Get the judges some real monitors instead of those silly tiny note books. If NBC can record the landings like they do, there is no reason the judges cant see them also.I am surprised. I thought they would go with Amber, on principle. I am always a little bit uncomfortable about leaving these decisions in the hands of THE COMMITTEE (bwa-ha-ha) instead of having a clear criterion involving head-to-head competition.
Karen may be the same choice, but the second statement isn't true. Her BV is lower than Amber's. And, despite 5 seasons on the GP, being sent to Worlds and the Olympics, she has a never scored more than 201 points internationally. Amber would definitely score more if clean. Their respective artistry is open to individual preference although they aren't scored dramatically differently internationally in PCS , but Amber clearly has the advantage of actually rotating her jumps. Amber's problem is consistency not scoring potential.Karen is by far the safer choice with a higher scoring potential.
this is probably the main deciding factor against Amber, she's hardly ever clean and she has had pretty big meltdowns before. she also doesn't have the international reputation and PCS advantage Karen has. she's just too much of a wildcard for them to risk.Karen may be the same choice, but the second statement isn't true. Her BV is lower than Amber's. And, despite 5 seasons on the GP, being sent to Worlds and the Olympics, she has a never scored more than 201 points internationally. Amber would definitely score more if clean. Their respective artistry is open to individual preference although they aren't scored dramatically differently internationally in PCS , but Amber clearly has the advantage of actually rotating her jumps. Amber's problem is consistency not scoring potential.