I respect the creative effort and the protection of artists' rights. This is just an overreach.
Were I a skater, I would want to know if rights had been secured. But that's me.
I respect the creative effort and the protection of artists' rights. This is just an overreach.
Isn't this lawsuit about K/F's sp, House of the Rising Sun (a cover version)? I wonder whether musicians who perform cover versions of popular songs need permission to create a cover in the first place?The music is horrible---it's the only bad thing about Alexa/Brandon's FS. If I were them, I'd get new music for Worlds. Why give these litigious no-talents any more publicity. Poo on them!
Thanks for linking this article. Since figure skating events in the U.S. are chiefly shown on NBC, I suppose this means NBC obtains music rights to cover the entire season of events they broadcast (depending upon which music needs to be licensed, as music in the public domain is free to use.This article explains copyright and figure skating:
Do Olympic Figure Skaters Have to License the Music They Skate To?
Nathan Chen won gold against a backdrop of Elton John songs. But who shelled out for the music license?www.mentalfloss.com
Knierim and Frazier are not responsible for the clearances, and therefore aren't "dumb".
The brothers and their dad are trying to shake down someone, anyone for some extra cash. I hope NBC stands firm rather than pay them off.
These two situations shouldn’t be compared, since we have no idea whether permission was granted by Elton and/or his music publisher. And the requirement for permission has zero to do with the financial status of the copyright owner.I saw Elton John thanking Nathan Chen, rather than suing him. (But of course Elton John is a legendary icon with wealth beyond measure, while these two brothers are unknowns looking for a payout).
Sure, in legal terms 'zero to do.' In ethical and personal motivation terms, etc., music artists who are trying to build a career and who have limited financial resources would surely be concerned about enforcing their copyright interests. Granted, I do not understand a great deal about these issues and this area of the law, despite my brief experience in patent, trademark and intellectual property (as a paralegal).And the requirement for permission has zero to do with the financial status of the copyright owner.
good for you -- so glad things turned out well!It could be argued that wealthy/prominent music artists would be equally interested in enforcing copyright, from the standpoint of not allowing their music to be used in ways that would diminish reputation — such as for an ad campaign or to promote a disliked politician.
My heightened interest in all this is being an infringed writer who was part of a class-action suit (Reed Elsevier vs. Muchnick) that sought to end unauthorized internet distribution of 30+ years of articles. The case went all the way to the Supreme Court (we won!), but the relatively small monetary settlement wasn’t the key issue. It was to stop the stealing.
the article you mentioned above and linked earlier by @el henry indicates that for live performances, the onus is on the broadcaster to deal with the rights:Sure, in legal terms 'zero to do.' In ethical and personal motivation terms, etc., music artists who are trying to build a career and who have limited financial resources would surely be concerned about enforcing their copyright interests. Granted, I do not understand a great deal about these issues and this area of the law, despite my brief experience in patent, trademark and intellectual property (as a paralegal).
Yes, it's possible Nathan's use of the Elton John medley was previously handled by NBC in a prior season and in the lead-up to the Olympic season. The new ice dance team of Bratti/Somerville also used a similar Elton John medley at a few events this season, including at U.S. Nationals and 4CCs.
But Elton John doesn't seem to have a problem with it.the article you mentioned above and linked earlier by @el henry indicates that for live performances, the onus is on the broadcaster to deal with the rights:
Luckily for figure skaters, their Olympic routines are considered live performances, and therefore require a much less costly licensing agreement. Also luckily for figure skaters, they’re pretty far removed from both the paperwork and the payment. Instead, the broadcaster—in this case, NBC—is responsible.
NBC's legal eagles would have to be aware of this and presumably took care of it, both for Nathan and for K/F.
Re: Nathan, what lawyer in their right mind would want to mess with the likes of Elton John and a possible infringement suit?
It's not the skaters' job. I've heard that it's handled either by the USFSA, the venue, who are the broadcaster (NBC). The skaters don't have to get involved. They don't have to call the individual artist to ask permission. Think about it. If they use Elton music are they going to call Elton John or his manager and ask permission? Doesn't work like that. There are two different organizations in the US that handle making sure that music artists get paid for use of their music, ASCAP & BMI.Like I said, I can see how the band has a case; because, as you wrote, it's a really dumb error to not get clearance, but I also don't think they missed out on tons of money bc Knierim/Frazier used their music. And sure, that doesn't make much of a difference for the suit bc infringement is infringement, but idk, it comes off to me as if they saw NBC is involved and now hope to cash in.
Agreed. I'm sure EJ's attorneys and/or agents were contacted. If it hadn't happened, he would have been within his rights to sue.But Elton John doesn't seem to have a problem with it.
I'm wondering, maybe the Heathens didn't have any agreement with ASCAP or BMI to collect royalties from NBC. I would think if this happens a lot to them they could contract with either entity, but that appears to involve paying those entities money to go chase down their royalties for a cover recording. I wonder if any of that would come out when the judge reviews this case.It's not the skaters' job. I've heard that it's handled either by the USFSA, the venue, who are the broadcaster (NBC). The skaters don't have to get involved. They don't have to call the individual artist to ask permission. Think about it. If they use Elton music are they going to call Elton John or his manager and ask permission? Doesn't work like that. There are two different organizations in the US that handle making sure that music artists get paid for use of their music, ASCAP & BMI.
<snark alert>I'm wondering, maybe the Heathens didn't have any agreement with ASCAP or BMI to collect royalties from NBC. I would think if this happens a lot to them they could contract with either entity, but that appears to involve paying those entities money to go chase down their royalties for a cover recording. I wonder if any of that would come out when the judge review this case.
Hey I had the same thought in the back of my mind, just didn't post it!<snark alert>
Since their dad is a lawyer, lawsuits are probably cheaper for them.
OK, OK, I'll show myself out now.
See, in my case it came to the front of my mind and then jumped right out.Hey I had the same thought in the back of my mind, just didn't post it!
I used to work for ASCAP years ago. (First job after grad school).It's not the skaters' job. I've heard that it's handled either by the USFSA, the venue, who are the broadcaster (NBC). The skaters don't have to get involved. They don't have to call the individual artist to ask permission. Think about it. If they use Elton music are they going to call Elton John or his manager and ask permission? Doesn't work like that. There are two different organizations in the US that handle making sure that music artists get paid for use of their music, ASCAP & BMI.