Pairs' Short Program

[mousepotato]

Don't forget S/S (along with K/S) have three chances to qualify for the GPF so there was no reason not to go for the 3ATh. They are still the greatest pair in the competition (and the world) and will have no trouble making up the roughly 3 points in the free skate to win the competition.

 

[yqs100]

the zhangs land like butter. I love this program and their performance, especially impressive for the start of the season. I think they should have a greater winning margin.

agree

 

[seniorita]

wow I didnt expect that results, I , curious to see what happened..

 

[Art&Sport]

For me, I've never been a fan of the Zhangs. Altho' at 2006 Olympics, I was amazed at their comeback to skate near perfectly after that horrendous fall on an attempt at a difficult throw jump. With the disruption in that program (and despite their amazing skate afterward), they should not have been placed ahead of their teammates S/Z. I think the judges were as amazed at how Hao sucked it up and skated so well afterward. I think for the Zhangs, they were well-trained and courageous, but also had no choice, since Yao Bin (and their country) expected no less.

Z/Z look very good in their comeback. To me they are obviously inspired by/ copying the style of S/Z. I still don't feel genuine emotion or any connection between them, just practiced emotion and admirable skill. They skated extremely well and deserve to be in first. At this point, I feel since the judges love Z/Z so much, they are bound to win, no matter how well S/S perform in the free. S/S have never been judges' favorite -- it's just that S/S talent level and innovation simply can not be ignored. Judges will do what they can to keep things even, and give more benefit of doubt to V/T, Z/Z, P/T (are they still competing this season?) and name your pick of other Russian pairs over S/S. In order to stay number 1 and prevail in Sochi (if they stay eligible, which they seem focused to do), S/S will have to be superhuman and perform with such magic and precision that skate Gods would strike judges dead for not rewarding them. JMHO

 

[Violet Bliss]

^^^^ I appreciate the "JMHO". Because the whole long paragraph is all your opinions declared without substantiation.

 

[Tonichelle]

Universal Sports has the SPs on right now. I miss John skating with Caitlyn... :no: I love Caydee, too, but... I miss Caitlyn.

 

[museksk8r]

I am totally confused! I would have had Marley/Brubaker at least 3 points ahead of Denney/Coughlin in the SP, not the other way around as it turned out. Mary Beth and Rockne skate with more speed, better choreography, and more genuine joy. I felt they were much more the complete package and they should have had a much bigger edge over Caydee and John in the PCS scoring. It's clear the USFSA is shamelessly trying to promote D/C as the top American pair, and it mystifies me as to why. :think:

 

[aemeraldrainc]

Universal Sports has the SPs on right now. I miss John skating with Caitlyn... :no: I love Caydee, too, but... I miss Caitlyn.

Universal Sports!! Yeay!
I was never a huge Caydee fan, but I appreciate the improvements she's made this season.
I miss Caitlyn, too.
She needs to find a partner asap, darn it!

 

[Mathman]

I am totally confused! I would have had Marley/Brubaker at least 3 points ahead of Denney/Coughlin in the SP, not the other way around as it turned out. Mary Beth and Rockne skate with more speed, better choreography, and more genuine joy. I felt they were much more the complete package and they should have had a much bigger edge over Caydee and John in the PCS scoring. It's clear the USFSA is shamelessly trying to promote D/C as the top American pair, and it mystifies me as to why. :think:

Agree about Marley and Brubaker. Excellent performance.

 

[Tonichelle]

Universal Sports!! Yeay!

Thought of you this morning when it came on!

Wow... not liking this SP for S/S and I adore them. Hate her boots, or are they boot covers?

 

[Mathman]

Are Inoue and Baldwin the only team ever to do a throw triple Axel?

 

[Tonichelle]

Are Inoue and Baldwin the only team ever to do a throw triple Axel?

In competition I think so...

 

[museksk8r]

I miss Caitlyn, too.
She needs to find a partner asap, darn it!

I totally agree! Caitlin Yankowskas is exquisite and IMO is the finest ladies US pairs skater since Tai Babilonia. Her absence is a very big loss to the sport of US pairs skating.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

For me, I've never been a fan of the Zhangs. Altho' at 2006 Olympics, I was amazed at their comeback to skate near perfectly after that horrendous fall on an attempt at a difficult throw jump. With the disruption in that program (and despite their amazing skate afterward), they should not have been placed ahead of their teammates S/Z. I think the judges were as amazed at how Hao sucked it up and skated so well afterward. I think for the Zhangs, they were well-trained and courageous, but also had no choice, since Yao Bin (and their country) expected no less.

Z/Z look very good in their comeback. To me they are obviously inspired by/ copying the style of S/Z. I still don't feel genuine emotion or any connection between them, just practiced emotion and admirable skill. They skated extremely well and deserve to be in first. At this point, I feel since the judges love Z/Z so much, they are bound to win, no matter how well S/S perform in the free. S/S have never been judges' favorite -- it's just that S/S talent level and innovation simply can not be ignored. Judges will do what they can to keep things even, and give more benefit of doubt to V/T, Z/Z, P/T (are they still competing this season?) and name your pick of other Russian pairs over S/S. In order to stay number 1 and prevail in Sochi (if they stay eligible, which they seem focused to do), S/S will have to be superhuman and perform with such magic and precision that skate Gods would strike judges dead for not rewarding them. JMHO

Disagree so profoundly it makes my head hurt.

a) On what evidence do the judges love the Zhangs so much? Actually, given how profoundly the team was dumped over the Olympic season, I think the exact opposite - that they could only score 62 despite a clean performance demonstrates just how far behind the top teams (who can clear 70) they are. This won't get that high.

b) Recalling last season that Mt/M scored 2.5 points less than S/S (and they are a lesser team than the Zhangs, imo) and were utterly blown away by twenty points in the free, I don't think you need to worry. The PCS comparison? Only .18 difference (last year vs this year), which adjusted for factoring, is one component being judged one level higher by all the judges. Given that they went on to win Worlds with two records created.....

c) But lets look at this event. They were hurt by

• low base value for a high risk element (if the 3ATh was at 8.5, they would be in second)
• Errors on three of the seven elements (fall, crashy twist, two-footing the SBS 3T)
• Lower base value for a fourth element (their spin was level two)
• Devlish complexity actually hurting their PCS because they couldn't attack the program like we've seen in the past

It's a shame, really, but it's a system, not judging.

 

[mousepotato]

For me, I've never been a fan of the Zhangs. Altho' at 2006 Olympics, I was amazed at their comeback to skate near perfectly after that horrendous fall on an attempt at a difficult throw jump. With the disruption in that program (and despite their amazing skate afterward), they should not have been placed ahead of their teammates S/Z. I think the judges were as amazed at how Hao sucked it up and skated so well afterward. I think for the Zhangs, they were well-trained and courageous, but also had no choice, since Yao Bin (and their country) expected no less.

Z/Z look very good in their comeback. To me they are obviously inspired by/ copying the style of S/Z. I still don't feel genuine emotion or any connection between them, just practiced emotion and admirable skill. They skated extremely well and deserve to be in first. At this point, I feel since the judges love Z/Z so much, they are bound to win, no matter how well S/S perform in the free. S/S have never been judges' favorite -- it's just that S/S talent level and innovation simply can not be ignored. Judges will do what they can to keep things even, and give more benefit of doubt to V/T, Z/Z, P/T (are they still competing this season?) and name your pick of other Russian pairs over S/S. In order to stay number 1 and prevail in Sochi (if they stay eligible, which they seem focused to do), S/S will have to be superhuman and perform with such magic and precision that skate Gods would strike judges dead for not rewarding them. JMHO

I'm not sure where to start; The Zhangs looked great yesterday and got a 62+, that's not love. 72 points would have been love. S/S had the worst short I have ever seen from yet they are tied with 3 other teams and only 3 or so points behind the leaders.

S/S have never been the judges favorite? They have competed 50 times and medaled every time but four, that's love; or I should probably say skill on S/S part.

S/S just have to phone in the long program and will have no trouble making up the three points they need to win. Even with the score the Zhangs got at the inflated Chinese nationals wasn't very high. They may get more love at home at the COC, I guess we'll see.

I just hope Aliona didn't get hurt, it didn't look like she did but you can never tell. I also love how everyone got credit for the elements.

 

[dorispulaski]

ITA about Caitlyn.

M&B, base value 27.60 in the SP (Only got level 1 for the step sequence, level 1 for the triple twist)

D&C, base value 30.60 in the SP (Level 4 for the step sequence, level 2 for the triple twist)
Plus the difference between level 1 steps and level 4 steps generally translates into more points for "Skating Skills"

3.0 base points in the SP is a whopping big difference.

That would be why.

That, and there is no point category for "joy", AFAIK. Maybe a little bit of "Performance" under PCS.

 

[museksk8r]

M&B, base value 27.60 in the SP (Only got level 1 for the step sequence, level 1 for the triple twist)

D&C, base value 30.60 in the SP (Level 4 for the step sequence, level 2 for the triple twist)
Plus the difference between level 1 steps and level 4 steps generally translates into more points for "Skating Skills"

3.0 base points in the SP is a whopping big difference.

That would be why.

That, and there is no point category for "joy", AFAIK. Maybe a little bit of "Performance" under PCS.

Doris, you make me cry. This sport, and gymnastics, have become far too analytical. I can see on the protocols why the scoring happened the way it did, lower levels, etc., but for me some components of the PCS marks should be based more on feeling that cannot be quantified. I don't need a set of numbers to see that Mary Beth and Rockne skate with more speed, fluidity, and better choreography. That is quality, not quantity. Caydee and John, like Rachael Flatt, do not capture the essence of the music "East of Eden", IMO. I don't see anything ethereal, light, peaceful, or joyous about these 3 skaters, which is why I feel this piece of music does not work for them and their style of skating. I think their performance, choreography, and interpretation scores should be lower as a result. Mary Beth and Rockne sweep me away more than Caydee and John, who skate too laboriously for me.

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

If they can't be quantified, how can you create a number for them to justify a higher PCS? Isn't your enjoyment enough?

 

[museksk8r]

If they can't be quantified, how can you create a number for them to justify a higher PCS? Isn't your enjoyment enough?

That's the flaw in any judging system I guess. How can anyone quantify something as subjective as personal joy?

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

I agree with you - I'd much rather watch M/B than D/C, though I believe in a system that places equal weight on the sum of the parts as it does on the sum presented (if that makes sense), D/C should end up ahead.