Should minimum age for seniors be raised?

[Spirals for Miles]

This is ridiculous. It sounds like some people are hurt that their skaters or favorites aren't winning and are grasping at straws. We don't know what quads will do to a young body, so we can't assume, either way. This just sounds like an easy way to get the top threats out of the competition. If the best are the best, they should be competing at the top level.

 

[el henry]

The best of the best should be in the seniors, whether or not they are 15 or 28 ... I understand the concerns over devleopment but i can see this easily getting to a situation where juniors has tighter competition and is more exciting to the most people then seniors

I see posters say "the best" and what they mean is "what I think is the best". Which is fine, this is the internet, and everyone has their own opinion, but....

I found what little I saw of the junior ladies to be and I certainly didn't think that ability to land jumps made the junior ladies "the best". I certainly didn't find it more exciting than the senior ladies. I love the junior men, but I do not find them more exciting than the senior men, and that has zippity do dah to do with the senior men's ability to land quads. ETA: and the senior ladies were not more exciting, to me, because of Alina, so whether she was junior or senior made little difference to me

There will be no mad rush from the majority of fans to watch juniors if the age is raised. No matter how many jumps they do

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

What I think is good for the sport is that the skaters have longer careers so that we see rivalries like Yuna vs Mao or Michelle vs Irina again. I used to think age restrictions may be part of the answer, as it could encourage coaches to teach jump technique that would survive puberty, but it seems like that may not be the best solution. Evgenia has had three solid seasons as a senior, so she has shown that it's possible to make a successful transition from a top junior to a top senior. The current age restrictions seem to not really accomplish anything, since the technical bar at the junior level is often higher than it is for the senior competitors.

 

[moriel]

I disagree. Raising age for seniors means artificially holding back the sport.
I think it is fine as it is. If we believe oldest girls have something to show that the kids dont (ok, doubtfully, please list top seniors with better artistry than Kostornaia, for example), then they should work on this. Kostner is just fine skating around at 30, winning medals and all. Osmond is World Champion.

Last but not least, I actually think that it is a great idea to let those youngsters to compete and win (nobody except hardcore fans care about juniors, all that matters are senior competitions) while they are young, so they can easily move on with their lives later on, for example by entering a university at the age of 18-20. It is much easier to do it when you have won a lot of stuff by the age of 18, and it is much harder to do this when you are 20+ (See Bruno Massot for example and how he needed financial support from his parents).

 

[libecha]

In theory it sounds good but I'm not sure what exactly it would accomplish. Raising the minimum age is not going to make talented juniors stop training quads or lessen their training regimen, not when they're all competing with each other. If evidence becomes available that quad jumps cause skeletal damage in children, then the solution is to ban that element under a certain age, not just raise the age for seniors. For example, FINA does not allow competitive 10m platform diving for kids under 14 because repeated impacts with the water from that height is known to damage growth plates and stunt the full adult height. But until such evidence is available (hopefully without too many guinea pigs), the desired effect of such a move seems unclear and poorly founded.

 

[gmyers]

So? I don't see the purpose of this rule, but this is a nonsensical argument. Plus, if it passes, they could easily target 2026.

But if people are peaking at 15 with most difficultly they shouldn’t be robbed of 2022. SO 2026 would be too late

 

[chopinskate]

But if the rule passes, people will have more time to train and peak, perfecting everything.

 

[el henry]

But if the rule passes, people will have more time to train and peak, perfecting everything.

:agree:

The rule is NOT holding anyone back, is NOT stopping the best of the best, and is NOT an impediment to progress, progress, progress, in this sport.

Why would folks be so afraid of it, except that they think these girls *will* lose their jumps? If they do, then they were never “the best”. If they don’t, so much the better

 

[chopinskate]

Seriously, I think this rule is garbage, and is being forwarded by these coaches out of fear and hypocrisy, but people are forgetting that the ladies' field used to have more competitiveness from "older" ( ) women, because they'd spent more time perfecting their artistic side, even if the tech side had started to slip. And this isn't even true in some cases -- Kostner had the best technique out of all women in WC18, by far, and Yuna and Kostner both had exceptional technique in 2014 OWG.

 

[Amei]

I think this is an over-reaction, the 'young ones' being on top is cyclical. They get the most buzz because they are doing the more difficult jumps and their new on the scene vs. the older skaters. Its a lot easier to appeal to the masses on covering a massive jump vs. 'look at her beautiful lines' or "she expresses this music so well with her arms"

I don´t think that´s the point of the article. A least not completely:
Allow kids to mature so the artistry is more on point when they get to compete in seniors.
That the jumps in kids bodies could have a more permanent damage and raising the age of competition could help slow down the time where the child start trying them

Bradie Tennell made her senior debut when she was closer to 20 than 19 and I would say that her artistry is no better than the 14-15 years olds that have made their senior debut in the last few years. I understand that part of her later start in seniors was due to injury, but still her artistry is no better. Mariah Bell was roughly 18 when she debuted as a senior (no major injury that myself or Wikipedia know of) and to this day her artistry doesn't extend much past smiling cutesy routines.

 

[tars]

Why would folks be so afraid of it, except that they think these girls *will* lose their jumps? If they do, then they were never “the best”.

How so?
Trusova is actually the best jumper in the world, no matter what's gonna happen to her over the next few years. :confused2:

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

In theory it sounds good but I'm not sure what exactly it would accomplish. Raising the minimum age is not going to make talented juniors stop training quads or lessen their training regimen, not when they're all competing with each other. If evidence becomes available that quad jumps cause skeletal damage in children, then the solution is to ban that element under a certain age, not just raise the age for seniors. For example, FINA does not allow competitive 10m platform diving for kids under 14 because repeated impacts with the water from that height is known to damage growth plates and stunt the full adult height. But until such evidence is available (hopefully without too many guinea pigs), the desired effect of such a move seems unclear and poorly founded.

For me, the one compelling reason to consider age limits is to protect very young women from the body scrutiny that could lead to severe eating disorders. We see a lot of skaters have very normal transitions from girl bodies to more womanly builds, and I imagine it's hard to make that transition with the eyes of the world on you.

 

[temadd]

If it's called "junior" and "senior" then 15 and 16 year old girls should be in juniors. I say 17 for women is the right call. Girls in general, mature faster than boys and are usually pretty mature physically by 17. But raise it to 16 next season, then 17 the next.

 

[Pchykeen]

I think no one would disagree that we want skaters to stay healthy. But one of the reasons mentioned in that article for considering a rule change is "competitive equity," or leveling the playing field.

For men I'm not convinced there is a case for this, if leveling the playing field is your concern. Quads have been around for long enough in the men's event to show us that new jumping teenagers don't necessarily upend the entire competitive landscape. In general, men tend to peak later in their careers so the older men have less to fear. Biology is already leveling the playing field for them.

For women -- I just think it's too early to say. Quads have never been a thing at the senior level for ladies, thus any predictions we make about how a handful of quad-jumping 15-year-olds would affect the entire competitive landscape in seniors is just a guess right now. Who knows, after a few seasons we may decide things turned out OK or we may decide there's a big problem.

So yes, if there's good reason to think a rule change is the best thing for the skaters' health, I'd be all for it (though I agree with libecha that the way to do this is to put an age requirement on certain jumps). However, if they're going to change the rules to "level the playing field" -- in other words, to protect the existing senior skaters -- I'd want them to act only if there's good evidence that hordes of female skaters are being rendered irrelevant at like 17 or 18.

 

[el henry]

How so?
Trusova is actually the best jumper in the world, no matter what's gonna happen to her over the next few years. :confused2:

You are right about jumping. My opinion, and I realize it may not be shared by many, is that the best jumper is not the best skater. Otherwise we could have X Games ice jumping and dispense with music, programs and all that other stuff.

I realize judges may not agree with me, particularly with the quad PCS boost that is so prevalent in the men's skating. I don't follow enough ladies with quads to know if they get the quad PCS boost.

But if quads are truly the wave of the future, then a 14 year old or 15 year old girl who does quads should be able to do them as a 17 year old, and any rule raising the age of senior ladies would not stop them.:confused2:

 

[moriel]

You are right about jumping. My opinion, and I realize it may not be shared by many, is that the best jumper is not the best skater. Otherwise we could have X Games ice jumping and dispense with music, programs and all that other stuff.

I realize judges may not agree with me, particularly with the quad PCS boost that is so prevalent in the men's skating. I don't follow enough ladies with quads to know if they get the quad PCS boost.

But if quads are truly the wave of the future, then a 14 year old or 15 year old girl who does quads should be able to do them as a 17 year old, and any rule raising the age of senior ladies would not stop them.:confused2:

Of course raising the age could stop quite a few ladies.
If I was Trusova, and they raised the senior age requirement to 17 right now, and forced me to stay in juniors for a couple more years just so someone like Kostner can win a couple more medals with 4 triples in her programs, I would rage quit figure skating and go do something else.

Anyways, lets look from the other angle.
If a 14 years old who does quads should be able to still do them at 17, a 17 years old should be able to learn quads. And a 20 years old too. Look, Voronov got some quads quite late in his 20s, Mirai got her 3A recently too, so why should it be different for everybody else?
Turning senior shouldn't stop them from learning new elements at the age of 15. If they don't and lose to 15 years old with quads and 3As, that is deserved, because lack of progress should not be rewarded.

 

[inver]

It will not be interesting to watch for years at the same old falling athletes, who can't simply clean skate their simplest content.
And why do you think that increasing age will help athletes maintain their health? They will just continue to skate and jump in juniors the same way. This is some sort of protection for pensioners for whom the maximum is 3F-3T

 

[j00mla]

An attempt to say something logical:

Viktor Petrenko - "bring in more mature skating and (allow) the younger generation to stay more healthy while they are growing."

let me think about it:

1) the most tough competition now is in the junior ladies field
2) then age limits will be changed
3) number of ladies competing in junior field will be raised
4) toughness of the competition will raise too
5) does anyone think girls will train with less zeal than now and have less injuries?

My question - from what galaxy that logic is?

 

[Kara]

3) number of ladies competing in junior field will be raised
4) toughness of the competition will raise too

This is my real number one reason for not wanting this. You're going to have a giant junior field and only so many competitions with less prize money and chances for international spotlight. I can only see people being discouraged.

 

[Shayuki]

I would much rather lower it than raise it. Having to wait one more year for Shcherbakova is a shame. Having to wait for even longer for Akatieva is an even greater one.

Whatever the viewpoint one tries to use, the reality is that juniors are currently stronger than seniors. This difference would only become more pronounced. And I do not think that it is correct that relatively minor competitions with little notority or fame are at a higher level than the supposed mainstream events with significant coverage. Seniors should always be the highest level of competition.