Ladies skating 2018 and beyond

[aromaticchicken]

Gracie and Ashley would have had a much tougher time making a world team if they were up against Julia and Adelina in 2014, Liza and Elena in 2015, and Evgenia and Anna in 2016. I think it's more accurate to say that Russia has far more depth in both juniors and seniors than the Americans.

I disagree. Gracie in 2014 and Ashley in 2015 had two of their best ever performances at nationals those years. Ashley would definitely have been "Russian national champion" with her program at U.S. nationals in 2015, especially since she consistently earns better PCS than Radionova has. It would be tougher for them, but it would also be tougher for the Russians if you threw Gracie and Ashley into Russian nationals, too.

But yes, Russia has more depth in both juniors and seniors than the U.S., no disagreement there. But do they have more depth than Japan?

 

[OS]

Whaa .... anyone seen this? Kids do crazy stuff!! What are they feeding them at the Cricket Club!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKrXU01ANgX/?taken-by=elizabet_tursynbaeva

Go lil lizzie!

 

[Isabel_O'Reilly]

Uhm, it's been occurring to me that it's possible that Russian girls/women are also in some ways biological late developers. As with gymnasts, they are able to acquire very high level skills and reach the senior age minimum before peak growth and puberty. And this is late enough that they can compete as seniors.

What posters seem to be saying is that we see that the Russian program is doing a great job at finding and developing this talent early on. But while the girls can get to the highest elite performance levels before going through the peak growth and puberty stages, the system is not doing as well in managing the and supporting their physical and psychological transition it appears. There is an observable inconsistency in performance after puberty, and promising talents appear to be at risk.

But much of that is simply the pressure that exists, right? And the fact that there are 3-6 other ladies who are World Medal caliber that Russia can send so that they will have their best results. In any other country Yulia would have been sent to Worlds in 2015, and Elizaveta would have been sent in 2016. In US, Canada, Japan etc. there have been one or two possible medal contenders with the remaining spot who could probably finish in the top 10 who are age-eligible. In 2015, Russia had 5 medal contenders(am I forgetting anybody?), in 2016 there were 7, and now in 2017 aren't there 8 or 9? And I think of those only Yulia and Elizaveta had two consecutive seasons where there was a dramatic decline in performance.

The others have all had pretty similar levels throughout their seasons consistent like Elena or consistently inconsistent like Anna and just do better or worse based on how others perform. One is a breakout star because she skates the best but if she falters even a little bit it's not that she's not good but merely that the level of everyone else eligible is so high that another will shine because Russia does not have to send only the ladies with championship experience and can just send the best three of the pool of talent.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

I disagree. Gracie in 2014 and Ashley in 2015 had two of their best ever performances at nationals those years. Ashley would definitely have been "Russian national champion" with her program at U.S. nationals in 2015, especially since she consistently earns better PCS than Radionova has. It would be tougher for them, but it would also be tougher for the Russians if you threw Gracie and Ashley into Russian nationals, too.

Ashley would not have made the Russian team in 2014 or 2016, while Gracie would have probably missed in 2014 and 2015. Ashley also gets very generous rotation calls at nationals which might not be the case if she competed in Russia. Those two plus Polina benefit tremendously from the lack of junior talent here.

 

[hippomoomin]

I think many skaters have the chance to peak late; but in Russia, if you don't peak early, say before 16, you probably have quit skating already. Ashley is the only American skater who "peaks" late and reached the World podium. For Gracie, we are not sure if she already peaked. Some other top ladies, such Christina and Agnes retired, and they didn't retire at the best moment of their career. Caroline Zhang peaked early, and so as Mirai. Now let's hope Polina Edmunds can peak late and stay beyond 2018.

Since "Americans" tend to peak late, I would not throw them out of the mix. But at this point, it is anyone's guess who this late bloomer will be. 10 years ago, no one would have guessed that Gracie and Ashley would be at the top.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Whaa .... anyone seen this? Kids do crazy stuff!! What are they feeding them at the Cricket Club!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKrXU01ANgX/?taken-by=elizabet_tursynbaeva

Go lil lizzie!

It's 'Lil Bet !!!!!

 

[4everchan]

she rotates so fast... i need a slow motion LOL... time for a jumpomatron ? (no idea how you spell that)

It's 'Lil Bet !!!!!

 

[Krislite]

Whaa .... anyone seen this? Kids do crazy stuff!! What are they feeding them at the Cricket Club!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKrXU01ANgX/?taken-by=elizabet_tursynbaeva

Go lil lizzie!

What the... is that a QUAD loop? :shocked:

Edit: never mind, quad Salchow! but that's still impressive.

 

[matmuh]

she rotates so fast... i need a slow motion LOL... time for a jumpomatron ? (no idea how you spell that)

here you go and the gif set

 

[4everchan]

thanks... where are the people who tell us that it's UR? are they silent because it's clean ? or are they just late to the party ? :scard8:

here you go and the gif set

 

[Marin]

thanks... where are the people who tell us that it's UR? are they silent because it's clean ? or are they just late to the party ? :scard8:

those people checked and ratified as clean (ish)

 

[OS]

thanks... where are the people who tell us that it's UR? are they silent because it's clean ? or are they just late to the party ? :scard8:

More like spoilt the party. Oh Russian and Japan rule...lol... they may well try, but one thing I hope the sport will move towards to for youngsters from all over, is they will get equal opportunity, less of federation/nationalistic politics, rivalry, marking trends. A sport of true meritocracy... well.. or as close to it as possible now no more anonymity.

 

[4everchan]

you are a dreamer but we need that

More like spoilt the party. Oh Russian and Japan rule...lol... they may well try, but one thing I hope the sport will move towards to for youngsters from all over, is they will get equal opportunity, less of federation/nationalistic politics, rivalry, marking trends. A sport of true meritocracy... well.. or as close to it as possible now no more anonymity.

 

[Crossover]

Whaa .... anyone seen this? Kids do crazy stuff!! What are they feeding them at the Cricket Club!

https://www.instagram.com/p/BKrXU01ANgX/?taken-by=elizabet_tursynbaeva

Go lil lizzie!

Impressive. I'm wondering if she plans to participate in any challenger series and to bring it into her program.

If her 4S can be stable, this season's ladies events are gonna be so exciting.

 

[4everchan]

yup... this weekend i'll see her

Impressive. I'm wondering if she plans to participate in any challenger series and to bring it into her program.

If her 4S can be stable, this season's ladies events are gonna be so exciting.

 

[matmuh]

yup... this weekend i'll see her

lucky you!! i hope it will go better than US Classic :yay:

 

[4everchan]

yeah... i think US Classic was just a weird event... she's much better than that this being said, I have no idea if she will try the 4S but if she does, I will try not to blink

lucky you!! i hope it will go better than US Classic :yay:

 

[Crossover]

yeah... i think US Classic was just a weird event... she's much better than that this being said, I have no idea if she will try the 4S but if she does, I will try not to blink

You can perhaps witness her making history live in person!

 

[concorde]

but in Russia, if you don't peak early, say before 16, you probably have quit skating already.

In Russia, skaters have to meet certain timetables. If they don't meet them, they are cut from the "team." Only if you are on the "team" are you going to get funding (which includes lessons, quality ice time, programs, skates/boots, and off-ice). Once cut from the team, all this goes away and even finding a coach to teach you are private lesson is next to impossible. At least that is was how it was explained to me from a mother whose daughter is currently on the "team." By "team," I mean currently funded by the Federation and in the pipeline, but not necessarily yet reached the Junior or Senior ranks.

As a parent, I view that Russian focuses a lot on developing their skaters, while the US focuses on the developed skater.

My impression is the Chinese system is more like the US system. My neighbor has a niece who is a Chinese skater who visited for the summer. The Chinese mother seem unfazed by the US system while the mother of the Russian skater seemed overwhelmed by the US system. I'm curious how accurate my impression.

 

[moriel]

In Russia, skaters have to meet certain timetables. If they don't meet them, they are cut from the "team." Only if you are on the "team" are you going to get funding (which includes lessons, quality ice time, programs, skates/boots, and off-ice). Once cut from the team, all this goes away and even finding a coach to teach you are private lesson is next to impossible. At least that is was how it was explained to me from a mother whose daughter is currently on the "team." By "team," I mean currently funded by the Federation and in the pipeline, but not necessarily yet reached the Junior or Senior ranks.

As a parent, I view that Russian focuses a lot on developing their skaters, while the US focuses on the developed skater.

My impression is the Chinese system is more like the US system. My neighbor has a niece who is a Chinese skater who visited for the summer. The Chinese mother seem unfazed by the US system while the mother of the Russian skater seemed overwhelmed by the US system. I'm curious how accurate my impression.

Well, as a gov. program, it makes sense. There is no money avaliable to support everybody, so they do support the skaters that show some results.
Funding everybody to see if someone is a late bloomer wouldnt work, unfortunately, a bit too expensive.