2017 Jr Worlds Ladies SP

[Mrs. P]

Give Chem a break guys. She doesn't have to do this for you all....

 

[4everchan]

Give Chem a break guys. She doesn't have to do this for you all....

you think they will give a break to a generous poster when they cannot give a break to the skaters themselves?

 

[silverfoxes]

I don't like cutesy princess-y packaging as a rule, but I think Marin is one of the very few who can pull it off sincerely, along with Zijun Li. For a junior skater I think her packaging is just fine, although I much preferred per programs last year (Beetlejuice!). I am sure she will try some other styles as she matures.

I'm very sorry that Alexandra Feigen just missed qualifying - she obviously needs better programs/presentation, but I see a lot of raw talent there...sad to think what an uphill battle she has representing a weak fed like Bulgaria. And Diana Nikitina Unfortunately, the Latvian girls don't seem to be handling puberty very well.

Nothing much to add about the Russian girls...just sadness for Polina.

 

[mrrice]

Ok. Comments like these make me want to vomit. She's a child.

I agree 100%. If you don't appreciate a skater, don't watch them skate. That's what snack and bathroom breaks are for. If you're watching a video and don't like what you see, skip to the next one without comment. It's very easy to do.

 

[guitarist]

ANDREA MONTESINOS CANTU QUALIFIED FOR THE FS!

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

Same! I have very little interest in Ladies, juniors or seniors, but I stayed up for long enough to watch her and then went straight to bed thinking "Damn, she has a shot, but it's tiny", and it wad great to wake up to see she'd made it! She looked so disappointed after the SP, I hope she's back to the happiness from Yokohama. And Donovan and the other kids cheering for her were adorable.

 

[OS]

I looked into this a couple of months ago because I was curious. The main problem imo is that not a lot of non-European countries that are ISU members actually have ISU judges that they can enter in the draw. F.e. South Africa has one judge for singles and pairs and one judge can only be entered in one draw - mens, ladies or pairs in that case. So the big nations who have a lot of judges can enter up to four judges, one for each discipline. If you only have one judge you can only participate in one draw. So the solution is that the non-European countries simply need more ISU judges. If the ISU makes this particularly hard maybe you have a conspiracy theory there but I guess we all want well educated judges.
And I don't think that European judges highly favour Russian skaters, at least the judges from Western European countries don't have a tendency to do that (no proof, just my personal impression).
The chances of having a single non-European judge at Europeans f.e. are zero, simply because they draw the panel from European countries only because they have enough judges.

I wouldn't have bothered commenting too much, but when the scoring has shown to be slanted as seen in the unprecedented score hikes for the Russians Jrs like Evgenia since her 1st year debut, and now 14 years old Alina who has just scored 70 (70!!) in a junior program, the sport has shown it is full of the double standard and hypocrisy. So Jun Hwan Cha should not earn high PCS due to his lack of experience, but 14 years old mechanical Alina (movements for movement's sake with little purpose or awareness) ought to get a better score than Evgenia has ever received as a junior, while Marin Like Hwan who is obvious to all (with attention to detail to choreography and musicality) did not receive higher PCS difference to the rest of the field, be robbed of their chance because of another slanted panel - how convenient. Doesn't the score all feel a bit artificial to you?

The make up of panel need to be evaluated to minimize subjective judging, avoid cultural and geographical biases even when judges are trying to mark honestly and in good faith. There are inherent biases, they are human.

A world championship is a global event, and its judges should be represented globally to ensure a level playing field for all.

If ISU continues NOT able to find any other judges apart from Europeans at ladies global event, and that only the Europeans continues to get generous marks, then ISU is clearly taking the p*ss and has completely failed as a sport governing body. Or frankly, there's something funny going by those in charge - how convenient.

 

[venx]

I think when talking about juniors we should choose words more carefully and some of the posts are just rude (((

It's Russia vs Japan one year before Winter Olympics. 3+ potential 2018 medallists on stage. Tension!

 

[matcha]

Marin is such a doll, she skated wonderfully here I remember reading comments a while ago about her coach saying she doesn't train enough, I hope she's putting in the ffort now.

Poor Polina, she should be right up there, but I'm not counting out the chance of a podium finish with with free.

Kaori is like a bullet on the ice, so fast, as she matures and works on her movement and presentation, she'll be a force if she can be consistent.

Zagitova... posture bbgirl, but it's not Elena levels so OK.

Congrats to all the girls who skated, especially those at their first worlds. Here's to a nail-biting free.

 

[silverlake22]

Well not looking good for CAN here! Sarah has little to no chance of making the top 12 - which I thought she might be able to do. She seems to have the ability but does not seem to be able to do it when it counts. She can have some good results in minor events and shows promise but then falls apart in the big events.

I believe Sarah would have to finish in the top 10 to get 2 spots for next year anyways.

Rough week for Team Canada as a whole. The future looks rather uncertain at this point. I guess Conrad and one of the pair teams did okay. Hopefully Sarah can pull up in the FS a bit.

 

[mirai4life]

Awesome performances from the top ladies. Fingers are crossing for Eun Soo!

edit: yeah, polina (((

 

[FlattFan]

Give Chem a break guys. She doesn't have to do this for you all....

It was clearly a joke.

 

[FlattFan]

Alina is such a TES queen, I don't know any girl who can beat her in TES. I think she will be impossible to beat given the right programs and right packaging.
Marin should be a PCS queen, but they aren't acknowledging her as such. She doesn't have the TES to compete with Alina. She's at a disadvantage right now.

Ideally, they should be pushing each other on both front.

 

[Lipea]

2 + 3 = 8? Chemistry66? Thank goodness you aren't Math66.
And Marin can give me candy anytime. I'm sad people don't enjoy sweets. Maybe salty is your taste profile.

I love sweets when they have more substance rather than when you cannot feel a taste of anything but sugar (which here in America is almost everywhere unfortunately...)
Same with salt.

 

[hippomoomin]

Just had a chance to watch top skaters. Sad for Polina. Hope she redeem herself in the LP.

Based on the score, I thought Marin was flawless... but surprised to see she traveled a lot in her first two spins. I don't think her performance is the best ever from her, but judges rewarded her for being clean. She has great flow but she is not the fastest among the top skaters. Both Eun soo and Kaori are faster with better jumps. I don't get "her skating is from another world"

Eun soo is underscored. She is light, fast with great flow. Her jumps should be rewarded with more GEO.

Zagitova deserves to be on the top, for skating a super difficult program. I am sure she is capable of skating a more conventional program if her coach gives her one like that.

 

[rosy14]

It exactly works that way. In other way Lipinski, Hughes, Sotnikova, Lysacek etc. would have never won Olympics...

In sports with judges, Olympics are won for a lot of reasons, some of which have never to do with the athlete concerned and his/her performance.

 

[xeyra]

I'm finally watching the Ladies SPs and a few comments from those I've watched so far:

This is the first time I've watched Kaori and I'm a fan! She has amazing speed and her jumps are not only big but her flow OUT of her jumps is gorgeous. Her 3Lo in particular had such a nice landing edge that she held for such a good while that it made me happy. As much as I may enjoy some good transitions out of jumps, I do love watching a good flowing edge too. Her skating is not as smooth as Marin's but that was an amazing performance nonetheless and I understand now all the comments during her performance I was reading about her speed, because it IS noticeable. Edit: And she did a back counter 2A. Atta girl.

So sad about Polina. I am not particularly fond of parts of her SP choreography (miming, why do all the Eteri girls mime!) but I do love the music choice and I love her jumps. I'm hoping for a redemption in her FS a la Daniel Samohin! Bring it, girl!

I think this is the first time I've watched Marin's SP and she is really lovely. So smooth and flowy and her Step Sequence was like butter. Good jumps too, but I actually prefer Kaori's in this particular department. Plus, she is such a cutie. If only she hadn't decided to wear pink for both SP and FS this year. Some variety, girl!

I like Alina's SP a lot more than her FS, because backloading 3 jumps in 2 and a half minutes is completely different in terms of balance and composition to backloading all jumps in a 4 minute performance. I understand everyone who says she doesn't hold most positions for any long time (I hate that foot pick up that is dropped right away she does often; it's like she changes her mind halfway and it's so jarring) and I do think she is a bit overscored in PCS compared to Marin, Polina and others (or maybe the others are underscored), but I do think she hits all those TES points legitimately and her spins are definitely lovely (except her sloooow Camel).

Eunsoon made me want to dance. Amazing musical choice! I approve. Loved her performance! Especially at the second half, when she started shaking those shoulders!

As for Yuna, I must comment first that I love her dress (this is also one of those times I wish ladies could also wear black boots because they'd fit so much better). Really lovely performance too. I hadn't actually seen any of the Japanese Junior girls aside from Marin's FS and I'm actually really enjoying them. I am going to keep an eye on these girls.

Anyways, these are the videos I've watched so far. I may check a few others still. Onwards to the FS tomorrow!

 

[randomfan]

Was going to watch but didn't wake up in time...

1. Alina Zagitova: I'm just about done with her ridiculous backloading and rushing. I give up on seeing her TES be lower, but PCS should definitely be much lower than that. She has good transitions and skating skills are fine, but everything else is not that good...
2. Marin Honda: Great to see her do so well! Marin is truly a wonder - how does a young girl have such talent and skills? She is lovely and I'm hoping that she skates a (finally) clean FS tomorrow.
3. Kaori Sakamoto: People seem to be picking on Kaori a lot too, but I actually enjoy her a lot. The program isn't...well, good, but her energy and those incredible skating skills just blow me away. The entrance into the 3Lo is unreal, and her 3F-3T is awesome. Good job!
4. Eunsoo Lim: Another fantastic skate. I wouldn't actually have too much of a problem about her PCS if Alina's wasn't a 29. Anyway, it's impressive how Eunsoo is among the top group with the Japanese and Russian skaters, even though her PCS is usually at a disadvantage. Like Marin, I hope she can get it together in the FS too.
5. Yuna Shiraiwa: The packaging is still a bit...odd, but she will turn senior next season so I'm not too worried about that. Like the others, I really liked her performance and she has great skating skills as well.
6. Stanislava Konstantinova: Haven't watched her yet...
11. Polina Tsurskaya: Heartbroken for her... Even if she does well in the FS (which is what I'm hoping for), it'll be hard to reach the podium...

 

[Lipea]

I never understood where the "princess" comments come from. In my opinion, figure skating is a really tough sport that needs a lot of discipline and training. If you're a 'spoilt' girl and lazy you certainly won't get far in this very tough world. Is it because some skaters like pink and sparkles? We all know that figure skating is a very visual thing, too. I don't see anything wrong with dressing up and feeling comfortable in a pretty costume is good for your performance. You are extremely exposed on the ice and I think that's why Marin is a skater that resonates so much with a lot of us. She doesn't look scared. She thrives and glows and she enjoys what she's doing. That's a confidence in the limelight that only very few skaters posess at that age.

It is not about that. Everyone is entitled to do whatever they want. Pink and sparkles can be great as long as they come purely from heart and/or for a deeper reason than just to look pretty; just like black can be stupid if it is done with no reason. What I personally appreciate in anyone whether it is a skater, an artist, etc. is when something is made sincerely for more personal reason than just to be liked by the majority of averagely-minded (by minded I mean not intelectually but in terms of taste/preference) people. I much prefer a rough or weird individuality than a standard polisheness, which is exeplified by Marin: in her skating, in her choice of music, in her looks, in the image of her that seems to be presented in media. To follow the cliche, the path, under which you know the majority will 100% like you, just because this is a standard of a "class" (what a racist stupid word) is boring and much easier than to develop yourself as a human and trying to reach the understanding/realization of who you are and why do you do what you do, and therefore, I appreciate it less. I guess it is normal among juniors as they are still kids, but then I don't understand all that fan hype. For example, I prefer Wakaba much more, whether she cries, or has menstrual blood accident; how she can have amazing skates or not good ones; with her strong Asian full legs and beautiful face (not trying to be a western-type "model"); character and already recognizable skating style.

Something similar but in less degree than to Marin I feel towards Radionova with her never-fading smile and I used to feel towards Gracie. Gracie then changed, but unfortunately, being a mature human made her not only more interesting but also less consistent. Hopefully she regains and we will see an interesting personality. Similar situation with Radionova.

"Pretty" is not "beautiful"; never was never will be, although people apply it all the time with the context of the second.

 

[Lipea]

Isn't it ridiculous how much more fans someone like Marin has, versus Satoko, Rika, Wakaba, Mai, - which in all cases cannot be justified by anything except that she is the one who is considered by them being "pretty" versus the others - not? How easily brainwashed you are, peoples.

 

[solani]

I wouldn't have bothered commenting too much, but when the scoring has shown to be slanted as seen in the unprecedented score hikes for the Russians Jrs like Evgenia since her 1st year debut, and now 14 years old Alina who has just scored 70 (70!!) in a junior program, the sport has shown it is full of the double standard and hypocrisy. So Jun Hwan Cha should not earn high PCS due to his lack of experience, but 14 years old mechanical Alina (movements for movement's sake with little purpose or awareness) ought to get a better score than Evgenia has ever received as a junior, while Marin Like Hwan who is obvious to all (with attention to detail to choreography and musicality) did not receive higher PCS difference to the rest of the field, be robbed of their chance because of another slanted panel - how convenient. Doesn't the score all feel a bit artificial to you?

The make up of panel need to be evaluated to minimize subjective judging, avoid cultural and geographical biases even when judges are trying to mark honestly and in good faith. There are inherent biases, they are human.

A world championship is a global event, and its judges should be represented globally to ensure a level playing field for all.

If ISU continues NOT able to find any other judges apart from Europeans at ladies global event, and that only the Europeans continues to get generous marks, then ISU is clearly taking the p*ss and has completely failed as a sport governing body. Or frankly, there's something funny going by those in charge - how convenient.

You know that I don't care much about points, I care about the ranking and although I would have Marin above Alina I don't think that the result is totally unjustified. Alina is unrefined but she has qualities and if she's able to keep her jumps and also able to defy the intense competition in Russia she could become a very decent skater imo. I know, judging isn't based on potential but her team is hiding her shortcomings quite well with overly busy programs.

But why do you blame the ISU for the fact that the federations don't try to have more judges? I just looked it up - they have examinations every year. Last year's communication: http://static.isu.org/media/344184/2020_sp-and-id_isu-judges-examinations-2016.pdf
Why do the Asian countries don't work together on that if there really is a problem? We know that born Russians are judging for other Eastern European countries f.e.. Chinese Taipeh has one ISU judge for singles and pairs, Chinese has seven - I'm sure China could give Chinese Taipeh one or two judges if someone deemed that to be necessary. You get my point? And yes, probably Russia was smart to fill judging posts of Eastern European countries with Russian judges but they already did that years ago. The other countries could have backlashed already. That's not the fault of the ISU if the non-European countries don't consider this to be a problem and do something about it. Because it would be easy to do something about it.