Eteri Tutberidze interview 05.05.2017

[ewdokia]

You mean like him winning the next 3 Russian national titles, making the GPF twice (including 2 GP golds - the only Russian man since Plushenko to do that), and a 4th at Worlds in his first full senior season? :sarcasm:

Yes, like him, cause up to my knowledge RF does not choose its team members using a crystal ball showing them future medals.

And regarding your list with the results: you can’t compare junior and senior results. In particular when one skater is competing in Juniors with full backing of his fed (and actually juniors were not that strong this year), while the other skater is competing against calibers like Hanyu and his Fed is not supporting him at all. But that’s beating a dead horse and I don’t blame Maxim Kovtun for only placing 17th at worlds and not achieving a 2nd spot for Russia. I could have been expected when sending an completely unexperienced teenager. I blame those clever fed officials and his former coach.

You consider Maxim almost as an ex skater already when his situation is very similar to Gracie Gold in US: very successful skater at Nationals, some medals earned at GP or other competitions, big push from the federation but always disappointing at the major events (GPF and Worlds).

I don’t consider him an ex, but as a skater who has never learned to withstand pressure when it counts. Partly this can be attributed to the fact that he could not learn it gradually, but was pressed to the senior circuit with not being mentally ready for it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Again, I'm not sure how 3 National titles, 3 Euros medals, and 2 GP golds, and a 4th at Worlds isn't withstanding pressure.

Maybe you just have higher standards, in which case, pretty much all of the most recent senior Russian men have not met your standards of handling pressure.

 

[silverfoxes]

Can the off-topic Kovtun fanboy crap be removed from this thread? I feel like it's been posted 100 times before and it's not even remotely relevant here.

 

[moriel]

Can the off-topic Kovtun fanboy crap be removed from this thread? I feel like it's been posted 100 times before and it's not even remotely relevant here.

I feel that maybe this thread closed alltogether?
I fear where we can get since its off season and we got nothing better to do hehe

 

[Tutto]

Well, it a matter of personal interpretation. For me it shows that her team cares about their skaters including their personal issues and including their families. You know that they don't take only promising skaters. She could have taken many foreign students instead... I don't see how in the USA or in Canada any skater will be given the same approach if they don't have any money. I think her team in general is very demanding but it doesn't have anyhting to do with skaters background. It's simply because in Russia this field is so competitive. I remember that Evgenia skated injured several times and that was her decision because if you're out of competitions than no one in federation will care about you. In Russia you have a line of young and promising skaters each year and every single one of them is aiming for international competitions. We can talk here for ages but nothing will change the situation because well we are fans of very cruel and dangerous sport...

Again, I personally prefer Brian's approach. But I don't think it's right to compare them. ld rather find any example of russian coach with personal approach and compare him/her to Eteri.

Well lets not make a Mother Theresa out of Eteri only because her students do not pay her directly. She is paid all the same from Sambo and from the Fed. Where do you get an idea that she accepts 'not only promising'? Of course she takes only THE most promising (and for that she can't be blamed).
Also the kids from really poor families don't get into FS, because contrary to a popular belief the state does not pay for everything it is only when you get to a certain level the funding starts, at the beginning the parents pay for everything - lessons, ice time, skates, costumes etc.
Eteri complains that students do not work hard enough because ice time is free -had they have to pay for it they would appreciate it more - fair enough it could be true, but the similar argument can be made that if she charged their students (parents) directly she would have cared more about their health & keeping them injury free like Orser does? And probably would not dare to call them 'materials'...

Re other Russian coaches - practically all Russian coaches I can think of have a more personal caring approach to their skaters - Mishin, Moskvina, Mozer, Buianova, Goncharenko. E.g Chebotareva coached Kolyada since he was 5 and like a second mother to him, when he had a back problem due to over training of 4lz recently, he withdrew from Russian Cup Final, received treatment and didnt do any quads for a month. He seemed (touch wood!) okay at Worlds and even better at WTT, so there is a lot to be said for a prompt action. I remember reading Sasha Cohen's bio where she said that she early on in her career learnt from her own experience and even more importantly from unfortunate experiences of other skaters that the only way to deal with injuries is to deal with them at once.

Yes, it's and understandable that skaters at an important competition do not want to withdraw unless they absolutely cannot skate. That's different from someone who has an ongoing injury that isn't treated properly or given time to heal, and potentially made worse in the process. Back injuries in particular are nothing to fool around with - just ask Plushy.

Interestingly, it was a back injury which ended Eteri's career as a single skater, she received a treatment for 3 months and moved to ice dance, instead of jumping quads - surprise, surprise...

I personally would not openly tell same harsh things as she told about Pitkeev. But I don't blame her for it if she said what she believed was true, if she was annoyed with his attitude so that she still cannot contain it. We don't know what happened between them. May be it was just the way she described. If she invested in him and received 0 on her investment even minus. Then forgive me if I am wrong, but has not Adian retired? Then her revelations will hardly damage his skating career. On the contrary, those who hate Eteri may take him eagerly on board. But I think he decided to pass on it.

I don't see any mean unethical agenda behind her words. She has had difficult life. No success as a skater. No success as a coach in the US. Then coming back and no offers at first. Big tensions with the Fed. Then the break with her star student. She has finally capitalized on her efforts this year. And decided that now she can say whatever she thinks. May be not the smartest thing to do in the Russian political FS environment. At least what she said was not as ugly as those rumors about her and Buyanova and many other nasty things people already said and keep saying about her - the best ladies coach in the world at this moment.

So had Adian retired it would make it okay? If he continues at least he will get a chance to prove that he is not a hysterical lazy kid with attitude. But if not his good name, his reputation stained forever.
I read Eteri' life story, like everyone else she had ups and downs, I would not call hers a particularly difficult life - a pretty average of her generation who were caught up in 'perestroika', many had it worse but don't feel bitter or revengeful.

But talking about a bash list regarding quads with youngsters: I’d put ISU on my bash list here. I think they need to do something, either not allowing quads at Juniors or at least limit their amount or bring back figures for Juniors (as a result kids would have less time to practice jumps, as they would also need some time to practice figures). I they will not take care of it now, no longer then ten years and only few skaters will even make it to seniors. I don’t want to watch a sport, where most kids end up crippled.

What a brilliant idea - you should start a thread on that!

 

[moriel]

Eteri complains that students do not work hard enough because ice time is free -had they have to pay for it they would appreciate it more - fair enough it could be true, but the similar argument can be made that if she charged their students (parents) directly she would have cared more about their health & keeping them injury free like Orser does?

Stuff like letting Stephen Gogolev train quads (and he is younger than Eteri´s girls), or letting Hanyu skate obviously injured (His CoC accident left no doubt that Hanyu should not be allowed to skate at that event, even if Hanyu himself thought he was ok at the time. Well, Hanyu wasnt a kid then, so coach couldnt have forbidden, but surely it could be explained well enough for a reasonable young man to understand that concussions are not fun and sometimes you feel ok at first, but you still arent)?
I wouldnt really say those 2 are opposites.

 

[Ares]

Sergei’s take on how his ways with Eteri parted:
http://fs-gossips.com/sergei-voronov-i-earn-my-place-on-the-ice-by-my-own-work/

Excerpt:
“On the other hand, I fully admit that if everything had been fine in relationships with a coach at that time, the work on the program could have gone differently. I clearly felt that the attitude of Eteri Georgievna (Tutberidze) to me have changed and tried hard to clarify the situation. It is understandable that any conflict – it is a problem on both sides, and it would be foolish to blame only coach in all troubles. Therefore, several times directly asked the question: what happened? I am no longer interesting as an athlete? In response I heard the same phrase: “Such thoughts are devastating for an athlete.”

And one personal observation on the “jealous mama boy”: last year in Bratislava Sergei competed without coach and told us, that he was not funded for that competition. So he had to pay everything – hotel, start money, etc. - on his own and couldn’t afford to pay for his coach as well. Maxim Kovtun on the other hand seemed to have sufficient funding, as he went to challenger with coach. So if Sergej would be such a jealous brat with such a situation you might wonder he and Max seem to get around pretty well. Maybe it's attributable to the coach paying sufficient attention to both skaters? :yes2:

You meant not paying sufficient attention rather? Or sarcasm?

 

[[email protected]]

Stuff like letting Stephen Gogolev train quads (and he is younger than Eteri´s girls), or letting Hanyu skate obviously injured (His CoC accident left no doubt that Hanyu should not be allowed to skate at that event, even if Hanyu himself thought he was ok at the time. Well, Hanyu wasnt a kid then, so coach couldnt have forbidden, but surely it could be explained well enough for a reasonable young man to understand that concussions are not fun and sometimes you feel ok at first, but you still arent)?
I wouldnt really say those 2 are opposites.

It is very possible that many things similar or even harsher than Pitkeev's case have happened in the FS world. The only Eteri's guilt is that she speaks openly about things that other keep in the darkest closet. And she makes some personal remarks on her former skaters which are not nice but which have no court perspective as libel or discrediting. No one publicly accused Eteri of the intentional injuring Adian or anybody else from her team. Again, I do not approve her words about Pitkeev and Voronov but that's her choice same as there was the choice of those like Vaitsekhovskaya who have alredy poured loads of media dirt on Eteri. As we already said here, it's sad but FS is a cruel sport. Edmuds is just getting back after the injury. Sotnikova just got another injury, etc. Singling out Eteri serves mostly to the purpose of diminishing her success. Which is enormous but which is of little interest to many of those who keep posting here - we are on the 4th hundred of posts now.

 

[plushyfan]

It is very possible that many things similar or even harsher than Pitkeev's case have happened in the FS world. The only Eteri's guilt is that she speaks openly about things that other keep in the darkest closet. And she makes some personal remarks on her former skaters which are not nice but which have no court perspective as libel or discrediting. No one publicly accused Eteri of the intentional injuring Adian or anybody else from her team. Again, I do not approve her words about Pitkeev and Voronov but that's her choice same as there was the choice of those like Vaitsekhovskaya who have alredy poured loads of media dirt on Eteri. As we already said here, it's sad but FS is a cruel sport. Edmuds is just getting back after the injury. Sotnikova just got another injury, etc. Singling out Eteri serves mostly to the purpose of diminishing her success. Which is enormous but which is of little interest to many of those who keep posting here - we are on the 4th hundred of posts now.

Vaitsekhovskaya is doing that with somebody very offen. Vaits's favorite is Tat and her team.

 

[silverfoxes]

I hope that Adian will someday give an equally honest and non-politically correct interview about his experiences with Eteri.

 

[ewdokia]

Stuff like letting Stephen Gogolev train quads (and he is younger than Eteri´s girls), or letting Hanyu skate obviously injured (His CoC accident left no doubt that Hanyu should not be allowed to skate at that event, even if Hanyu himself thought he was ok at the time. Well, Hanyu wasnt a kid then, so coach couldnt have forbidden, but surely it could be explained well enough for a reasonable young man to understand that concussions are not fun and sometimes you feel ok at first, but you still arent)? .

I wouldn’t really say those two are opposites. I’m not happy about youngsters training quads anyways, but there is a difference to have a young skater training quads but once he gets injured by doing risky jumps you let him heal or like Eteri having that skater continuing to skate with that injury till it might be career ending. Do you think if any underage skater of Orser would develop let’s say a stress fracture, he would pressure him to keep on competing with injury till the kid simply can’t go on any longer physically and mentally and then move on to the next?

Same with Hanyu - there is a big difference between an adult skater competing at Worlds, the most important event of the season, as a gold medal contender with an injury and afterwards taking enough time of to heal it so the skater can come back successfully next season. If I recall it right, Hanyu was even in a cast for a couple of week and took a long time to heal his foot. What did Eteri? Forced her injured skater to skate competition after competition with an injured back, as important events as Challengers. No wonder Ilia Skirda is now scared to do quads – he’s seen what happens once you get injured with that coach. And Eteri blames his parents for not encouraging him enough.

 

[ewdokia]

You meant not paying sufficient attention rather? Or sarcasm?

No, I meant it like I said: a coach paying sufficient attention to both skaters, as I was referring to Ina Gontcharenko and not Eteri here.

But I can see how Sergei got upset with training together with Adian and when he noticed Eteri hired him mostly as a sparring partner: when there was a lot of talk that Russian Fed would send Adian to Worlds in case he competed well at JW. They sure beforehand talked to Eteri about it and so this deal go public, she obviously agreed to it. Gives you by the way an even a better impression about Eteri and handling injuries: apparently she was even well prepared to pressure Adian to skate at worlds shortly after JW. I can imagine that Sergej was totally pissed off, as he earned that spot beating Adian in both competition they skated against each other. If I were Sergej, I’d left Eteri right that moment or after Worlds at the latest.

 

[plushyfan]

I hope that Adian will someday give an equally honest and non-politically correct interview about his experiences with Eteri.

I would like to read that interview! :agree:

 

[ewdokia]

It is very possible that many things similar or even harsher than Pitkeev's case have happened in the FS world. The only Eteri's guilt is that she speaks openly about things that other keep in the darkest closet.

Well, at elite level I don’t remember any case in recent years where a coach had a that negligent way to treat his underage skater, leaving Pavolova (Antipova) aside. But if in your opinion Eteri’s only guilt is “honesty” when talking about it, I see why you like her: you seem to share the same ethics. I wish I had a puke icon to insert here.

No one publicly accused Eteri of the intentional injuring Adian or anybody else from her team. Again, I do not approve her words about Pitkeev and Voronov but that's her choice same as there was the choice of those like Vaitsekhovskaya who have alredy poured loads of media dirt on Eteri.

Well, in my country she might have well ended at court if Adian’s parents sued her. Hurting someone by negligence (no only by doing things, but by not doing things) is actually a crime in many European countries. Adding that pressuring Adian mentally to move on would just be another crime in some jurisdictions. Vaitsehovskaya sure doesn’t like Eteri (probably partly due to her insights on how Eteri is dealing with her skaters' health) and her comments regarding the health of Eteri's skaters up to know always turned out to be true. :roll5:

Edmuds is just getting back after the injury.

Edmunds is right the wrong example to defend Eteri. She could cure her injury. You still don’t get the difference between getting injured and getting injured and not being allowed to cure an injury? But don’t bother, Eteri doesn’t get it either. However, that’s why Polina can continue to skate which in Adian’s case is apparently very much in question.

 

[moriel]

I wouldn’t really say those two are opposites. I’m not happy about youngsters training quads anyways, but there is a difference to have a young skater training quads but once he gets injured by doing risky jumps you let him heal or like Eteri having that skater continuing to skate with that injury till it might be career ending. Do you think if any underage skater of Orser would develop let’s say a stress fracture, he would pressure him to keep on competing with injury till the kid simply can’t go on any longer physically and mentally and then move on to the next?

Same with Hanyu - there is a big difference between an adult skater competing at Worlds, the most important event of the season, as a gold medal contender with an injury and afterwards taking enough time of to heal it so the skater can come back successfully next season. If I recall it right, Hanyu was even in a cast for a couple of week and took a long time to heal his foot. What did Eteri? Forced her injured skater to skate competition after competition with an injured back, as important events as Challengers. No wonder Ilia Skirda is now scared to do quads – he’s seen what happens once you get injured with that coach. And Eteri blames his parents for not encouraging him enough.

I didnt hear Stephen Gogolev was seriously injured and needed a huge break to heal Poor kid, hope that was not because of the quads.
If thats true though, he didnt stop competing over last 3 seasons. When did it happen?

Ummm, Hanyu and CoC had nothing to do with worlds. He was clearly not able to compete and he still competed.
Yes he medaled, but that was like the most controversial medal ever with 5 falls.
The only thing on stake was him going to GPF.

As for Skirda, that sucks. You got some reference for that?

 

[silverfoxes]

A pic from JW 2015, and Serafima's comment: [email protected] аккуратнее!! Спина ведь болит Careful! His back hurts


https://www.instagram.com/p/z5NEDZFgLR/

He was clutching his back after he skated and then the very next weekend after JW, he competed again at the Spartakiad! How important could that have been?

 

[ewdokia]

I hope that Adian will someday give an equally honest and non-politically correct interview about his experiences with Eteri.

Adian as well as Julia and Sergei are just too much of class acts to give “equally honest” interviews. People who followed their careers closely, know anyways what happened. For many people still defending Eteri they’ll be only “worn out material” anways. But some people you just don’t need to please. Adian by the way meanwhile deleted his comment on his ask.

With Julia I wish she will one time write her biography and give some insights. I think her biography might be very helpful, not only for young skaters, but also parents of young athletes.

Vaitsekhovskaya is doing that with somebody very offen. Vaits's favorite is Tat and her team.

Tue, but she didn’t lie about the health of Eteri’s skaters, with that interview the opposite can be said about Eteri when she wants people to believe Adian was just lazy and moody.

I didnt hear Stephen Gogolev was seriously injured and needed a huge break to heal Poor kid, hope that was not because of the quads.
If thats true though, he didnt stop competing over last 3 seasons. When did it happen?

I was talking about a hypothetical skater and if Orser would have forced him to compete with injury. Gogolev isn’t injured.

As for Skirda, that sucks. You got some reference for that?

Eteri’s interview! Demanding more support from his parents, while she is calling him female names when he doesn’t do a quad.

Here is the relevant excerpt on Ilia from the translation:
"He is going through a hard time now. He has to overcome and start jumping. Overcome. To work hard. And his family has to support him. Not just with the words `we love you, go skate'. It's not enough. Perhaps be stricter with him. We see it when the skater comes on the ice with the wrong mood, not concentrated, when, he should be shouted at for a bad practice. It's a daily work. Shouting and proving something all the time is very tiring. And we have to do it every day. Till the result comes. We all need it, so it's not only the coach who should work towards, but the parents as well.
For me as long as the guys are not landing the men jumps they are in the ladies skating. Sometimes I insult them and call them with the girls names. As a joke. But so they understand why.
Yes, they will have to fall. The risk of the injury is huge. They should have a fear. If we didn't have a fear why would we use a lift? We would just jump out of a window. But you have to overcome the fear.
It does not mean we are not afraid for him. Even more so. But you can't avoid overcoming, hence am stressing the family support again. Recall how you were as a teenager - we all had to go through something difficult, but mom and dad were near, so it was not so scary!"

 

[ewdokia]

A pic from JW 2015, and Serafima's comment: [email protected] аккуратнее!! Спина ведь болит Careful! His back hurts


https://www.instagram.com/p/z5NEDZFgLR/

He was clutching his back after he skated and then the very next weekend after JW, he competed again at the Spartakiad! How important could that have been?

Very important! This competition is decisive on funding for the regions/clubs in Russia. So the show must go on. Who cares about a sore back, when the skater brings money?
And then Laizhev and Eteri are whining how much they invested in the skater, who as a junior / senior team member had been basically self-funding since age 14. :angry2:

And Adian was actually holding his back not only at the end of his program at JW, but already in the warm up of both competition parts.

 

[moriel]

Adian as well as Julia and Sergei are just too much of class acts to give “equally honest” interviews. People who followed their careers closely, know anyways what happened. For many people still defending Eteri they’ll be only “worn out material” anways. But some people you just don’t need to please. Adian by the way meanwhile deleted his comment on his ask.

With Julia I wish she will one time write her biography and give some insights. I think her biography might be very helpful, not only for young skaters, but also parents of young athletes.



Tue, but she didn’t lie about the health of Eteri’s skaters, with that interview the opposite can be said about Eteri when she wants people to believe Adian was just lazy and moody.



I was talking about a hypothetical skater and if Orser would have forced him to compete with injury. Gogolev isn’t injured.



Eteri’s interview! Demanding more support from his parents, while she is calling him female names when he doesn’t do a quad.

Here is the relevant excerpt on Ilia from the translation:
"He is going through a hard time now. He has to overcome and start jumping. Overcome. To work hard. And his family has to support him. Not just with the words `we love you, go skate'. It's not enough. Perhaps be stricter with him. We see it when the skater comes on the ice with the wrong mood, not concentrated, when, he should be shouted at for a bad practice. It's a daily work. Shouting and proving something all the time is very tiring. And we have to do it every day. Till the result comes. We all need it, so it's not only the coach who should work towards, but the parents as well.
For me as long as the guys are not landing the men jumps they are in the ladies skating. Sometimes I insult them and call them with the girls names. As a joke. But so they understand why.
Yes, they will have to fall. The risk of the injury is huge. They should have a fear. If we didn't have a fear why would we use a lift? We would just jump out of a window. But you have to overcome the fear.
It does not mean we are not afraid for him. Even more so. But you can't avoid overcoming, hence am stressing the family support again. Recall how you were as a teenager - we all had to go through something difficult, but mom and dad were near, so it was not so scary!"

I was talking about young kids being allowed to do quads, not about competing injured, when i mentioned Gogolev (as many people were bashing Eteri for allowing Anna and Alexandra to train quads).

As for Eteri's interview, at any point its said that Skirda is scared of doing quads. Also, at no point Eteri blames anything on his parents.
All she says is (dunno about translation, im reading the russian version):
- its a very hard period for him, and he needs his family support too (she doesnt say they dont support him, she just says he needs it).
- there is risk of injury, and the skater will fall while learning quads.
- its natural a person is afraid ("else people would jump out of windows instead of taking an elevator)
- one needs to overcome this fear.
- they (eteri´s team) also fear for him.
- but one still has to overcome those fears to jump quads, and this is why support from family is so important.

At no point i see her saying Skirda is scared of jumping quads. More like she stresses the natural fear people have of harder elements - btw, same thing was mentioned by Mishin in his interviews too, when he said that its highly improbably to learn new hard elements (3A for ladies) as adults.
(I also think a skater commented at some point that its easier to learn hard elements when you are a kid, because you are recless, and when you grow up, you see the potential danger and mentally block yourself from trying. Not sure of this one, but makes all sense to me).

She doesnt blame his parent for not supporting him either - she just stresses, in very general way, how important is family support when a kid is learning hard elements.

 

[ewdokia]

....At no point i see her saying Skirda is scared of jumping quads. ....

The paragraph before the one on Ilia is about fear doing quads (I can’t of course dopy the whole interview), next thing is Eteri mentioning he has to overcome. One should be able to read things in context. And she demands more support from his parents, being more strict. And she calls the boy female names when he doesn’t jump quads – what else do you need? This is just humiliating an underage boy in front of his training group. :roll9:

Beside what you do not understand from “need to overcome fear” – if you need to overcome it, you have fear. It’s as simple as that. And possibly Ilia or any other skaters in Eteri’s group would have less fear, if they had not seen how injuries are dealt with in Eteri's group. And not just Adian. Luckily Eteri’s skaters are quite talkative on social media, you get an overall impression how she is dealing with it. :reye: