2017 GPF Short Dance

[Alba]

Shibs are a pretty, damn cute couple to watch. The only couple who can get away skating to Coldplay over and over again. Enough said. They have worked hard and they have been consistent. I say, they deserve everything they are getting.

Many people have this weird attitude towards skaters who goes up on top. As long as they're underdogs, people think they are great skaters and they whine because of underscoring. Once they go on top, the same starts screaminng "overscored"! Fickle.

 

[rosy14]

Europe has been practically salivating to get the Dance Gold back for the last two Olympics. So I'm not surprised.

NOT europe, FRANCE.

 

[rosy14]

i prefer to concentrate on the performance and not the scores. Too many times the scores made little sense to me. I am happy that p/c are able to hold their nerves so well and that the competition for the gold medal is that exciting . They closed the gap with v/m, and look even stronger than them this season so far. The battle for the oly gold is still open remember 2009-2010 gpf? Tessa and scott were second to meryl and charlie. And things turned around when the olympic games. Unlike 2014 when the judges were not going to let d/w lose the gold medal, i think this time the competition is way more open, just like in 2010. We all know the top 2 couples, we don't know the order

we don’t know the order ? Looooollllll!!!!!

 

[TMC]

I think those who think the Shibs were overscored just aren't used to the idea of the Shibs scoring that well. IMO, their improvements since even last season is quite noticeable, their SD is well-choreographed and highlights their strengths, they increased the amount of dance, and yet haven't sacrificed their clear strengths which a mix of excellent skating skills with polish, finish, and cleanliness in everything that they do (head to toe). It's quite noticeable when you actively watch them and compare how they execute everything, especially crossovers, turns, steps, etc. with the other bronze medal contenders (and IMO even some gold medal contenders). IMO, their SD was not overscored because their performance was only worse than their performance at Skate America and with a clean, inspired skate with all levels hit and with a performance quality taken up just a bit, this SD is worthy of being 81+.

Yup - but for me it's not that the 78 was too much, but that it was too much in comparison with their performance at SA (in my opinion). If today's skate was 78, then the SD at SA should have been 81 for sure. I feel like there was more than a point's difference there. FWIW I thought that the SA SD was worth 82

 

[Silvia451]

Imo the Shibs are better than H/D any day. I'm ok with the "overscoring".

 

[Mirunna]

we don’t know the order ? Looooollllll!!!!!

You do realise P/C and V/M are virtually tied on PCS and had the same bsae value? The difference of 0.5 could have gone either way. Plus V/M pattern looked less sharp today and they got less GOE than the Shibs on that element.
Unlike last season when V/M had a big cushion over P/C regardless, this season the scores are much more closer and can go either way. A lost level, a less sharp movement, a slight misstep and the order will change.
But I know, it is so much fun to go with the conspiracy theories that evil Europe sold its old soul to the devil for the gold medal in ice dance.

 

[rosy14]

It seems to me that a good part of the technical panel and judges are the same as in China (first WR for P/C).
Is that so, or am I mistaken ?

 

[Mrs. P]

Yup - but for me it's not that the 78 was too much, but that it was too much in comparison with their performance at SA (in my opinion). If today's skate was 78, then the SD at SA should have been 81 for sure. I feel like there was more than a point's difference there. FWIW I thought that the SA SD was worth 82

Keep in mind they were dealing with Dostani. And their GOE and PCS was lower here for the most part.

 

[bramweld]

It seems to me you really cannot compare scores across panels. The Shibs score at SA indicated that they were that, that much better than second and third at that competition. They were today a little less impressive than V/M and P/C hence their scores today. But in terms of the rest of the field, they were all shaking in their boots today so the scores are completely understandable.

 

[rosy14]

You do realise P/C and V/M are virtually tied on PCS and had the same bsae value? The difference of 0.5 could have gone either way. Plus V/M pattern looked less sharp today and they got less GOE than the Shibs on that element.
Unlike last season when V/M had a big cushion over P/C regardless, this season the scores are much more closer and can go either way. A lost level, a less sharp movement, a slight misstep and the order will change.
But I know, it is so much fun to go with the conspiracy theories that evil Europe sold its old soul to the devil for the gold medal in ice dance.[/QUOTE

Every and each commenter, expert, journalist, fan here and there, keeps repeating that judges have clearly shown their preference for P/C in light of the Olympics. So perhaps you’re the only one who believes the order is not already set.
By the way I don’t think in terms of “Europe”, but in terms of a group of countries doing this or that, yes.

 

[Alba]

Seriously though, are we really discussing Shib's scores now? Compared with who, H&D....C&L? Give me a break!
They're much better. Period.

 

[TMC]

Seriously though, are we really discussing Shib's scores now? Compared with who, H&D....C&L? Give me a break!
They're much better. Period.

Oh I agree, for sure

 

[Chantilly]

If anything, I'm a bit relieved by the scores regarding V and M vs P and C. It shows that the judges see them as equals. Haven't seen the performances yet, not aired yet for me, missed the stream.
I expected v and M only slightly ahead vs way ahead like last year.
I'm not ready to totally give up on V and M winning gold, though I expect they won't, until I see what happens in the FD.
Regardless I've already resigned myself to the possibility of them not winning gold. I just want to enjoy the journey and hope that the judging is fair.
So far I can't argue it hasn't been.

 

[peepsquick]

"Every and each commenter, expert, journalist, fan here and there, keeps repeating that judges have clearly shown their preference for P/C in light of the Olympics."

Could it be, that they were just better this year? This is the first time P/C won the SD over V/M and even to my untrained eyes, they really were. V/M's SD was best at the Canadian Championships. They seemed to have a weaker performance after that. I think that the judges did a good job. You might still prefer V/M but nobody is out to get them. It is actually insulting to a great team like V/M to always go for a conspiracy theory when they happen to lose. Losing happens to the best! you do a disservice to your team, IMO.

 

[Barb]

Maia and Alex were great, the only visible mistake were the twizzles (by the way, no couple was perfect with their twizzles but I think the best twizzles of the night were those of C/L, of course they only got 7.97 hwell. Too bad about the timing problem in the rhumba pattern from the Shibs, but what a good news they getting level 4 for partial step seq and especially for the no touch step seq, because I was lamenting that they eliminated that nice part of the step seq https://youtu.be/aREBn2rFtN4?t=182 for nothing, finally it pays off. And they got standing ovation, very well deserved.

And finally C/B got level 4 for their rhumba pattern, good for them. But yes, I wonder what is happening to them, who knows, love is distracting, they were getting better results when Madison ignored him.

 

[Nocturne]

Shocked to see P/C won the SD. I haven't watched the GPF performances of the SDs yet, but I'm not huge fans of any of them. They both do sort of unique takes on Latin, but I just don't buy either 100% (though I'm sure the GPF ones are better than the last ones I've seen).

P/C have the momentum - it's going to be really, really tough to stop them. V/M needed a showstopper of a program this season, and while I'm a sucker for Moulin Rouge melodrama and melodrama in general, their program just doesn't tell enough story for me to really love it. Marie-France didn't want them to do it, and I keep wondering what she would've given them instead. I feel like, if they had given her free reign, she would've created the Tessa/Scott version of "To Build a Home" - something totally iconic and special and totally them, with unique, resonating music selections and choreography that showcases their earthy, sexy quality and tells a story that the audience can connect with. I think Latch was a stepping stone to that last season - a lot of people didn't like the music, but I felt it showcased their strengths so, so well (incredible earthiness, which probably doesn't make sense ) especially in opposition to P/C, who are ethereal.

Moulin Rouge has some special moments, but it's so obviously theatrical, whereas Moonlight Sonata is otherworldly and sublime. Rather than theatrical, V/M would've been better off going with something that feels raw and with authentic (as opposed to theatrical) human feeling. "High art" like Moonlight Sonata, but that appeals to a totally different type of human and artistic sensibility.

I really liked the British commentators for saying "In the end, dance ist subjective" because that is simply true.

I feel the complete opposite than you regarding the top two's programs. To me, Tessa and Scott's MR is awesome! I love the "theatricallity" (is that a word? xD) and the story sure is enough for me. Drama and sexiness in the beginning, the true feelings for each other in the middle and in the end she dies. Tragic. What's not to love about it?
But I'm honestly curious to what you feel is missing from the movie and should have been included? Could you tell me?

P/C on the other hand feel boring to me this season. Moonlight sonata is great and I like it but so are their FD's of the last 3 years as well and they all feel more or less the same to me. But to each their own.

Regarding the short dance, I cant comprehend how P/C beat sexy passionate V/M with that stupid Ed Sheeran mix of songs and looking cute and playful. It's a fun program, but if the task is latin I'd go for Sex and Passion anyday.

 

[labgoat]

Anna/Luca seemed cautious... but it's just so fun watching them skate ! Performance quality +10GOEs

I agree, great energy and face. There are times when Anna is waiting with arms outstretched like a statue waiting for Luca to finish a turn. It seems the moves should be more blended. It makes them look out of sync at times. They also seem to aim their expressions at the audience and the judges and seldom towards each other. But great energy.

 

[peepsquick]

I really liked the British commentators for saying "In the end, dance ist subjective" because that is simply true.

I feel the complete opposite than you regarding the top two's programs. To me, Tessa and Scott's MR is awesome! I love the "theatricallity" (is that a word? xD) and the story sure is enough for me. Drama and sexiness in the beginning, the true feelings for each other in the middle and in the end she dies. Tragic. What's not to love about it?
But I'm honestly curious to what you feel is missing from the movie and should have been included? Could you tell me?

P/C on the other hand feel boring to me this season. Moonlight sonata is great and I like it but so are their FD's of the last 3 years as well and they all feel more or less the same to me. But to each their own.

Regarding the short dance, I cant comprehend how P/C beat sexy passionate V/M with that stupid Ed Sheeran mix of songs and looking cute and playful. It's a fun program, but if the task is latin I'd go for Sex and Passion anyday.

Cliche Latin for sure! From what you say, it's is totally subjective and has more to do with your personal taste than the strength of the actual skate for both teams.

 

[IceDancingQueen]

You know, when people talk about Europe you have to differenciate : The "eastern block" that you saw in the past for example. It's much harder to cheat today. If P/C had to go all politics, they'll have to count on their coaches... Which are the same as V/M.
Those teams just put the best out on the Ice and it shows.

Now talking about perofrmance, V/M had a WR in Canada, I don't call that "not rewarding". Last year P/C skated ONE clean SD only. They choked everytime they went against V/M. The difference today was just incredible, they looked focused.

Also, a 81+ score for V/M for a clearly not as good SD as before is very rewarding. Read the score sheet : ALL the judges (including the Canadian one) gave a +2 for the pattern. Which means they saw something we didn't.
The advantage V/M had against D/W before : long sweeping edges, flowing elements... They don't have that anymore against P/C. Those teams match WAY more on TES and PCS.
And V/M haven't skated clean all GP actually, I mean it wasn't something huge (except that twizzle stumble but even that wasn't sooo bad), but they made mistake where P/C used to make them last year : on the big elements like step sequences. It's not just GOEs down, it's a whole level which mean a whole 1.5 point down. It's massive.

Today, P/C were just MUCH cleaner on their elements, I think that's a no brainer. They have a "0.20" advantage in PCS, which translates in NOTHING if you take one component at a time (a difference of 0.02 to 0.05 only !).

A 0.5 point difference is still nothing at this point and it could go either way.

I might get hate for this but let's face it : some people (Not you IceDancingQueen, and I hope not) are trying to find excuses, the same way some people in the Canadian media are. Or maybe some people are watching too much of those media and in that case are getting the wrong info. Sometimes, when everyone is good, someone is just better. It doesn't have to be Tessa&Scott all the time. It actually wasn't them TODAY (They have been MUCH cleaner). I get that they are described as the best (because they are surely one of the best ID EVER), but if they got a WR with that skate today, now that would have been weird.
Sometimes you have to look at the scoring paper.
(Sorry for the rant but some twitter comments are annoying).

Haha no I'm not trying to make excuses. While I know Tessa and Scott have skated the SD cleaner before, I still did not think the P&C's SD was better (this could be because I really just don't like this SD on them. I actually preferred their blues and swing one last year, in spite of the mistakes they made). But I hadn't seen the break down of scores, so you are right, the judges must have seen something that I didn't. But I still do hold that the WR scores they got earlier in the season just seem crazy to me. Yes they were good, but I to me it wasn't brilliance like they have done in the past. But hey ho, I am just a spectator and not a judge so what do I know?!

In regards to your comment about Europe/Eastern Bloc - it wasn't just the Eastern Bloc - in 2002 the French and Russian judges traded votes for their respective Ice Dance and Pairs team and two pairs couples ended up sharing the gold medal because the French judge admitted she had been pressured to give her vote to Russia in exchange for Russia's vote for A&P in Ice Dance. So France has been known to collude with other judges!

 

[labgoat]

Well I think it's fascinating how H/D have managed to do an entire Latin program and have almost no melody in it (if you consider the percentage of the program with a genuine melody). Really, just fascinating.

When I first heard the music, I was wowed. Now the lack of melody is beginning to fall a bit flat for me and does not allow for much expression which I feel is one of their strengths. I get that they are emphasizing the technical skills, but I want a bit more expression than the music seems to ask for. Give me more hypnotic, stare into my eyes Torvill & Dean intensity and you'll make the sale for me for H & D.