2015 Skate America Pairs Free Skate Oct 24

[Ilvskating]

Congratulations Sui/Han!!! Love their two programs this year! Well deserved win.

Canadian pair should be 2nd. She was a cat The new look is good for her, much more mature looking and cute too.

 

[sses1]

S/H will win worlds. There FP is divine. S/K should not have been second, that is a complete joke. They need better choreography, something with more transitions and those SBS jumps need a lot of work. S/B made a huge improvement on their last competition and have real chemistry with eachother, the baby Canadians were robbed. I'm praying Ksenia and Fedor get their **** together eventually, that was a nice 3+3+2 though.
*Another thing that annoys me is when skaters try elements like a 4STh when it doesn't even look like a consistent element for them. Sui and Han knew better than to risk it, K/S cannot afford to throw away points like that!

 

[Kitt]

Io

Yes but it's still shocking that a team of this level, who went to such lengths to prepare for the season, is having such difficulties.

I just saw the 3S on a better feed and yes that was forward actually. Too bad.

The woman sitting behind me at the rink said: those 2 have lost their mojo. Good description

 

[belladashwood]

S/H will win worlds. There FP is divine. S/K should not have been second, that is a complete joke. They need better choreography, something with more transitions and those SBS jumps need a lot of work. S/B made a huge improvement on their last competition and have real chemistry with eachother, the baby Canadians were robbed. I'm praying Ksenia and Fedor get their **** together eventually, that was a nice 3+3+2 though.
*Another thing that annoys me is when skaters try elements like a 4STh when it doesn't even look like a consistent element for them. Sui and Han knew better than to risk it, K/S cannot afford to throw away points like that!

S/H will definitely have their shot at winning worlds and I don't doubt that they'll be on the podium, but remember they'll be vying for that gold medal against V/T and D/R

Sorry but Sc/Kn earned their silver medal because they had one of the cleanest SP. I do agree they need more transitions in the FS & they should meet w/ Julie Marcotte to freshen up the choreography to get higher components, and also the SBS jumps have always been one of their weaknesses and that's something they have to stay on top of. But they are amping up their technical difficulty since adding the quad twist & now the 3toe-seq-3toe and they are much improved & more polished since their very first season back in 2012-2013 from speed & flow to lines & extension. You also forget that they are still the current US national champs.

S/B are just barely out of juniors and while they had a good FS, they're not as polished as the some of the other senior teams. Their presentation is still a bit juniorish, they need time to grow & develop while working on polishing their programs to get that second mark higher. They have great promise, but no they were not robbed and they also had mistakes in their FS with the SBS spins and 3T-2T combo (unison was off for both of those elements) and she barely held onto that 3Fth which had negative GOE. S/B rightfully beat Sc/Kn on the TES mark because of Sc/Kn's mistakes, but no the polish isn't quite there yet to beat Sc/Kn on components.

Lastly, whatever is going on with St/Kl is clearly mental, kudos to them for their 3T-3T-2T and huge 1st for any type of 3-3 jump combo being done in pairs. But they've been in a downward spiral since losing to D/R at last year's GPF. It's like Ksenia is going through the motions & both of their programs leave me cold, their is no warmth, emotion or connection. If they don't start skating consistently clean programs, then I'm not sure how much longer their components marks will hold up for them, not to mention I don't think the judges took too kindly to them skipping out on worlds last season either. They need to get to a good sports psychologist stat & fix whatever mental roadblock is going on with them.

 

[Skater Boy]

Well this is Skate America and not to say it is biased because it is international judging as expected for whatever reason (maybe the fans???) the Americans are doing a little better or a lot better than perhaps one might expect. I am shocked about the Americans s and k I thought they would bring it they did well in the short but big let down. Russia's S and K are one hot mess. if they had any chance they had to at least beat Sui and Han in pcs and they weren't close I think they might be finished; they los ttheir mojo - blame it on the hair cut perhaps They really look lost. very sad. No smoothness and ironically that is similar to V and T though maybe V and T will have improved. Yeah to the baby Canadians. but I think Sui and Han though it is one GP event really look like the faves to win it all - I am ont sure anyone has the whole package like them. Unless D and R skate clean the judges might still give them good pcs - they are just not the standard romantic couple.

 

[Meoima]

To be honest I think SA has ok judging, fair placements overall.

 

[Winnie_20]

The recap of this event is showing on Eurosport 2 now. I tried the Dutch audio a few minutes, but then quickly switched to English.

 

[DannyCurry]

Outside of the botched SBS jumps & scratchy landing on the throw 3S, everything else in the program was clean and their quad twist is one of the best by far. Like WWG stated they have great speed & flow and their lines & extension are much improved, the problem with their FS is that it needs more transitions I think more transitions would help the program look less robotic. With regards to performance aspect, Alexa is very expressive & emotive while Chris is not, while off-ice in regard to their personalities, Alexa is very bubbly, fiery, & outgoing while Chris is cool, quiet, & laidback which shows up in their on-ice performance, I do think some work with a drama/acting coach would help them with selling the performance more which will showcase their chemistry & connection they have as an off-ice couple as well.



Actually they have improved, if this is your first time watching them then I suggest you go back and look at their performances from seasons past (archived in their fanfest thread here: Alexa Scimeca & Chris Knierim fanfest thread so you can see how far they've come since their debut as a pair back in the 2012-2013 season. They do deserve their components and I wouldn't say that those are "waaay inflated" because of the improvements they've made and also they are the #1 US pair and remember this is Skate America and there is always a bit of home team PCS inflation at every senior GP event.

My comment on the throw 3 sal was because WWG said that apart from the sbs jumps, the program was crisp and clean. 3 mistakes on 3 jumping elements!

That said, thank you for the link to the other thread. Okay, I took time to watch their 2013 FS at Worlds, which I find good for their first season together (and at least they nailed the sbs jumps there).

Back to 2015, I do see how Alexa & Chris have improved, but I still think their components for their FS last night were inflated. And if we were to mark the skaters according to their own progress only (and not also relative to the other teams' skills, performance, choreo etc), then please give Sui & Han 70+ PCS (since they really have come such a long way, if you look back at their earlier performances too).

Also, I will never support the fact that being the #1 team in your country and skating at home would justify your inflated components. Just because it is what has been done forever doesn't mean that it should be done and go on forever that way. Otherwise, please build some more rinks in Africa, and let the skating competitions take place there!

 

[Snow63]

Never been a fan of Seguin/Bilodeau but I think they deserved silver here, they were clean in both programs.
Sui/Han were good, nice FP. And Stolbova/Klimov made TOO many mistakes to medal. But yay for 3-3-2 combo!
As for Scimeca/Knierim, I'm not a fan of their FP, it's not exactly empty, but definitely lacking transitions, intricate choreography and clean execution of the elements. I would put them third here at best.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Yes but it's still shocking that a team of this level, who went to such lengths to prepare for the season, is having such difficulties.

I just saw the 3S on a better feed and yes that was forward actually. Too bad.

It's heartbreaking actually. S/K were one of my favourite teams and my main gripe with them is that they were technically deficient. So they try to fix that in the off season with upgraded SbS jumps and nail the first ever 3-3... but then make a bunch of silly SP errors and struggle with the 3S that they nailed at ONT - that was hard to watch.

I think they'll get it together this season by Euros but their main issue now is that their programs are just blah (SP is better than the FS), compared to their past programs. Ksenia just had this resting b----face the whole FS and the program is so cold and just sucks the life out of anyone watching. It was nice to see Ksenia smiling at the end because she looked like she was just going through the motions throughout most of that FS.

 

[Osmond4gold]

Also, I will never support the fact that being the #1 team in your country and skating at home would justify your inflated components. Just because it is what has been done forever doesn't mean that it should be done and go on forever that way. Otherwise, please build some more rinks in Africa, and let the skating competitions take place there!

Amen to that...DannyCurry!

 

[Olympic]

Wow. A couple of haters here and there. I think for some, it emanates from 'my skater finished lower than expected', and some of you are too emotionally involved. Take a pill.

I finally watched S/K (American) - Their overall skating skills have improved since last year. There were 2 big mistakes on the SBS jumps, but I wouldn't call the throw 3sal mistake egregious: She OVERrotated it (probably from training a quad?) and her free foot grazed the ice. They had a quad twist, the throw 3flip and Death Spiral was swish, their spins were better than normal for them, and their lifts have always been at the elite level. They generally skate w/ big amplitude and judges like that.

Looking at the GOE, it seemed fair enough and the PCS, they've made improvements in their speed and ice coverage and used to receive 6's - 7's, now they receive 7's - 8's. Not blatant and egregious, and yes, there was a bit of a bump probably from skating in the US, but let's NOT pretend that doesn't happen for Canadians skating in Canada, Russians skating in Russia (do not make me help you relive Sochi!), and Japanese skaters in Japan.

S/B and S/K (Russian) both scored better than S/K (American) in the LP. S/B looked clean, S/K (Russian) had their own mistakes.

You can critique, but when certain people post again and again about the same issue and make rude comments, it's time to dial it back

 

[belladashwood]

Wow. A couple of haters here and there. I think for some, it emanates from 'my skater finished lower than expected', and some of you are too emotionally involved. Take a pill.

I finally watched S/K (American) - Their overall skating skills have improved since last year. There were 2 big mistakes on the SBS jumps, but I wouldn't call the throw 3sal mistake egregious: She OVERrotated it (probably from training a quad?) and her free foot grazed the ice. They had a quad twist, the throw 3flip and Death Spiral was swish, their spins were better than normal for them, and their lifts have always been at the elite level. They generally skate w/ big amplitude and judges like that.

Looking at the GOE, it seemed fair enough and the PCS, they've made improvements in their speed and ice coverage and used to receive 6's - 7's, now they receive 7's - 8's. Not blatant and egregious, and yes, there was a bit of a bump probably from skating in the US, but let's NOT pretend that doesn't happen for Canadians skating in Canada, Russians skating in Russia (do not make me help you relive Sochi!), and Japanese skaters in Japan.

S/B and S/K (Russian) both scored better than S/K (American) in the LP. S/B looked clean, S/K (Russian) had their own mistakes.

You can critique, but when certain people post again and again about the same issue and make rude comments, it's time to dial it back

Thanks for your post, some are highly emotional because they're shocked that a US pair team is on the rise because US pairs have been a joke for the past few Olympic cycles or so. The mistake on the throw 3-sal is because it's a new throw jump for Sc/Kn (they used to do the throw 3-loop in their FS) & you're right the reason why they're doing the throw 3-sal is because they'll eventually be converting it into a quad as stated by their coach here: U.S. pairs up technical ante at Skate America

 

[Osmond4gold]

Okay, ...I could let this pass but then again I believe a reality check is much needed here.

K&S (American) with "a bit of a bump probably", barely beat S&B, Canada's Bronze Medal Team, at 'Inflate America'.

Enjoy the moment Bella!

 

[Olympic]

It could also be that Stolbova / Klimov fans may feel that their skaters are in jeopardy of not making the GPF. Also agree that US skaters treading on Russian / Canadian turf might make others nervous

 

[Ice Diva]

Okay, ...I could let this pass but then again I believe a reality check is much needed here.

K&S (American) with "a bit of a bump probably", barely beat S&B, Canada's Bronze Medal Team, at 'Inflate America'.

Enjoy the moment Bella!

Check mate

 

[Skater Boy]

It could also be that Stolbova / Klimov fans may feel that their skaters are in jeopardy of not making the GPF. Also agree that US skaters treading on Russian / Canadian turf might make others nervous

It seems pretty clear S and K aren't going to make it. the whole Russian pairs scene is competitive but I could see them missing the podium at worlds. I am not convinced v and T will even be around at worlds nor S and K for that matter. K and S are aging and always fighting injuries and the other teams are kind of jus tgood Russian pairs but not wonderful. three Chinese teams, the Americans, Italians Duhamel and Radford. Russia is not impressing right now but we'll see in the end.

 

[DannyCurry]

Thanks for your post, some are highly emotional because they're shocked that a US pair team is on the rise because US pairs have been a joke for the past few Olympic cycles or so. The mistake on the throw 3-sal is because it's a new throw jump for Sc/Kn (they used to do the throw 3-loop in their FS) & you're right the reason why they're doing the throw 3-sal is because they'll eventually be converting it into a quad as stated by their coach here: U.S. pairs up technical ante at Skate America

As far as I'm concerned, I don't have any problem with American teams since I've loved several US pair teams in the past (especially Ina & Dungjen / Ina & Zimmerman / Castile & Okolski). I admit I can't name any from the past olympic cycles, whether because there wasn't any good team or because I simply haven't been following FS as closely as I used to, like 10 years ago. But really, I don't have any problem with American pair skaters rising in the ranks, if only they deserve it.
Plus, I didn't have any favorite team finishing below the Americans at this competition (though I did think the Canadians should have come in second place overall) so I didn't get "highly emotional" at all here.

And who ever called the mistake on the throw 3 salchow "egregious"? That may not have been an egregious one, but that was a mistake nonetheless, while someone was claiming that apart from the sbs jumps, the program was clean. It just was not!

Good luck to them on adding the throw quad sal. They'll need the big tricks to make their FS exciting to watch.

I've already stated in another post that I don't support home-inflated scores (yes, I would not even support favouring French skaters at the TEB by inflating their scores) but as I wrote already, I'm well aware that it happens at any event, most of the time, unfortunately. However, unlike most people, I will also acknowledge if one of my favorite teams got inflated scores (and not say that they deserved those).

 

[belladashwood]

Okay, ...I could let this pass but then again I believe a reality check is much needed here.

K&S (American) with "a bit of a bump probably", barely beat S&B, Canada's Bronze Medal Team, at 'Inflate America'.

Enjoy the moment Bella!

Sorry but your bias seems to indicate that all American pairs teams suck, and that when one team is actually improving & starting to rise that they don't deserve it. I guess you missed where I stated earlier in the thread that Canada's Bronze medalists rightfully beat Sc/Kn on the TES mark in the FS because of Sc/Kn's mistakes; however the polish isn't quite there yet for S/B to beat higher ranked senior teams like Sc/Kn, S/H & St/Kl on components because S/B's presentation is still a bit juniorish, they need time to mature while working on polishing their programs to get that second mark higher (good grief this is their first senior GP, they just aged out of juniors after this past season).

FYI: I am enjoying the moment, enjoy "Inflate Canada" where the home team gets a bump in their components whether they deserve it or not .

 

[belladashwood]

As far as I'm concerned, I don't have any problem with American teams since I've loved several US pair teams in the past (especially Ina & Dungjen / Ina & Zimmerman / Castile & Okolski). I admit I can't name any from the past olympic cycles, whether because there wasn't any good team or because I simply haven't been following FS as closely as I used to, like 10 years ago. But really, I don't have any problem with American pair skaters rising in the ranks, if only they deserve it.
Plus, I didn't have any favorite team finishing below the Americans at this competition (though I did think the Canadians should have come in second place overall) so I didn't get "highly emotional" at all here.

Never thought you had a problem w/ US teams, nor were you highly emotional. It's just others in the thread have all this vitriol towards an American team improving & being able compete with other top teams, especially "their team". We'll have to agree to disagree on who deserves 2nd, it's must my opinion that although the Canadians did well their presentation is still juniorish, they need to mature & develop on their components, as I have stated previously they have great promise, they just need more polishing; people seemed to forget that this is their 1st senior GP & should look at the positive that they're even on the podium.

And who ever called the mistake on the throw 3 salchow "egregious"? That may not have been an egregious one, but that was a mistake nonetheless, while someone was claiming that apart from the sbs jumps, the program was clean. It just was not!

Good luck to them on adding the throw quad sal. They'll need the big tricks to make their FS exciting to watch.

Agree that the mistake on the throw 3-sal was not egregious, just a scratchy landing due to over-rotation (you can clearly tell Sc/Kn are training that throw to become a quad eventually). What was egregious were the SBS jumps, they can land them & have shown that they can in past competitions, but it seems to be more of an mental issue w/ them regarding that element. I believe WWG ignored the the mistake on the throw 3-sal by only mentioning the SBS jumps; I stated that outside of their mistakes on both the SBS jumps AND the throw 3-Sal, the rest of their other elements were clean.

I do think having 2 quads in Sc/Kn's repertoire will make them a more dangerous pair to contend with, I don't expect them to put the quad throw in until it's being consistently landed on a regular basis, but as you can tell they are definitely training it. The key for them is consistency at performing their programs cleanly & landing those SBS jumps.

I've already stated in another post that I don't support home-inflated scores (yes, I would not even support favouring French skaters at the TEB by inflating their scores) but as I wrote already, I'm well aware that it happens at any event, most of the time, unfortunately. However, unlike most people, I will also acknowledge if one of my favorite teams got inflated scores (and not say that they deserved those).

I agree in that I don't like home-inflated scores either (Sochi anyone? I still think Pechalat & Bourzat were robbed of a Olympic bronze medal ), I was just stating the fact that home teams at GP events tend to get their scores inflated, especially if they're that nation's #1 team whether they deserve it or not, it's just the way the cookie crumbles. Not to mention, I hate how the judges use the components as place holders. It's just I personally think Sc/Kn have improved on their components since last season and it has been something they stated they were working on while training during the off season; however the one component that needs the most work in their FS are the transitions.