Did you watch them in the previous GP?
They did really well in Russia. Of course this program is not to everybody's liking but IMO they've showed us they can make it work really well. Today just wasn't a good showing.
2017 GP Cup of China Pairs SP
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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They did really well in Russia. Of course this program is not to everybody's liking but IMO they've showed us they can make it work really well. Today just wasn't a good showing.
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- Aug 9, 2008
Seeing the last GP this program does not highlight their good points. That said you really need a program that you can miss a thing or...and still score well. This is not it. They seem to like it though and they always have good energy.
I missed them in Russia. Thanks for telling me that they've done this performance better. I'll have to find the video.
That is a very interesting turn of phrase in a printed word forumI was cosplaying the bummed US perspective
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Although S/H were really strong today this competition was a bit boring compared to last weeks showdown (D/R vs. S/M vs. J/C)
Last year I thought that Y/Z are on their way to medal in Pyoenchang but their development has not been as good as expected. The overall performance is nowhere near to the podium. I think S/H´s SP is worth the score. But it has not the class of last year´s SP. It was nearly a topdraw today wit almost no room for improvements except at the DS. I dislike the costume since it looks kind of cheap. We will see what will happen tomorrow after so many guys complained about their music choice.
Last year I thought that Y/Z are on their way to medal in Pyoenchang but their development has not been as good as expected. The overall performance is nowhere near to the podium. I think S/H´s SP is worth the score. But it has not the class of last year´s SP. It was nearly a topdraw today wit almost no room for improvements except at the DS. I dislike the costume since it looks kind of cheap. We will see what will happen tomorrow after so many guys complained about their music choice.
| 1 | Wenjing SUI / Cong HAN | CHN | 80.14 | 1 | video |
| 2 | Xiaoyu YU / Hao ZHANG | CHN | 71.37 | 2 | video |
| 3 | Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE | ITA | 63.76 | 3 | video |
| 4 | Kirsten MOORE-TOWERS / Michael MARINARO | CAN | 62.52 | 4 | video |
| 5 | Valentina MARCHEI / Ondrej HOTAREK | ITA | 59.53 | 5 | video |
| 6 | Mingyang ZHANG / Bowen SONG | CHN | 53.15 | 6 | video |
| 7 | Ashley CAIN / Timothy LEDUC | USA | 53.15 | 7 | video |
PCS are always a joke, and when you don't have rep status and make tech mistakes, the judges slaughter you. Ash & Tiimothy deserved higher PCS, especially on CO and IN. I can see they are 5 pts ahead of the third Chinese pair on PCS, but they still deserved at least 28.00 on PCS. Marchei/Hotarek are not a better team on PCS than Cain/LeDuc.
It appears that since the venue is China, somehow the third Chinese team are being kept above Ash & Timothy with that tie. The deductions on tech for C/L still do not account for that score. Ash and Timothy were faster, and they had better lifts and choreo than Zhang/Song. Ash's throw jump landing was very good too. It's just the height and dismount on the 3-twist and Ash's fall on the sbs loops that were problematic.
Sui/Han are simply driven and unbelievable. Still, the Eurosport guys (altho I enjoy their commentary are not exactly right with some of the things they say). Last season, Sui/Han made their comeback at Worlds and won deservedly, but with a fall in the fp. Since they did not compete for most of that season, I would not say they were unbeatable for the past year. They were also second at Worlds in 2016. True that S/H will be tough to beat in Pyeongchang with the perfection, precision and newly mature passion they usually put out on the ice.
Della Monica/Guarise have improved a great deal and are a very smooth team now. I think they are better than Marchei/Hotarek. It's close between D-M/G and Kirsten/Michael. Also, if Marchei/Hotarek hit their elements, they tend to get gift scores from the judges. Still, M/H strike me as singles skaters performing together, rather than a true pair. I don't think Michael is as strong a partner as some of the guys, but he and Kirsten have improved a lot together, and if they skate their gorgeous fp the way they can hopefully they will stay in third. The judges will surely not be doing them any favors though I'm sure. It would be something for Kirsten/Michael if they could medal at COC, what with Seg/Bil and Luba/Dylan not having great results at their first GP outings.
It appears that since the venue is China, somehow the third Chinese team are being kept above Ash & Timothy with that tie. The deductions on tech for C/L still do not account for that score. Ash and Timothy were faster, and they had better lifts and choreo than Zhang/Song. Ash's throw jump landing was very good too. It's just the height and dismount on the 3-twist and Ash's fall on the sbs loops that were problematic.
Sui/Han are simply driven and unbelievable. Still, the Eurosport guys (altho I enjoy their commentary are not exactly right with some of the things they say). Last season, Sui/Han made their comeback at Worlds and won deservedly, but with a fall in the fp. Since they did not compete for most of that season, I would not say they were unbeatable for the past year. They were also second at Worlds in 2016. True that S/H will be tough to beat in Pyeongchang with the perfection, precision and newly mature passion they usually put out on the ice.
Della Monica/Guarise have improved a great deal and are a very smooth team now. I think they are better than Marchei/Hotarek. It's close between D-M/G and Kirsten/Michael. Also, if Marchei/Hotarek hit their elements, they tend to get gift scores from the judges. Still, M/H strike me as singles skaters performing together, rather than a true pair. I don't think Michael is as strong a partner as some of the guys, but he and Kirsten have improved a lot together, and if they skate their gorgeous fp the way they can hopefully they will stay in third. The judges will surely not be doing them any favors though I'm sure. It would be something for Kirsten/Michael if they could medal at COC, what with Seg/Bil and Luba/Dylan not having great results at their first GP outings.
You should see my imaginary stars & stripes outfit! It's pretty rad!That is a very interesting turn of phrase in a printed word forum
Yeah. Even today M/H got a bit better PCS than either DM/G or MTM2.
DM/G have been doing great in Challengers, I hope they're not gonna headcase tomorrow now that their first GP medal is within their grasp... I just find them very likeable (even though their programs tend to a bit bland & boring TBH, their last year's SP being the exception to the rule) and find myself rooting for them.
True. I like Guarise more than his partner, but they are well-matched and have improved a lot. Marchei/Hotarek have worn thin with me. I wish they would go away. I do not like their cheesy programs. M/H certainly do NOT deserve such high PCS scores. Especially not vs the lowball marks given to Cain/LeDuc on CO and IN. I have a problem with the score totals, and I would have C/L at 55+ at the very least, putting them a bit ahead of the slow and juniorish-looking third Chinese pair.
This type of situation is what makes this sport sooo very frustrating. Who the heck are these judges, and why can't they learn the difference between good artistry, average and superior?! The problem is that the judges need to be neutral and not tied to any federation. Plus they need judges brought in who have a background in choreography, movement and performance aesthetics, as well as judges who are better trained overall. The variances in how the tech panel sets standards from event-to-event also needs to be addressed.
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- Aug 9, 2008
Off base. C/L were gifted the higher PCS. Gifted. They do skate as single skaters but only because the pair elements are mostly weak. Twist she did basically alone which is impressive to her strength actually. To have gotten that high of PCS over the other team when you had a fall, a weaker lift, a missed twist basically, and hits on ds, and many levels shows a lot actually of how much the judges admire them. Their lifts are basic and still so simple?? like they are only counting on the throw (early in the program now) and the jumps to win. The DS too was off lvl 2? Tons of level mistakes that add up. The throw she usually pulls in herself doing it alone again which shows her strength. They know that. So we should support them in doing better next time and wishing a good FS. That said there is no replacement for a Pair team. Always there is a honeymoon time then the reality hits. This is pair skating baby.
To add just compare the pair elements of those two teams. The Chinese are younger and skating skills not there yet and with those legs a lyrical number would have been better but the Chinese are calculated and want to separate their three top Senior teams from any others so they probably will get crap till someone retires. That said. Taking the twist, throw, death spiral, and the lift alone. Compare those tech elements. I agree C/L are more mature and better skating skills, better single jumps even with the fall, lines etc. They did have a lot of other lvl mistakes or they would be ahead by several more points. They are also very supportive of each other admirable and nice to see that but there is no miracle for time. They need more time they are a new team still. Onto the fS
M/H are one of the few teams who really PERFORM and ham it up, so even if I may get a bit tired of their style, I think the effort they make to project and sell their programs is commendable and should be rewarded. Especially in discipline like pairs, where you mostly get blank concentration faces and somewhat wooden body language and only fleeting moments of actual performance. So, I'm actually fine with some extra performance/interpretation points sprinkled on (flawed) M/H compared to e.g. (flawed) DM/G... But I do think C/L performed & projected well, too, and didn't let the performance go despite the botched jumping pass, and I felt they were a bit underscored compared to M/H (with a similarly botched jumping pass) in a couple of PCS categories.
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- Dec 13, 2016
When Hotarek literally jumps over Marchei's head how can you not be at least a little bit filled with joy? [emoji6]
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- Aug 9, 2008
I think people forget how new of a team C/L are too. It takes time. Sometimes in the beginning when there is nothing to loose things are easier. It is the development over time that is hard. Props.
The venue being in China didn't have anything to do with the Chinese team finishing higher with the tie break. Cain/LeDuc's lift wasn't strong. On the change of position, Tim didn't get his arm locked and it was barely up. They also had a weaker twist than the Chinese team. Their death spiral was slow with weak position. Ashley's throw landing was adequate, but her chest was a bit low and the throw itself is small, whereas the Chinese team got more air. I imagine these two teams will reverse in standings in the LP, but there's nothing wrong with today's result. C/L didn't have any strong elements in that program, with the twist and jump being the weakest points. Their lines don't always match, they don't always skate "like a pair" (he gives more face than her), she is too bent at the waist sometimes. Choreographically, it was nice, but that can only do so much. The Chinese pair's PCS was much lower anyway. The tie was because their TES was higher.
I agree that on a good day, Della Monica/Guarise are a stronger team and more "pair-like" than Marchei/Hotarek. Marchei/Hotarek stand out with that Italian charm, but when the elements aren't there it falls a little flat.
Moore-Towers/Marinaro are actually in 4th, but I think have a good chance at bronze. I really like their LP as well. There are not many options in this field and Marchei/Hotarek did themselves no favors with that SP.
That throw 3F was magnificent!
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- Jan 10, 2014
I think one of the reasons Sui/Han have become one of my favorite teams is because they are probably the only pair in the world that can connect with each other throughout the entire program even when they aren't looking at each other. They possess an innate awareness and sensitivity to one another, and very few current pairs have this (in fact, very few pairs team now even look at each other during a program unless they're in the opening and closing poses).
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- May 2, 2014
one of the advantages of skating for so long togeter, sharing every moment good or bad, growing together,
look at the rink side during Yu/Zhang's final spin https://youtu.be/PjCO5hICkgc?t=180:luv17:
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Sui & Han won a car?
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