2017 GP Rostelecom Cup Free Dance

[WeakAnkles]

S/B's FD is, technically, more difficult (great difficult twizzles) than the Shibs' or B/S but presentation-wise _ the story telling, etc, the other two _the Shibs and B/S are much better. I can see why B/S lost by less than a point. Though their program is more eloquent (story-telling wise), the Shibs' skating are smoother _ edges - better. The placement in the podium is definitely right. S/B's short is boring, B/S's_ boring, too. The Shibs have a wonderful SD but somewhat pales in comparison to V/M's and P/C's. V/M definitely are better Latin dancers. The Shibs have better or more appropriate music.

S/B's twizzles are far closer to pirouettes than,you know, actual twizzles. I thought it very clever of them to put steps in between sets of them to hide this fact.

 

[joanne129]

Maybe if Canada stopped boosting their marks they would realize that what they got is the mark they deserve! That FD doesn’t do it for me and that’s black dress doesn’t do her justice
Sorry

I agree. Piper's upper body movements look stiff to me. They are always overscored.

 

[matcha]

It goes to show you, doesn’t it? I guess Arvo Paart, Phillip Glass, and Max Richter are members of Coldplay now. I think I’m just going to have to take a break from the forums until after the Olympics. I get many of the criticisms but I also think so many of them are over the top and not based on truth and have been prepared ahead of time. Anyway, if the Shibs listened to everything smart fans had to say they probably wouldn’t have had the success that they’ve had so far, and probably would have retired a long time ago. Won the competition, PCS near mid-9.0s across the board and continuing to score over 110 in the FD for an entire season plus 2016 Worlds, but it seems people are convinced they are going to be easily passed over by teams currently behind them.

Seriously. The comments, particularly in the event threads, are simply becoming more and more toxic. By February this place'll be unbearable.

 

[Mattieu]

Seriously. The comments, particularly in the event threads, are simply becoming more and more toxic. By February this place'll be unbearable.

Yep, biatch city !

My team is better than your team, so I will diss your team to make sure ha ha

 

[dearskate]

Everything about Gilles/Poirier's skating and outfits is stunning! I never get tired of watching that FD!

Yes, I love everything Gilles/Poirier do. I can never understand why their scores are so low.

 

[NoNameFace]

The last time I heard those words for a Canadian skater they were used for Gabby Daleman on the 4CC podium not smiling enough. She got her smiles in at Worlds instead.

Did you know Piper had to deal with a black out in her hotel room on the first day, and then later on bed bugs? She was bit badly on her legs. In the middle of the competition she had to change rooms.

Sometimes it's not just scores that upset an athlete. It's circumstances too.

I really don't understand the concept of labeling someone who actually participated in the event and who tried to sum up his/her feelings about it as a whole, as a 'sore loser'. It's similar to the rhethoric of some practiced even there: 'if you have nothing positive and gushy to say about certain skater, your opinion is wrong/unnecessary/ridiculous, so don't bother'. I know it's so easy to tell your own tales just looking at the words and results without actually do the effort and try to picture all circumstances surrounding it - but then, don't be so quick with putting a label, especially of being 'sore'. Yes, Piper and Paul were not winners there and yes, they lost there to 3 teams, but should they ought to be named as 'losers' necessary? I don't think so.

Depending on perspective, I'd rather say that they scored and placed lower than 3 teams, resulting in 4th place overall, but the real loss for me is in the circumstance that there seems to be no reward, appreciation or just plain curiousity and openess from judges about innovative, unfamiliar, original stuff/concept presented out there, not even getting into execution of it. I think that each program - and the idea behind of it - deserves interest and at least some attempt to understand how it is composed, what is the co-relation between components of it, what is the reflection of the team itself put in it. I do not see a problem with appreciating in equal measure both 'chlice' and original concepts, if done solidly and with confidence, but we have what we have.

There's often a voice of public asking for more originality, innovation, thinking 'outside of the box', more individual, personalized approach in Ice Dance, but who are going to make that risk, if the stuff like that is usually not well-rewarded or just not treated with interest on par with 'safe stuff'? It's a closed circle really, which then proves such thing like 'Ice Dance politicking' or 'Ice Dance reputation'. And when there's in a case of non-typical stuff getting a result, commented by skaters themselves, 'sore losers' remark is an answer, with additional 'bonus' of criticizing skills, placing in 'leagues' and laughing at someone's ambition to beat winners (which should be notabene always a natural no.1 desire for all competitive athletes). How convenient.

I am not only a fan of Piper and Paul's daring attitude and 'doing themselves' in this twisted Ice Dance reality, but I am a fan of versality out there, creating new ways/path of expressing themselves in Ice Dance in general. I just wish it woud be more visible and common, not treated as a risk not worthy to take, resulting in lack of recognition and so desired 'reputation'. And what's really wrong with Piper's tweet? She just said the truth, because often the sole love of the stuff you're doing keeps you going forward despite al stuff swirling around, moreover - the love of the dance in general, as a form of expression, the art/complexity of it is so prominent in the stuff Piper and Paul does, regardless of results. What irks people is the fact that someone has a courage to speak out it this way in public, being - surprise, surprise - a public persona and a sport's ambassador in the world. Her tweet should be a starting point of some real, merit discussion, not a ridiculing point to call names and to dismiss her as 'sore loser', never.

 

[moon]

All talk of originality, costumes, the feelings you get when watching are valid. However, we must remember this is an actual sport not an off ice dance competition. There are many more objective skills that are marked that go into the score. I think the general spectator is only seeing sometimes a dance that they either like or not. For long time observers G/P have had a history of being tremendously over marked in Canada when the first started. So, seeing her publicly complain about her placement or marks is a bit much. They are on par with G/F at the moment I think as far as PCS are concerned and if they become a better team they will get higher marks. Simple

 

[Lester]

I think part of the problem is that components don't seem to ever be marked individually but always as a group in certain range, so they never really reflect the true strengths of the team. So whoever makes a better impression on the judges gets higher component scores for every category. I think most of the top teams have certain strengths and weaknesses (posture, lines, stiffness, unoriginality, restraint, etc), so, I mean, if G&P are overscored, then so is everyone. They deserve high marks in some caregories, maybe not in others. Just as I don't think S&B deserve such high marks in every category for their small skating and questionable postures, even if they did give an energetic performance yesterday.

 

[NoNameFace]

All talk of originality, costumes, the feelings you get when watching are valid. However, we must remember this is an actual sport not an off ice dance competition. There are many more objective skills that are marked that go into the score. I think the general spectator is only seeing sometimes a dance that they either like or not. For long time observers G/P have had a history of being tremendously over marked in Canada when the first started. So, seeing her publicly complain about her placement or marks is a bit much. They are on par with G/F at the moment I think as far as PCS are concerned and if they become a better team they will get higher marks. Simple

no, for me it's not that simple actually - it's a matter of perspective. For you, Piper complained about scores and placement, but did she, really? It can be viewed much broader and we don't even know the real emotion behind it - some will see it always as a complain, 'sore' one, but would it be viewed as same if other team stated such remark as Piper did publicly? It's easy to jump to some conclusion, especially common and cliche ones baed on one social media message. And then she should be probably ashamed to post that, according to some. Maybe she should be ashamed then also for the stuff they are doing on ice?

And it depends on the meaning behind 'if they become a better team' phrase - being better in what terms: doing what judges are expecting you to do in terms of material, then scoring higher due to that and taking podiums? Or progressing towards being better with your own pace and direction taken, improving skill and connection in the process? Becoming a 'better team' does not equal 'better scored team'.

 

[moon]

I don’t think at all that they are being marked down because of their program choices. Most people find them entertaining and they are not what I would call so avant- grade as to not be understandable. Where we seem to diverge is that the judges are only taking their choreography and interpretation into account as far as scoring goes. No points are awarded for originality or costumes. Teams will sometimes repeat a program and marks aren’t deducted. I am not going to use G/P as an specific example because I don’t mean to pick on them. Some of the things that teams of that caliber can improve on are deeper edges, bigger fully completed turns , a nice long smooth run on the blade,harder transitions , closer holds and lifts that appear to be effortless These kind of things have nothing to do with the program theme but will elevate the said team to the next level

 

[CAS]

The last time I heard those words for a Canadian skater they were used for Gabby Daleman on the 4CC podium not smiling enough. She got her smiles in at Worlds instead.

Did you know Piper had to deal with a black out in her hotel room on the first day, and then later on bed bugs? She was bit badly on her legs. In the middle of the competition she had to change rooms.

Sometimes it's not just scores that upset an athlete. It's circumstances too.

That´s unfortunate to hear. I am curious though, was she not at a hotel with all skaters and did she share a room?

 

[ancientpeas]

Criticizing skaters for honest responses to their feelings means we end up with all those highly sanitized remarks that some of us find so fake it makes our teeth hurt from the saccharine. I follow Piper on Twitter. She's a nice girl who has yet to fall into the whole political game of never saying anything negative about anything. I like honesty more than cleverly worded answers that express no feelings whatsoever. Both Tessa and Kaitlyn have learned to really bland out their responses to any low marks. They probably have something to say to their team and partners afterwards but both have learned to cover their feelings pretty well.

It isn't like she stood up in the KnC and yelled "Why, oh why, did I come to Russia?" In fact she posted a really nice picture of her and Paul with all the flower children saying how cute they all were.

I think if I were to judge the FDs based on what I saw I think the Shibs were the best but no one can argue that both Russian teams (B/S and S/B) went out there and performed well and with intensity. I probably would have put S/B ahead of G/P. I actually thought the Italians were my favourites and I'm not a big fan of theirs normally. It was such a nice program and they definitely seem to be improving. I'm also glad to see the costumes they have this year. Last years were pretty bad.

And I think Barbara F-P could still out emote anyone. Even Ekaterina.

 

[AliAle]

I think part of the problem is that components don't seem to ever be marked individually but always as a group in certain range, so they never really reflect the true strengths of the team.

This, so much! It's been bugging me to no ends that they have 5 PC categories but they're all typically within 0.5 difference. Why can't you have mid 9.5 for Composition and 8.5 for Skating Skills? It would be incredible rewarding to see a program and a skater appreciated for exactly what they put on ice. This is especially valid for individual skaters where we've seen sooooo many empty programs from good skaters that should realistically score as low as a 5 or a 6 in the Transition and Composition categories.

 

[kevinVchicago]

This, so much! It's been bugging me to no ends that they have 5 PC categories but they're all typically within 0.5 difference. Why can't you have mid 9.5 for Composition and 8.5 for Skating Skills? It would be incredible rewarding to see a program and a skater appreciated for exactly what they put on ice. This is especially valid for individual skaters where we've seen sooooo many empty programs from good skaters that should realistically score as low as a 5 or a 6 in the Transition and Composition categories.

Totally agree with this.

 

[WeakAnkles]

Criticizing skaters for honest responses to their feelings means we end up with all those highly sanitized remarks that some of us find so fake it makes our teeth hurt from the saccharine. I follow Piper on Twitter. She's a nice girl who has yet to fall into the whole political game of never saying anything negative about anything. I like honesty more than cleverly worded answers that express no feelings whatsoever. Both Tessa and Kaitlyn have learned to really bland out their responses to any low marks. They probably have something to say to their team and partners afterwards but both have learned to cover their feelings pretty well.

It isn't like she stood up in the KnC and yelled "Why, oh why, did I come to Russia?" In fact she posted a really nice picture of her and Paul with all the flower children saying how cute they all were.

I think if I were to judge the FDs based on what I saw I think the Shibs were the best but no one can argue that both Russian teams (B/S and S/B) went out there and performed well and with intensity. I probably would have put S/B ahead of G/P. I actually thought the Italians were my favourites and I'm not a big fan of theirs normally. It was such a nice program and they definitely seem to be improving. I'm also glad to see the costumes they have this year. Last years were pretty bad.

And I think Barbara F-P could still out emote anyone. Even Ekaterina.

The King and Queen of this in ice dancing have to be Meryl and Charlie, who never gave an answer to a question that wasn't so PR-pristine you couldn't perform surgery on it. They also never gave an interesting interview their entire skating career.

Funny how that works.

Krylova could give BF-P a run for her angst-pangst money.

 

[MIM]

From a distance, Alex looks topless in his SD costume.

The only ice dancer I need to skate topless it Poje.

you spoke my mind

Is this Avatar?

The classic Duchesnays FD is on youtube. You need to go and watch it ASAP!

ETA: here you go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coM4d1CQZfs

Then google "ghost dances" (the ballet)

Thank you for the reference! That was awesome! I could not associate the Parsons' program to this. Beautiful, original program to look up to. The Parsons have a great talent. but this year FD looks borderline hokey-pokey. The choreography started with a stunning reference but they took it to a wrong direction, I guess. Too polished and optimized to be original and interesting.

I was very impressed by the new Russian team, Betina and Sergey. She definitely reminded me of gorgeous Elena Ilinykh for her flashy and wild performance. Sergey was not shy away performing Carmen. I could not believe they were a newly formed team.

Charlene and Marco finally have a decent program and a dress that can possibly take them seriously!!! I wish it happened sooner.. but...
But I have to tell it is too simple. the choreography is too one note; she is caressing around him during the step sequence. There should be more layered, multi dimensional, nuanced movement. The program is a step-up from last seasons, but still long way to go to match up and bring out this team's talent.


Top3 I like the best;

Bobrova and Soloviev:
Their new FD is my favorite of their programs so far. There is a solid plot both story-wise and movement-wise. Their effortless (CuLi) and powerful (SlLi) lifts grab your attention right away, then they act a blind girl staring an empty air and a man looking at her during a CiSt. Their acting is quite good and the tense air from the consecutive, hard-core lifts gets loosen up a little bit. After the botched spin and her eye-opening moment, they celebrate (RoLi), dance together(DiSt, but they seem heavy and less effective here) to the climax and drastic part of music, then wrap up with a ChLi(creative, but needs to be tidy). At the end , she leaves the man who now is a blind. The program is as literal and narrative as their Anna Karenina which I liked a lot. Their approach to ice dance has been very classical. I don't think they are trying to follow a contemporary dance trend. They like a story and follow the plot thoroughly, which I don't think is a case for an abstract and contemporary trend that P/C has introduced and developed.

Piper and Paul:
In terms of the exact storytelling, they kept us unknown. They only suggest it with rich description of characters and atmosphere, but never tell the actual story so kindly. A spin and a lift set the tone (a seductive woman and a man who is attracted by her). Then a music changes to suggest an old espionage film on a CiSt. They kept building along the Twizzle with angular transitions in between. After a jaw dropping Ina Bauer entry to a SlLi, you will feel that she is no longer trying to seduce him. He voluntarily follows her and even leads her to the finale. Observing who stands front or back when is also an interesting point to feel and understand their relationship change. It was a highly thought out program well executed by a fun and intellectual team.

Maia and Alex Shibutani:
I was very impressed by their performance. I liked their FD more than the SD, which left me a little cold yesterday.
This is the most abstract program among the top 3, and most natural coldplay series they have done so far. Fixyou felt like a biography of their skating life. But life goes on even after you are done writing your biography. They embraced who they are; their identity, engraved in soft and gentle movements has become a root for every programs they create .

Watching "Paradise", I felt like it was a diary of one of many days. It is not as grand or ground- breaking as "Fix you", but as natural and fresh as an everyday life. Now I understand their Latin dance SD as another day from this journal, only dressed up as Latin. I think Maia realized this sooner than Alex (i.e. her exceptional self awareness and presence in the last year SD and FD). He has come along though.

In the program, on a Straight line lift:luv17:, Alex does not grab Maia with his hand, but uses other body parts to lift her up. (I know this feature adds difficulty in rhythmic gymnastics). Loved the final movement where Maia's knee becomes an axis. The whole program is very well crafted. It is impossible to criticize someone else’s diary. I just sit back and enjoyed it entire time.

 

[wasabi]

couldn't be home cooking.....never happens right? This is the one GP event I cringe at results every year...

Funny, I had the impression that Skate Canada was the event that caused the most "scoring cringes"

 

[rain]

I've only watched ice dance so far and had some overall impressions from the season so far that were only reinforced at this competition that I wanted to share:

1. There are way too many overly complicated lifts this season. They are, no question, difficult, with multiple changes in position. They are also, almost to a one, ugly and divorced from the choreography. They look hard. They add nothing to anybody's program. Ugh. Just ugh.

2. Nobody so far this season has a FD that wows me right out of the gate. Last season there were many that I loved and couldn't wait to see again as the season progressed. Not this season. Nobody is taking a risk. Everyone looks terrified to step out of the box for the Olympics. So we get a rather generic and boring raft of forgettable choreography. Some of it is better than others, but none of it so far is "wow". I hope that many of these skaters continue to tweak, if not go right back to the drawing board.

OK, now that that's off my chest, for Rostelocom. The Shibs clearly deserved the win here. I think moving back to a Coldplay type program was the right move. I'm not sure that actually moving back to Coldplay itself was. It's not a surprising as the first time. Still loved the timing of the twizzles, and how the program built (entirely reminiscent of Fix You). But I don't remember much more of the choreography itself, which is a problem, except for, you guessed it, one of those ugly and overly complicated lifts.

Bobrova/Soloviev sure got a pass on the completely botched spin. The program is a bit much for me. So she's blind at the beginning, then it switches and she can miraculously see, while he then goes blind, or loses her or some such. Typical uninspired fare, but better than....

Stepanova/Bukin: That music is horrendous. Please get rid of the vocals. Like, right now. At least the choreography shows off their long lines a bit better than their past choreography. But all in all, it's just pretty.

 

[Sugarpova]

Did you know Piper had to deal with a black out in her hotel room on the first day, and then later on bed bugs? She was bit badly on her legs. In the middle of the competition she had to change rooms.

I saw it in her stories actually!
ashamed reallythis happens in my country & to such high profile athlets in high profile comps Is Aerostar is that 2 star hotel:shocked:
no wonder western media always go hunting for something bad to write about my home :noshake:

Funny, I had the impression that Skate Canada was the event that caused the most "scoring cringes"

the level of cringiness is determned by the nationality of the posters who post that

or the level of hypocrisy that we all have
'No your home cooking was more delcious'
'No Thats yours!'
etc
etc
etc

 

[TMC]

Sugarpova, there are bedbugs everywhere these days, they don't care about what country they're in. I remember a couple of years ago some of the best five star hotels in New York had a huge problem with them. They're so prevalent that I've started to check my hotel rooms before I even bring in my suitcase. It's just unfortunate but there's not much you can do.

Anyway, back to dance. Based on last weekend, here's my Olympic prediction: the Shibs will win the SD, P/C will win the FD, and V/M will come in 2nd in both segments but win overall :taunt: