2018 JGP Linz Free Dance

[4everchan]

They exist at ISU Championships.

thanks i will keep in mind they are figurative outside of the ISU Champs

 

[BillNeal]

Ok so I had a look at ChSt again and I think (not really sure cause there are not many guidelines on it) but perhaps it got invalidated because it wasn't skated around a defined horizontal short axis but rather a traveling axis?

https://youtu.be/dok0bLKDw1Y?t=46

 

[WeakAnkles]

Aw, well done Matilda and William, that was great! They've made a really good recovery after his broken ankle.

He had a broken ankle? Wow, that is a good recovery. Really, I think they have potential. I want to see how they develop.

 

[4everchan]

Ok so I had a look at ChSt again and I think (not really sure cause there are not many guidelines on it) but perhaps it got invalidated because it wasn't skated around a defined horizontal short axis but rather a traveling axis?

https://youtu.be/dok0bLKDw1Y?t=46

this is odd... i am definitely not infused with any knowledge, but what you are showing in the video looks planned... in other words, it's not like they made a mistake and it invalidated their element... so they will need to fix the choreo.....

 

[Colonel Green]

this is odd... i am definitely not infused with any knowledge, but what you are showing in the video looks planned... in other words, it's not like they made a mistake and it invalidated their element... so they will need to fix the choreo.....

I can't imagine that Marie-France and Romain forgot the rules when choreographing this.

 

[BillNeal]

I can't imagine that Marie-France and Romain forgot the rules when choreographing this.

It's a new element this season.

The guidelines are somewhat vague from the Ice Dance Handbook (Page 11) but the second point seems the most concrete:

Choreographic Character Step Sequence
The following requirements apply:
- Performed anywhere in the program
- Must be placed around the Short Axis and proceed from barrier to barrier.
- May be in hold or not touching

I also looked at Communication 2188 (Page 17):

6. Choreographic Character Step Sequence shall be identified at the entrance to the element and confirmed when both partners perform steps around the short axis from barrier to barrier.
7. Any Choreographic Element/Movement combined with another Required Element as an ‘Entry’ or ‘Exit’ feature will not be considered by the Technical Panel as a required Choreographic Element/Movement. It will only be considered by the Technical Panel as an ‘entry’ and/or ‘exit’ feature.

So it looks like it was identified but doesn't meet the second point of the definition because it wasn't placed around the short axis from barrier to barrier. I don't think No.7 applies because they finished their lift with its own exit feature, had a defined stop as their entry to ChSt and they do a number of transitions before their next element, the twizzles.

 

[Colonel Green]

If this line of thinking is correct, then I feel really bad for Marjorie and Zach, because that's not on them at all.

Also, if true, I have to imagine there are going to be a lot of emergency choreography sessions at the Gadbois Centre in the next few days, because if Marie-France and Romain really have misunderstood the rules, any of their other teams could also have this design flaw.

 

[NoNameFace]

Watched only Sofia/Igor and Marjorie /Zachary.
I am kinda surprised (positively) that such type of program came from Svinin/Zhuk camp. I think that musical choice and arrangement are very strong feature of that program, just different enough to stand out and not too overthought/over-weirded. Costuming on the other hand is a big no from me (at least for my visual aesthetic) - I dig the idea of Sofia's dress, but the effect looks poor, would love to see this undergarment strappy thing on ACTUAL dress, not underneath pink window curtain; in general would love to see the in more solid colours, contrasting with each other with some black geometric effect. As for skating, the first part was performed better that second one, they kind of ran away after 1st lift; I really liked this choreo parts when they were apart, it was not pretentious and mimicked the edginess of the music nicely. They have to pay attention on smoother exits from elements and Sofia's too frantic movement at places, Igor is really a standout for me - great basic skills, presence, fluidity, assistance. I liked also the musicality of the program. Definitely a positive surprise for me.
About Marjorie and Zachary...I have major disonance about them now, because I really love this program idea for them, but the actual performance of it left me underwhelmed: it seems like they almost wanted to do it too quick, on one swipe. Seeing this program performed twice now and seeing the score today I wonder on some of transitions and this final choreo element - there is a lot of knee sliding/low-on-knees transitional movement used in that choreography which may be pleasant on eyes, but I wonder if there is a benefit from it score and execution-wise; like You have pointed out, this choreo element issue with invalidation could come up to misunderstanding of new rules which is honestly quite ridiculous if this is true; I do hope that Gadbois will use their time wisely now to go to the boards and re-evaluate things from rules standpoint, because it is just sad to see teams losing points that way. I love the blue/green contrast of costumes, the vibe and flow created, loved also that choreography and movement use dynamism of classical piece, making it more 'in motion' than static.

 

[BillNeal]

If this line of thinking is correct, then I feel really bad for Marjorie and Zach, because that's not on them at all.

Also, if true, I have to imagine there are going to be a lot of emergency choreography sessions at the Gadbois Centre in the next few days, because if Marie-France and Romain really have misunderstood the rules, any of their other teams could also have this design flaw.

Fortunately, with Gadbois, the problem may be contained. Here are two ChSt1 from Gadbois teams at Asian Open. Notice how close they skate around or on the red line (short axis):

Wang/Liu: https://youtu.be/TJ94blfckpM?t=228
Komatsubara/Koleto: https://youtu.be/7P9yQ1oFr1k?t=154

Unfortunately, L/L's element got validated in Quebec (though it probably wasn't from tech specialists with ISU certification) with high GOE so M-F/R didn't realize they needed to change it: https://youtu.be/9AkGedej8oc?t=50

Which looks the same as today's version: https://youtu.be/dok0bLKDw1Y?t=46

But I guess it's better that M-F/R realize now to fix it rather than at more high-stakes events like JGPF or JWC.

 

[Sabrina]

Anybody knows why L/L really lost the whole Step sequence? What is the short axis on a skating rink? By comparison with other FS disciplines, I don't know a lot about dance. I know some of the requirements (tweezels, steps sq together and separate, spin, lifts) but there is a lot I don't know.

after reading all the replies I guess a short axis must be a red line that is parallel with the middle line. For me, they were on an axis that was parallel with whatever red line. Do they really need to skate around that line?

 

[Harriet]

He had a broken ankle? Wow, that is a good recovery. Really, I think they have potential. I want to see how they develop.

Yes, it took him off ice for several months last season and I think they only made it back just in time for Four Continents. They've really built up since then.

 

[Ice Dance]

Anybody knows why L/L really lost the whole Step sequence?

I assume because it did not travel from barrier to barrier. It has to travel from one side of the rink to the other. (The short way). But it doesn't look like they came all the way up to the first side of the rink in order to start the step sequence. (It's just a choreographic step sequence, worth at most a level one. Not one of the step sequences worth a ton of points. Though, of course, in dance even a few points are a big deal. Wouldn't have changed the outcome though and shouldn't be hard to fix. It does seem a shame that it wasn't caught in their season opener in Quebec, but perhaps L&L executed it differently here. Shevchenko & Eremenko have quite a few upgrades they can make as well. I really enjoyed S&E's RD but thought the free didn't really look ready yet.

 

[BillNeal]

after reading all the replies I guess a short axis must be a red line that is parallel with the middle line. For me, they were on an axis that was parallel with whatever red line. Do they really need to skate around that line?

It seems from this source that there is only one short axis and when visible, that is the red line because it divides the rink into two halves:

DG 1.04 Short Axis: A straight line that divides the ice surface into two halves crosswise.

Apart from the entry, L/L traveled away from the short axis perpendicularly and diagonally to reach the barrier during the later part of their ChSt as seen here: https://youtu.be/dok0bLKDw1Y?t=53

 

[chuckm]

While the choreographic step sequence isn't worth as many points as other elements, when your top opponents get 3.71 points for theirs and you get 0 points, that's a big point gap.

They also lost another 2.0 points to their opponents on the combination spin (L2 for L/L and L4 for S/E).

 

[dorispulaski]

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