2019 Canadian Nationals Senior Free Dance

[believed]

I still don’t see anything but a cheap attempt at appropriating tragedy to boost a relatively mediocre programme.

I did watch it live and I still find it flat :/

 

[4everchan]

I think Weaver and Poje are sincere in their tribute, but I don't think it achieves the emotional depth that Piper and Paul do. I thought here they also looked a little cautious, thinking through the elements in their first competition of the season. I do find W/P's program, aside from some highlights I enjoy, to be more generic, whereas I think I remember every step of Piper and Paul's.

If I was Piper and Paul I'd head back to training and drill those RD patterns until I could hit the key points in my sleep. That was the real difference here between gold and silver.

very objective and fair analysis. thank you

 

[StephenGfan]

on the bright side of G/P not winning here at least they are finally getting the marks they deserve for Vincent and the point gap between them and W/P now leaves for some real neck and neck exciting nail biting competition now.

 

[BillNeal]

^^ @billneal i had a similar post not sure where in this forum ... similar conclusions... one needs to understand the lyrics too.. which they do.

Found it 4EC : https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?75791-2018-Autumn-Classic-Intl-Free-Dance&p=2192030&viewfull=1#post2192030

 

[rain]

very objective and fair analysis. thank you

The top 3 were really an embarrassment of riches here. Weaver and Poje have a RD that should, by all rights, contend with the top in the world — and yes, I include the French team in that. W/P look better this year than they have in 2 seasons. They had kind of lost their way there for a while, but touring seems to have given them what they needed and they look better than ever.

The ones who have lost their way this season are S/F. I understand she had an injury that hampered their training, but they also seem to have a bit of a mental block. I really hope they can come back revitalized next season.

 

[Skater Boy]

It was so close which is not surprising since GP beat WP last year after Weapo made a big error in the RD/SD. i like both team for different reasons. I know I risk getting beaten tarred and pelted but I actually find Weapo's FD very emotionally exciting and charged. If there are issues about it being genuine come on let's be fair the FRENCH PC team does the same lyrical thing year after year. PC have an emotional connection but oddly like Duhamel and Radford but they are better they can't do romantic despite always doing lyrical. We could say they are not genuine. She let's her hair done with a flowy dress and he plays up his dancer build in tight bottoms and a sleeveless shirt/wife beater/tank topand dramatic stares reminiscient of drama skating. Weapoare not like Madison or drama peolple, they are much more subtle and genuine. Andrew is much more "organic" in his presentation unlike the theatrics of others. I got chills from the FD of weapo. I wouldn't want them to wear a Denis Ten photo on their costumes. But even if you don't se e the Ten is connection it is magical still. Its too bad the world judges have guaranteed the French gold and anamerican team silver. ThatleavesGP and WEapo to fight two Russian teams, two Americans and the Italians.

 

[Skater Boy]

The top 3 were really an embarrassment of riches here. Weaver and Poje have a RD that should, by all rights, contend with the top in the world — and yes, I include the French team in that. W/P look better this year than they have in 2 seasons. They had kind of lost their way there for a while, but touring seems to have given them what they needed and they look better than ever.

The ones who have lost their way this season are S/F. I understand she had an injury that hampered their training, but they also seem to have a bit of a mental block. I really hope they can come back revitalized next season.

True but the Canadians don't need SF right now they have the Danadians as pointed out. I honestly prefer, surprisingly the three top Canadians over the three top Americans but if you put them against each other it is my guess the Americans would win each battle. ie top canadian versus top top american and so on

 

[Heleng]

I’m sad and disappointed beyond words for Piper and Paul. (Well, if I had words, I couldn’t post them here....) Hopefully, their winning the FD will motivate them even more going into 4CC and Worlds. They should take heart that winning nationals doesn’t always determine outcome with international judges (see, e.g., the Shibs last season). And please, I don’t mean to take anything away from W/P, who also performed beautifully with a lovely program. I personally just connect much more with Piper and Paul’s overall style and expression, and I think their Vincent program is out of this world.

 

[litenkyckling]

I would've given G/P the gold, I feel like they both earned it and deserved it. I do like W/Ps FD, and after ACI I thought it was great - but back to back with Vincent I just didn't feel the magic this time round!

 

[rain]

True but the Canadians don't need SF right now they have the Danadians as pointed out. I honestly prefer, surprisingly the three top Canadians over the three top Americans but if you put them against each other it is my guess the Americans would win each battle. ie top canadian versus top top american and so on

I'm assuming to Americans as 1. Hubbell/Donohue 2. Chock/Bates 3. Hawayek/Baker.
Not saying they should, but I think you're right, except for #3. I'm not so sure Fournier-Beaudry will finish below Hawayek/Baker. And I have to say, with everyone's material this year, I prefer the Canadians in each case. Normally I love Hubbell/Donohue, but Romeo and Juliet does them no favours. and G/P have maybe my favourite combo of RD/FD of every team this season.

 

[beebee51]

Kaitlyn and Andrew already had the SOS FD completed before Denis died. It is not a cheap and tacky tribute and obviously had to be called a tribute after Denis was killed. They loved the song when Denis skated to it in his show. SOS was actually Denis’ Free Skate music from last season

 

[dcnative]

I’m going to get roasted for this, but: I feel like this programme is just a generic programme they had and then they stapled the “tribute” motif on afterward. It always comes off as tacky to me. Even if it’s a sincere gesture, it just feels very tabloid and cheap.

If you're talking about Weaver and Poje's program, I'm afraid that I agree with you. Also, I don't think it was technically as good as Piper and Paul's program. Beautifully skated, but where is the substance?

 

[NoNameFace]

I won't lie that I am disappointed about overall results. But it is mostly due to my deeply personal, introspective reaction & response to the Vincent FD from the very first time I saw it - and the irony is that the merit and story told by it matches quite a lot Piper and Paul's position/situation regarding competition, rivarly and a quest for better I feel.

Again, I understand that my point of view about this FD in general may come off as biased, but repeating what I wrote yesterday - I started to search for something more in program & performance put by a team that has skills, abilities and 'top' potential, something that will show me the ID of that team through aesthetic, style chosen, adapted, not appropriated, something which I could understand the team better through and connect behind the concept and visual. While I respect the idea of WeaPo FD, I do feel that the actual creation, realization of it feels flat and is overpowered by the memory of Denis; dedication notion definitely leads instead of creation process happening on the ice for me. Seeing it after Vincent FD, it just does not feel in the same level of an artistic inspiration to me - yes for the soulfulness, fragile emotion conveyed, but as for the actual visualization, design put on the ice it does not match in strenght of the message, person to remember I feel; the program is carried by the figure of late Denis Ten while it should carry the figure by itself strongly and independently as a creative process effect, at least that's my impression. It's just very...neutral while I watch it, I wonder if it needs more mileage to get some depth and a stand on its own, a statement quality that Vincent FD has in every single factor the most important one being the pure creative idea being made, nurtured and realized by skaters themselves.

What sets Vincent FD from WeaPo's FD (and from any other one this season tbh) is the sense of belonging to Piper and Paul from the smallest gesture and every beat of the musical arrangement made especially for them, this incredible fulfillment of them as creators, owners of the program that really speaks for itself in the form of their presence with no need of any spokesperson or additional parties to be referrenced. This FD is an artful, vibrant, living & moving reflection not only of Vincent figure, the artist himself, but also of Piper and Paul being artists in their respective craft - every time watching this program is for me like seeing a canvas being painted, just instead actual paints and brush there are emotions, layers of them, coloured on the ice by human bodies. It's an experience that is even difficult for me to describe, to uncover all the layers, pretty opposite to WeaPo's - while PSquared program is a structure carefully crafted to unveil, WeaPo's one seems centered over one element & fully dedicated to it, making it more straightforward and somewhat easier to convey as a whole. Another level of comparison, the composition of the program versus variety in performance/reflecting the music - I think that rather simplistic design of WeaPo FD and going after musical highs in movement makes sense in terms of a theme chosen, but comparing it to another one it comes off as a bit one-note prettiness we've already seen from them, this time with 'bigger than life' impression added to it imho; Vincent FD OTOH makes a highlight and an unique moment out of simple move/transition, exactly like van Gogh himself made his art about ordinary things, life and people - this familiarity, warmth, delicacy of acoustic guitar added to it makes people watching welcomed and a part of that experience to live through while watching, involving them. 'Skating for the People' saying was never truer & more fitting for any program - it inspired and keeps on inspiring so many people, myself included.

As for the execution today, both teams looked strong to my untrained eye, but the nuance level, originality and surprise factor was definitely on Piper and Paul's side and it is not only about the novelty of choreo/elements or transitions - it is more of HOW they all are fitting together alongside team's presence on the ice, how they develop in action.

On top of my impressions above, I just plainly connected and keep on connecting more, stronger with Vincent FD - for me, it perfectly balances i perfection and tells a story of struggle, obsession, consumation alongside the fragile beauty of art. It touched me deeply and made me seek behind visual or spoken idea. A statement of theirs that is open and welcoming to all people, a rarity. Apologies for the lenght and any babble, it is 3.17 AM and I am still crying.

 

[cell]

Part of the reason why Piper and Paul's program comes across as having more emotional depth is because of the music. The song Kaitlyn and Andrew are skating to is cheesy to the max. The Govardo cover is much more sincere...

 

[Ichatdelune]

I had my hopes up when I saw the scores, but of course the gap from the RD... Just, while W/P's FD is beautiful, it just doesn't have the emotional depth that touches your soul that Piper and Paul's stellar, beautiful, wonderous Starry, Starry Night has. While I have to say that I prefer the original Character Choreo Sequence, it was still beautiful, heartfelt, and just left me shaken, and I've seen that program over and over. It's a masterpiece, a work of art like Vincent van Gogh's paintings. I mean, I couldn't appreciate W/P's performance properly because I was still so touched by Piper and Paul's performance for heaven's sake. Why oh why couldn't G/P be the National champions...

 

[4everchan]

Found it 4EC : https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/showthread.php?75791-2018-Autumn-Classic-Intl-Free-Dance&p=2192030&viewfull=1#post2192030

it's not this one though lol

 

[BillNeal]

I really don't think the overall result is in question. People may have their preferences for each program and a more emotional connection to one or the other. However, Weaver/Poje have the better skating skills (imo G/P were relatively overscored in this component) and are technically better in all their footwork. W/P got higher levels in both step sequences in the FD ( One Foot: OFStL3+OFStM4 vs. OFStL2+OFStM3, Diagonal: DiSt4 vs. DiSt3) which mean that W/P are executing those clean turns and correct edges to earn those levels. Similarly, in the RD, W/P got their levels on the pattern by hitting all their key points while G/P missed some and this has to do with them not performing the correct edges or turns in the section of TR steps evaluated under the corresponding key point. If W/P didn't lose two levels on their spin, they would have won the FD as well.

 

[ancientpeas]

Why would bare naked ladies even need a dress? They’ve chosen a lifestyle, now stick with it.

But they'd still eat kraft dinner .but with really expensive ketchup..dijon ketchup!

 

[Mohacz]

Since the Canadian Nationals predictions game thread is still closed, below please find the results of the Ice Dance.

Canadian Ice Dance Predictions Game Results​

Hello everyone. There were 66 participants in the Canadian Ice Dance Predictions Game. Since the results were quite easy to predict, we have many medalists, 51 to be exact After the RD it seemed all the winners would also gain the maximum number of points, but the surprising 5th place of Carolane and Shane changed the scoring. And if it was not for one single player who won bronze medal, all the participants would have been on the podium.

To sum up, we have 22 gold, 28 silver and 1 bronze medalists. The detailed podium is as follows:

Gold medal with 65 points: alyssamarie, Baron Vladimir, BillNeal, CaroLiza_fan, casualfan, cathlen, Chris Cooper, corynna, Cutting the ice, Dreamer57, gonewiththewind25, Hyena, Koatterce, lovaticcanada, marulia, Mohacz, Nathan13, SnowWhite, Step Sequence4, tabsy, voolfee and Weathergal

Silver medal with 55 points: AidenAiena, apgold, Azcha, BravesSkateFan, cabres, CherylDee, Debrah, DenissVFan, Emilia12, gizmo, invisiblespiral, itofan, jersey1302, LaArdilla, lichi, lutz, Marius, Moxiejan, NoNameFace, npavel, Osmond4gold, Pandicorn, rachno2, SashaJuliaSpins, Seven Sisters, skylark, sweetice and Winry

Bronze medal with 50 points: silver.blades

Congratulation to the winners, to all the participants and see you next week (I’ll be scoring Pairs at the US Nationals and Ice Dance at the Europeans).

 

[Heleng]

I really don't think the overall result is in question. People may have their preferences for each program and a more emotional connection to one or the other. However, Weaver/Poje have the better skating skills (imo G/P were relatively overscored in this component) and are technically better in all their footwork. W/P got higher levels in both step sequences in the FD ( One Foot: OFStL3+OFStM4 vs. OFStL2+OFStM3, Diagonal: DiSt4 vs. DiSt3) which mean that W/P are executing those clean turns and correct edges to earn those levels. Similarly, in the RD, W/P got their levels on the pattern by hitting all their key points while G/P missed some and this has to do with them not performing the correct edges or turns in the section of TR steps evaluated under the corresponding key point. If W/P didn't lose two levels on their spin, they would have won the FD as well.

Confused by this — W/P deserved the win on the basis of their skating skills and footwork in TES even though Piper and Paul received a higher overall TES score in the FD? To me, it appears that their overall win came down to the more subjective elements of the PCS. That’s what disappoints me. I do admit I’m biased (in that I prefer/have more of a connection with one over the other), but aren’t we all?