4 "Unexpected"/"Atypical" World Champions

[Mathman]

Exactly. Liza's programs are quite ordinary, as is her presentation…

Eye of the beholder,Guy.

 

[evangeline]

It's really insulting to technically brilliant skaters to diminish their athletic feats by dismissing them as "unartistic". I'm sure many people think Reynolds' SP or Goebel's 2002 LP or Brandon Mroz's 4Z SP aren't particularly great artistic programs in the grand scheme of things, but there's no denying they made history and will be remembered for that.

How is it insulting? Some skaters have consciously chose to focus on the jumps at the cost of working on their presentation. And that's a normal cost-benefit analysis--there are only so many hours of the day. And those quads are a lot more difficult to land if they are done in a program full of complex choreography, nuanced musical interpretation, and if the skater is skating with beautiful line, posture and attention to detail. So why not call a spade a spade? If it's perfectly fine to criticize skaters like Jason Brown who have clearly worked hard on their presentation but aren't at the top level in terms of their jumps, I don't see why it's somehow insulting to criticize skaters who have made the opposite choice.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Well, it's a matter of opinion - some value artistic excellence more than technical, and vice versa. I fundamentally view figure skating as a sport, so I appreciate skaters who push technical boundaries even if they aren't the most artistically seasoned. Especially given pairs skating has arguably stagnated over the past decade technically speaking.

 

[Li'Kitsu]

I also don't understand why you are bringing Lip into this. She has the worst sportsmanship and the worst personality out of the lot, I don't understand why those have become such attractive qualities since the 2014 champion. :sarcasm:

Not a Julia fan, but I have no idea what makes you think you can make that judgement. And as Sandpiper said, it seriously has nothing to do with her deserving medals or not. What I could see as a factor regarding her personality is her determination and drive, that could help her make it through puberty and any problems with her technique and back to the top.

...and it's pointless to try to convince me or thousands of other people who share my view, otherwise.

I doubt Mathman tried.

 

[evangeline]

Well, it's a matter of opinion - some value artistic excellence more than technical, and vice versa. I fundamentally view figure skating as a sport, so I appreciate skaters who push technical boundaries even if they aren't the most artistically seasoned. Especially given pairs skating has arguably stagnated over the past decade technically speaking.

You particularly emphasize the technical side of the sport, but not everyone has the same opinion as you do. From my years of following this forum, it appears that the skaters who (by general consensus) are best loved and remembered are the skaters who have made significant impact on fans' emotions and appealed to their artistic sensibilities in some way. There's a reason why Gordeeva/Grinkov are remembered much more fondly than Valova/Vasiliev, and it's not because of Gordeeva/Grinkov's quad twist. It's the same reason why Alexei Yagudin tends to be much more beloved than Timothy Goebel. People like different skaters because of different reasons, so I do agree that it's a matter of opinion. If it's a matter of opinion, why police people because of their opinions? There's a big difference between saying "I disagree with your statement that Skater X is unartistic" vs. "You can't say that Skater X is unartistic because they're doing a lot to push the technical boundaries of the sport."

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I think I've acknowledged that D/R have artistic limitations. But my argument is that you don't have to be the most artistic/romantic team out there to be memorable and to give a powerful performance. The awe some people get from an artistic performance is the same awe I get from their technical performance.

Basically, a skater could go out there and land 5 quads but be utterly unartistic, and another skater could attempt no quads but be beautiful to watch, and people will still dismiss the former because of their lack of artistry.

 

[evangeline]

I think I've acknowledged that D/R have artistic limitations. But my argument is that you don't have to be the most artistic/romantic team out there to be memorable and to give a powerful performance. The awe some people get from an artistic performance is the same awe I get from their technical performance.

As I said, different people have different opinions and that's OK.

Basically, a skater could go out there and land 5 quads but be utterly unartistic, and another skater could attempt no quads but be beautiful to watch, and people will still dismiss the former because of their lack of artistry.

And other people will dismiss the latter because of their lack of quads. What's your point?

 

[gkelly]

You particularly emphasize the technical side of the sport, but not everyone has the same opinion as you do.

What's wrong with different strokes for different folks?

Or some of the same folks enjoying different skaters with different strengths?

From my years of following this forum, it appears that the skaters who (by general consensus) are best loved and remembered are the skaters who have made significant impact on fans' emotions and appealed to their artistic sensibilities in some way.

Midori Ito seems to have been much beloved, and her main claim to fame was her jumps.

 

[evangeline]

What's wrong with different strokes for different folks?

Or some of the same folks enjoying different skaters with different strengths?

I never said anything was wrong with different strokes for different folks--in fact, I stated the contrary (e.g. see what I wrote in post #67)

Midori Ito seems to have been much beloved, and her main claim to fame was her jumps.

I think Midori is definitely a big exception, but to me, what made Midori so memorable and delightful to watch (as opposed to someone like Ludmila Nelidina, who also had a 3A) was not only her jumps, but her wonderful effervescence and joy of skating, particularly when she was younger.

 

[Mathman]

Poor Duhamel and Radford. They are the best pairs skaters in the world. Now eveyone is getting on their case because thay are not the best of all time.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Poor Duhamel and Radford. They are the best pairs skaters in the world. Now eveyone is getting on their case because thay are not the best of all time.

Exactly. They've attempted the greatest technical tricks ever displayed at Worlds (a clean SP with throw and SBS 3Z, a close to clean LP with hands down on the throw quad and a wonky spin, but all else great). And yet people are like "Well, they're no V/T, and no B/S, and no S/Z, etc.", and some probably even think Stolbova/Klimov would have beaten them.

 

[4everchan]

People are never happy and they have to let everyone else know about it

Poor Duhamel and Radford. They are the best pairs skaters in the world. Now eveyone is getting on their case because thay are not the best of all time.

 

[rvi5]

...From my years of following this forum, it appears that the skaters who (by general consensus) are best loved and remembered are the skaters who have made significant impact on fans' emotions and appealed to their artistic sensibilities in some way. There's a reason why Gordeeva/Grinkov are remembered much more fondly than Valova/Vasiliev, and it's not because of Gordeeva/Grinkov's quad twist. It's the same reason why Alexei Yagudin tends to be much more beloved than Timothy Goebel...

From my observations on various boards, many (if not most) fans are focused on their personal entertainment. Of course the skaters most loved will be those they consider to be the most entertaining. All else being nearly equal (ie. the technical), the skaters with the best performing skills should win. However, D/R had pushed the technical to a point the judges could not ignore them. If the judges still placed performance ahead of superior technical, that would be the day Figure skating begins travelling down the road to becoming a non-sport (not as if some people don't already believe that). If the ISU hopes to protect Figure skating as a sport, they can not allow the performance aspect to exceed the technical. Viewer's emotions, projecting to the audience, emoting, costumes, music, having the "it factor" ie. stage presence, etc. are characteristics typically valued within the performing arts. I do not recall these terms used in Bobsled, Speed skating, Downhill slalom, etc. etc. etc.

This past season, D/R had taken everyone off guard. Other teams are now going back to the drawing board, hoping to balance D/R's technical and again win based on having a performance advantage. It will be more difficult for D/R to win next season, if the other teams succeed. Still, D/R got what they wanted...a hard earned World champion title. Something they can cherish, even if they may not be remembered world-wide throughout Figure skating history (few are).

 

[MaxSwagg]

Even CBC's reporting, which tried to spin Max's commentary into something it wasn't, in attempts to discredit him and make him seem like a hater. All he said was that their overall skating quality is low...which is true. Sloppy, sleazy reporting just to garner readers. Fortunately, us "haters" will get the last laugh...