Hmm... if Trankov really did make those comments, it really goes beyond disrespect and poor sportsmanship. It doesn't matter what he thinks constitutes artistry, it only matter what the judges think. But his comments can potentially be manipulative, and if it was his intention to manipulate what the judges think, it would be a very nasty low-handed tactic.
BTW, I brought this up in the V/T thread.
Well, since I don't follow V/T, I haven't seen the tons of interviews in which he is criticising D/R.
"publicly in interviews has done nothing but criticize Eric and I"
I heard he said something while commentating on GPF - I've forgotten what - but this seems to suggest there are lots & lots of interviews with him. I think that if we are going to discuss whehter he was right or wrong to say something - we should also be shown what/where/when it is he said exactly? Not just essentially "he's been saying lots of mean & nasty things". That doesn't really give a basis for contstructive discussion.
Hmm... if Trankov really did make those comments, it really goes beyond disrespect and poor sportsmanship. It doesn't matter what he thinks constitutes artistry, it only matter what the judges think. But his comments can potentially be manipulative, and if it was his intention to manipulate what the judges think, it would be a very nasty low-handed tactic.
BTW, I brought this up in the V/T thread.
Just watched the commentary of Trankov - he tried to be polite, but still didn't loose an opportunity to insult D/R a couple of times... In particular, he said the pair figure skating goes in the wrong direction in his opinion (too difficult jumps and throws, but not enough attention to what he calls "pair elements" - like more interesting lifts, transitions and interaction between the partners in the program). He again said that the components of D\R are not deserved. In the end, he said that based on the result of this championship, he is even more confident that he and Tatiana should return to competitions next season and will be be competitive because of their "new" elements (triple flip throw and 3-2-2 jumps) and much higher components!
I don't think Duhamel would say this if Trankov didn't say it… and it doesn't mean to be said "in tons of interviews" Once if enough to be disrespectful. I heard as well about the GPF and like you, didn't hear exactly what but heard it was negative… if anyone has that quote, fine but I would give the benefit of the doubt to Duhamel here, simply because it wouldn't make any sense to invent such a story.
So, I'm just trying to find out what we are talking about here - it's the GPF comment and that's it?
You have been given the translated quote by Trankov from Shanghai last week just two posts above yours. Was there a GPF in Shanghai recently or do I actually need to spell out: 2015 World Figure Skating Championships?
Note: The translator specifically used the world "again" in the quote, which indicates in English language, something happened more than once.
Javier Fernandez was not unexpected/atypical World champion, neither Tuktamysheva. Pairs and ice dance were rather unexpected to me.
a few thoughts.
1) it's not fair to say that D/R are not artists… they are creative in their own genre. Radford even composes music which they have used in one of their SP. There are different kinds of artistry in this world…. the Russians are amazing in their search for beautiful positions and aesthetic skating. It's however not necessarily what everyone wants to see… it's been the tradition for years however… so how following tradition is more creative than breaking it? For me, an artist is someone who seeks to further themselves and reach for new heights… which is exactly what D/R are doing, in their own way.
Regarding criticism from other athletes: I agree with Duhamel here. Being good sports requires some diplomacy… If Trankov really thinks his points are valid, he doesn't need to put them in the public eye…. it's disrespectful. Often athletes do this because they feel pressure… perhaps with all their hard work D/R have managed to create a bit of fear among other pairs…. fear usually is the motive for such disrespectful comments…. and to your point about "there's nothing to criticize in V/T 's skating.. well… I just did saying that in my very humble opinion, they are simply following a tradition and do not bring anything new to the sport…. Duhamel could have said that herself if she thought that (I do not know whether she would agree or not with my opinion)…… but chose to be classy.
and your last line…. how do you know who they are and what they are interested in creating? I actually felt very emotional watching their SP…. if one understands (and maybe you do but I won't assume that you do or don't) the lyrics of their SP song, the program fits the words perfectly well and brings a unique intertextuality to their skating.
I don't see how Duhamel and Radford could have been unexpected. All the teams that were ahead of them retired after the Sochi Olympics, and in the 2014-15 season they won every event they entered, essentially without any serious rival.
Dance, I think it was a toss-up between the top three.
You make good points respectfully which I admire. I don't know if V&M are just following a tradition. It's a standard of pairs skating that was established, but the stories a pair chooses to tell can be effective or not. Just as there are standards of what constitutes a clean jump, there are standards for pairs skating - matching lines and positions constitutes a great deal of a pairs' aesthetics. It somewhat resembles the argument that brother-sister teams don't make good teams, because pairs skating is "supposed" to be about the romantic bond between a man and a woman - D&R aren't your typical romantic team, but are they telling their stories and themes effectively and reaching many people's hearts? I don't know... You say you are moved by their skating, so that's a good thing. I definitely like skaters that 99% of fans today don't care for, and I'm sad they're not recognize more often.
However, there is the situation that a large number of people do not like D&R's skating and style.
I've seen some comments by Duhamel where she is hurt that others don't like their skating or even want them to be World Champions. Now that it is very understandable that she is hurt by that. But they choose to be different. Being different from others results in being misunderstood, judged harshly, and requiring thicker skin. If they aren't the most aesthetically pleasing pair, they know that and went for technical difficulty. They have been successful, but there are people who don't like the direction the sport has taken.
It's hard to blame them. When you've seen the sheer beauty of Berezhnaya and Sikharulidze, G&G, M&D, Protopopovs, etc., it's not just a tradition. They were all differently beautiful in their own way. Is it because they're staunch traditionalists who only favor a certain standard of pairs skating or something more?
It's hard to accept musculature and supremely difficult elements executed to elevator muzak with little chemistry if you saw those past programs.
I found Russian commentators and skaters to be very loquacious and vocal. They like to debate. Maybe some cultures aren't used to that - open criticisms (constructive or otherwise). Some cultures value sweeping things under the carpet and just accepting whatever status quo opinion is imposed on them. Some cultures only like to talk about the good and ignore everything else.
You say they're creative. How many people have said their programs are a thing of extraordinary beauty and emotion? I don't know the answer, but I imagine it could be what I'm thinking. An attempt at creativity is nice but whether it is effective or not is another story.
what you call elevator muzak is either Radford's own composition of in this year's short, one of the most celebrated French Canadian singer, who is literally bringing people to tears when she sings. Her names is Ginette Reno, the song is called "un peu plus haut" You also put in the same category many Russian teams… for me, they aren't at all the same… some were of exquisite beauty and connection like G&G, some were in my eyes extremely creative with bringing new moves like M&D and some were followers of the traditional and extremely beautiful skating like B&S and V&T… that's how I personally react to their programs … I don't see much creativity in the approach they follow. I don't see them pushing the envelope either….
There's a whole topic about Men's skating in some other thread saying that nobody is skating clean anymore… well… that's simply understood because the guys are taking risks with their jumps… trying to improve the technical standard… For someone who has watched the sport for decades, it's so exciting that we are in a period when we see so many different new jumps attempts or combos… or to see that the jumps are not all jam packed in the first minute of a FP as skaters are trying to max out the CoP…. all of this makes it interesting…. and perhaps it is not as cleanly skated and as beautiful as let's say 5-6 years ago in men's skating but we are going somewhere… it's a cycle….
I remember all the criticism B&E received for not being as elegant as the Russian pairs…. they really struggled in their days. But, they were, like D&R increasing difficulty, not on SBS jumps but on some pair elements like twists and lifts and spirals… they really pushed the sport forward and if still nowadays, I can easily say that they were never my favourite couple, especially with G&G being around then, we still owe them for their own creative way to bring the sport forward. D&R are making waves. People recognize the need to have strong individual skaters as pairs skaters… Canada does that quite well… (Look out for S&B… Seguin lands 3Lz and is also a single skater…they could make waves in the future) so IMHO, there are more than one way of pushing the envelope. Artistry and creativity is not just about smooth skating to a beautiful and emotionally charged piece of music…. it's also developing the sport and there are many different ways to do so, and I just wish people looked at the global picture…. far down the road, we will be happy to see how it is possible to win throwing 4S or because of amazing SBS jumps or simply because of flawless and pure execution… I believe there's room for all of that, and that everyone should respect different approaches…. I don't think it's fair to say that because they don't skate with a romantic connection, or because she is extremely muscular, that it's not worthy of being world champions…. It's a sport… They are athletes… Athletes can be fit no? Do figure skaters always need to project love on the ice? Oh lord… please NO there's enough soap opera on TV it's cultural, fair enough… and people from different backgrounds have different tastes. I simply wish for more respect about the achievements a team is making out there.
I found Russian commentators and skaters to be very loquacious and vocal. They like to debate. Maybe some cultures aren't used to that - open criticisms (constructive or otherwise). Some cultures value sweeping things under the carpet and just accepting whatever status quo opinion is imposed on them. Some cultures only like to talk about the good and ignore everything else.
You say they're creative. How many people have said their programs are a thing of extraordinary beauty and emotion? I don't know the answer, but I imagine it could be what I'm thinking. An attempt at creativity is nice but whether it is effective or not is another story.
Yes, Meagan did take Maxim's comments quite personally - but honestly, who wouldn't? It hurts to have your competitors publicly criticize you over and over again. D/R are an amazing team - they've worked so hard to achieve what they have, but instead of acknowledging their efforts to push the technical envelope and improve the sport, they are receiving so much criticism.
last year SP was radford own music..Why didn't Radford skate to the actual Ginette Reno song? He chose his own composition which reminded me of Nancy Kerrigan's Mark Militano renditions of popular music. At least in Nancy's era, there wasn't the option of skating to preppy music with vocals, but it can be done now.