Alina Zagitova announces break from figure skating competition

[zounger]

This thread become a TSL puppet thread it looks. Well done.

As for Alina huge, huge respect going in all possible competitions after Olympics, under tremendous pressure and unfortunate circumstances. Sam-L was asking if she is one of the greatest? For me even for that reason she is. Take your rest (well deserved), evaluate things, enjoy life. When you will feel ready to come back, you will make a lot of people happy. You make them happy even now.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

This thread become a TSL puppet thread it looks. Well done.

As for Alina huge, huge respect going in all possible competitions after Olympics, under tremendous pressure and unfortunate circumstances. Sam-L was asking if she is one of the greatest? For me even for that reason she is. Take your rest (well deserved), evaluate things, enjoy life. When you will feel ready to come back, you will make a lot of people happy. You make them happy even now.

And many others unhappy, it seems. Unless they have already forgotten what they are saying now, by then. And even, started to love Alina Zagitova as much as we do, forgiving her "obvious, enormous wrong" of being a successful and loyal Eteri-girl. Then they may say : "Perhaps I did not always love [her] so well as I do now. But in such cases as these, a good memory is unpardonable. This is the last time I shall ever remember it myself." ;-)

 

[eaglehelang]

And this isn't limited to Russia and Eteri. I remember an interview with David Wilson, where he sounded sour for not getting a share of Yuna's contract, because he and Brian made her a star. And she was paying them hourly rates.

David Wilson charges a flat rate for his choreography, he does not charge hourly rates. He said it himself when asked by the press in 2018. This was during the hu ha when Evgenia moved over to Orser.

Even 30% is a huge amount from skaters. Even for state funded skaters/athletes.
If I remember correctly, in China it's 20% of atlhete endorsements go to the Association/Federation/government. As everyone knows, China's athletes are fully state/government funded.

For my country's fully funded athletes, coaches get paid a salary by the government. Coaches dont get a cut of athletes endorsements, some of the Associations do. Athletes get to keep all their prize money(for sports that have prize money), incentives from government if they medal at major competitions.

So, the main point I think is the high percentage for Russia figure skating, 30%.
There are North American coaches who take a percentage, but it has been a point of contention that can cause student & coach to split. Like Frank Carroll & Michelle Kwan. It seems a male skater under Frank Carroll was not happy abt Frank taking 10% of his earnings.
And didnt Patrick Chan split with his US coach cos she wanted a % of his earnings?

 

[Autumn Leaves]

My only point throughout this discussion was that we don't know and cannot know what the specific agreement between Alina and her coaches are. TSL is not a reliable source.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

In France too, Brian Joubert split with Véronique Guyot because she wanted, I think, 10% of his earnings. There I think it was for herself, but I think too, though funded by the French federation, she used to train him individually on non-funded extra time (but with free use of the rink, if I understand well).

 

[nussnacker]

There was an article that calculated all the earnings of Team Tutberidze within the last year from the prize money of their students.
And it was like 12k per year per coach, which is like 1k per month.
That's literally nothing, especially in Moscow.

 

[Mishaminion]

And many others unhappy, it seems. Unless they have already forgotten what they are saying now, by then. And even, started to love Alina Zagitova as much as we do, forgiving her "obvious, enormous wrong" of being a successful and loyal Eteri-girl. Then they may say : "Perhaps I did not always love [her] so well as I do now. But in such cases as these, a good memory is unpardonable. This is the last time I shall ever remember it myself." ;-)

Some people don't realise how good something really was until it is gone

 

[Tavi...]

I'm trying to draw the comparison to how it is in North America. Eteri, like Brian and Raf, are coaching olympic level skaters. Brian and Raf are elite coaches who make more than lower level coaches in the same country. The same with Eteri. The previous coaches, while they did contribute, did not bring the results. That is what sets the coaching levels apart and that is indicated by the salaries. A skater doesn't go to Brian and Raf and say "I'm just going to pay you as much as my previous less known coaches and not your asking wage because they contributed to my skating as well and therefore you should make the same amount". The coaches in North America do have a guarantee: they are guaranteed to be paid their asking wage regardless of how a skater does; if the skaters are not happy, the can leave. The coaches under the Russian system are guaranteed to be paid whatever the fed pays them, knowing that they will also get a percentage of successes. The only thing that is not guaranteed is the skaters' success, and that portion of the coaches' income. But this is something the coaches agree to as well. The skaters can leave if they're not happy. Alina is not retired yet, and she has not left the Sambo-70 school; she choses to remain with her coaches, the school, the federation, and therefore the agreement.

As for the bolded part, we don't know what the allocation is. Just like we don't know the percentage breakdown of what a North American skater pays. But we do know that North American skaters pay an hourly wage. Just was we know that all Alina's free trainings and resources came from somewhere; someone paid for it and it wasn't her. 40% of Alina's earnings this year is a lot, but she has only been bringing in earnings since 2016. That's 3 years, but she's been skating for 10. I think if you do the math you'll find that she's not paying more per year than elite NA skaters under big name coaches; like in the west, skaters are free to move to cheaper coaches. She also had the liberty of being able to skate without the financial toll for the first 7 years, and no one knew she was going to be Olympic champion. For all we know, she wouldn't be where she is without that school. This is the system that worked for Alina, and she was always free to use the North American system but she didn't. There is no 100% ideal situation, but this is the one that gave her all her current success, and is the one she chose.

I know exactly what parallel you were trying to draw. I just have have a different view of things.

It’s a bit difficult to debate because not only don’t I know the specific arrangements between Alina and her coaches but I know little to nothing about how the Russian government funds skating or how much of her skating-related earnings a successful skater pays to the government, and for how long. That said, it seems to me you’re conflating two things: the benefits of public education and how much a coach should be able to directly benefit from the success of on of her skaters. They’re two very different issues in my mind.

Again, without knowing whether Russian coaches are state employees it’s hard to say much. But in the US, coaches are independent contractors. Even in demand coaches with national level skaters may not have predictable earnings, may pay a percentage of their fees to the rink, are unlikely to have employer funded benefits such as sick leave and health care, and probably pay income taxes at a higher (self employed) rate. So looking in isolation at Frank Carroll’s current hourly rate, for example ($180, or about triple what an average coach charges) and comparing it to how much an Eteri or a Mishin is paid by the Fed doesn’t tell the whole story. Moreover, when you talk about hourly wages: the US and Russian training systems appear to be quite different: my understanding is that even elites in Russia do a lot of their training in groups, which isn’t necessarily true in the US.

 

[el henry]

I am finding the interchange between @colormyworld and@tavi to be enlightening. So as far as what is constructive for “us”, I am finding it constructive.:yes:

 

[thesoundofice]

I must say I'm not surprised at all by her decision. I'm not a big fan of Eteri even if I respect her. I think that there are many other aspects that led Alina to press the "pause" button. Nobody's going to take away her huge achievements, maybe only another athlete of her level could understand what it means to deal with this. Once you've reached the top, then you may need other goals in your life. If Alina is truly happy and wants to move on and explore other ways to express her talent, so be it! I wish her the brightest future. She seems very mature for her age, I think she'll soon be able to control her career.

 

[TontoK]

I am finding the interchange between @colormyworld and@tavi to be enlightening. So as far as what is constructive for “us”, I am finding it constructive.:yes:

I think Eteri, Plushenko, and Tarasova are operating secret accounts and have carried things over to GS.

And, it's time to confess. I'm really Yagudin. But, deep down, you already knew that.

Merry Christmas, dear friend. Off for a cruise in a few days, so much brotherly love to you and family.

 

[nussnacker]

I think Eteri, Plushenko, and Tarasova are operating secret accounts and have carried things over to GS.

And, it's time to confess. I'm really Yagudin. But, deep down, you already knew that.

Merry Christmas, dear friend. Off for a cruise in a few days, so much brotherly love to you and family.

Yag, my man! I'm also going to blow my cover! I'm actually... Plushenko!
Let's put everything behind us and be best friends forever and ever!

 

[Mathman]

I am Brian Boitano.

 

[el henry]

I think Eteri, Plushenko, and Tarasova are operating secret accounts and have carried things over to GS.

And, it's time to confess. I'm really Yagudin. But, deep down, you already knew that.

Merry Christmas, dear friend. Off for a cruise in a few days, so much brotherly love to you and family.

If only you were Mr. Yagudin, my friend, he would not be spouting such horrific and homophobic nonsense. But that is off-topic.

What is never off topic is to wish you and your family the merriest of Christmases. And a holiday cruise! I am most jealous. :agree:

 

[TontoK]

Yag, my man! I'm also going to blow my cover! I'm actually... Plushenko!
Let's put everything behind us and be best friends forever and ever!

All is forgiven and behind us. I no longer look down on you as I did on the podium at Salt Lake City, when I was on top, but you also won a medal of some sort. If I'm remembering correctly? You were somewhere below me on that podium, right? But maybe I'm confusing that with another competition where I was on top. But no big deal either way.

As you say, Best friends now!

 

[Casual]

Alina at her best is probably the best conditioned athlete I've ever seen in figure skating. Her stamina is astounding, and her Olympic program is one of the all time best things I've ever seen on ice. I never get tired of watching it. I wonder if anyone realizes how difficult it is to put all of your jumps at the end of a program? For me she is one of the greatest of all time.

Best conditioned, maybe; but to me her skating looked ugly, unpolished, and devoid of musicality. Utterly forgettable "champion".

 

[Casual]

Here's an article in Russian about this drama. Author: Vasiliy Utkin, Russian sports journalist & founder of TV program "Soccer Club". https://echo.msk.ru/blog/partofair/2555805-echo/

The gist:

"Team Tutberidse, via their rabid fan supporters, is working behind the scenes to get Tatyana Tarasova fired and blacklisted; just as they previously managed to fire and blacklist from any work in sports journalism another beloved figure skating commentator Elena Voytsekhovskaya* (*no idea who that was), when Voytsekhovskaya said something that Tutberidse didn't like."

"There's an evil active portion of Tutberidse fan supporters, the "clack", which is as evil as Tolkien's Morgoth* (*that's boss of Sauron of Mordor)." (LOL!)

"The reason they want Tarasova fired is because she has independent opinions and does not kow-tow to Tutberidse."

"Zagitova left permanently. She won everything, she lost, it's the end."

Just, wow. The guy doesn't mince any words!

 

[[email protected]]

Vasily Utkin is the most controversial sports journalist in Russia who puts in shade even Guberniev. He was kicked out of all the stations that he worked with. The most famous case was when he was removed from the World Cup commenting after the very first game. He abused Iceland namely the people of Iceland.

He is still popular among some folks who find his abusive remaks about athletes, sports officials, and media people as "telling the truth in the direct Russian style". However, until now his activity was strictly limited to football. He is zero in figure skating and whatever he writes about figure skating has zero value.

 

[kwanatic]

Re: Alina's break/retirement
Not too surprised. It's been a struggle for her most of this season. It sucks that her competitive career only spans about 3.5 years but the fact she managed to win every major title there is in that span of time is very impressive.

I do think 17 years old is far too young to be done (if she is done) but, again, she's accomplished everything. I'd have loved to seen her stay in and grow more because she had so many things she could have improved upon, but life is more than just this sport. To be among the top in Russia takes two or three times more effort than everyone else...and for someone who has won everything and is struggling to find that drive and motivation, I can't imagine what that feels like. It's like, "what's the point?" I don't doubt she's still capable of skating well--she managed to do it a few times this season. However it seemed like more of a struggle for her this year and in order for her to crack the top 3, she has to be at her absolute best...and even then it may not be enough. That's exhasting and disheartening at the same time.

There are so many opportunities for Alina...she has a massively bright future. Do I think she'll compete again? Personally, I don't think so. Taking a break in this climate is basically like throwing in the towel. Things are moving way too fast...you get off of the train, you'll likely never catch back up to it. Skating is all about momentum. As more and more skaters emerge (as they are sure to do especially in Russia) it lessens her chance of getting back into a top 3 spot.

I wish her the best. Alina was never my favorite skater but I was always very impressed by her stamina in her debut season and her ability to rise to the occasion at the majority of the big events. Alina definitely made an impact, raised the bar and changed the sport...and as a skater, there's nothing more gratifying than that.

 

[Edwin]

I am not so sure about Alina having no chance.

Anything could happen to the Anna, Aleksandra or Alyona. There is no 2005 born 'competition' besides Kanysheva, whose 'threat' to the older skaters from Sambo-70 still has to be established.

Depending on the results of Russian National Championships in a week and how the scores fall, and the resulting assignments (pure or tainted by 'politics'), there could be some retirements amongst Alina's nearest competitors for spots next season.

It's good for her to take some time off, recharge, make up her mind, discover something in life, do shows in Russia and Japan, apart from trying to learn new elements and perhaps return to the competitive front next Novogorsk development camp.