2017 GP NHK Free Dance
- Thread starter dorispulaski
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Of the top 3, I have to say that Anna and Luca's FD is the most intruiguing to me. Yes, Tessa and Scott are very talented and flashy and Hubbell and Donahue are physical and sexy. But Anna and Luca put forth a beautiful, classic performance that embodies everything I love in ice dancing. They somewhat embody the passion and heart of Papadakis and Cizeron in more traditional way. This may be my favorite FD of the season.
Exactly like Anyasnake, I did not watch MR (the movie) and I was also told not to watch it.
Obviously, MR free dance combines several scenes of the movie. Some people (who watched the movie) feel like V/M's interpretation across those various scenes is too homogeneous compared to the movie. Do you guys share this feeling or not? Once again, I am not able to judge this myself.
The question is this one: Let's say I am a judge and I already watched the movie. Should I expect Tessa and Scott to stick to the spirit of the various movie sequences? Or should I simply consider these sequences as a free vehicle for Tessa ans Scott to make their own interpretation? Honestly, it's hard to say.
You say Virtue/Moir choice for FD is quite risky especially this warhorse music but I think this music choice is still fine especially if you compare it to "Stillness/Oddudua", P/C FD music last season! "Stillness/Oddudua" was definitely a crazy choice in many ways. I remember the negative reactions last year during the Grand Prix season by P/C fans themselves. But in the end, P/C managed to sublime this music first in Ostrava and then in Helsinki with a new WR and a standing ovation. Tessa and Scott are so gifted. They can sublime the MR music. They already sublime it but we know they can do it better.
I am glad I did not watch the movie hence I can get off from it and focus on Tessa and Scott performance which was really great yesterday. I had to wake up at 5:00am to watch it and I really enjoyed it hence no regret to wake up that early! What a great moment. Their technical skills are just fab. Now, there is room for improvement in the interpretation and I guess they will work on that aspect in the next weeks.
Go ahead and watch the movie Moulin Rouge anyone who hasn't seen it or isn't watching it for some reason or other, if that's what you want to do! It's informative...... Plus it's very derivative anyway (La Boheme and La Traviata and others)- it's very much a postmodern arrangement of familiar tropes.
V/M were fantastic, no doubt about that.
My second favourite FD belongs to Danish team. Beautiful choreography, slightly different take on "Spanish " music, flowing, sharp movements, great presentation. They have never captured me before (let's not discuss his physical appearance
) Can we give them bye to the Olympics, please?
S/K were hot mess. I cannot believe that this scored 5 points more than Danish FD. He stumbled, their posture is horrible and all the dramatic gestures don't sell it for me.
C/L bored me. I found their program plain, slow and empty. And his costume was awful. I hate suspenders on handsome men to start with. I know, it is La vita e bella, but still... At least the color of the shirt should be different. He really doesn't match Anna.
H/D FD is very different than the rest of the field. I like it, but the second part needs more work on expression. They have to decide what mood are they selling.
My second favourite FD belongs to Danish team. Beautiful choreography, slightly different take on "Spanish " music, flowing, sharp movements, great presentation. They have never captured me before (let's not discuss his physical appearance
) Can we give them bye to the Olympics, please?S/K were hot mess. I cannot believe that this scored 5 points more than Danish FD. He stumbled, their posture is horrible and all the dramatic gestures don't sell it for me.
C/L bored me. I found their program plain, slow and empty. And his costume was awful. I hate suspenders on handsome men to start with. I know, it is La vita e bella, but still... At least the color of the shirt should be different. He really doesn't match Anna.
H/D FD is very different than the rest of the field. I like it, but the second part needs more work on expression. They have to decide what mood are they selling.
Oh I hate Ewan Macgregor's vocals. But Moulin Rouge passes as pure spectacle........and what it is as a piece of film making and of staging of song is interesting. But if you are looking for a film with heart and integrity (although Moulin Rouge tells you all the way through that that is what it is) and also decent vocals, best to look elsewhere.....
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- Sep 21, 2017
I must say for the first time V/M's Moulin Rouge has given me chills, so they are getting there. The lifts, recycled as they may be, are second to none.
The Gadbois team has made excellent decisions re H/D in my opinion. The want to challenge the Shibs, so they have to do something that the Americans can't, which is selling that sexy, sensual vibe. The first part of the FD is especially brilliant, they almost become that rhythm and music. Well done on the second place, hope they make it to the final.
The Gadbois team has made excellent decisions re H/D in my opinion. The want to challenge the Shibs, so they have to do something that the Americans can't, which is selling that sexy, sensual vibe. The first part of the FD is especially brilliant, they almost become that rhythm and music. Well done on the second place, hope they make it to the final.
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- Oct 14, 2017
He ruins it.I havent see the movie, and If they sing like that in it, I am not gonna to
IN v/d program , the best parts are the ones when nobody sings.I SEE conection to the music, then, when Mcgregor starts to sing i just give up And I dont see any. The worst is the last part when they sing together(?)
Their repackaging since they came to Gadbois is incredible. Both them, in 2015, and also P/C in 2014, when they moved in Montreal have just been transformed, and most importantly both those teams had good basic skating skills before but their technicality today is just mind-blowing. I'd say the same for V/M too actually.
I don't know what exactly they do over there, but this is some machine that works way too good. They must works their fundamentals SS every single session.
I wonder who is going to train in Gadbois when V/M left after the season actually.
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- Mar 12, 2007
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OK I've watched it now and I'm not getting the H/D love for this FD. It's one note and that note wasn't nearly enough to have me re-routing to the drugstore! But glad they have such passionate fans ( 
see what I did there?). Doesn't seem to have the complexity of the other top teams.
see what I did there?). Doesn't seem to have the complexity of the other top teams.
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- Jun 21, 2003
OK I've watched it now and I'm not getting the H/D love for this FD. It's one note and that note wasn't nearly enough to have me re-routing to the drugstore! But glad they have such passionate fans (
I think part of the reason that Hubbell and Donohue have such passionate fans is because of their backstory and struggle. They were always stuck behind Davis and White, then the Shibutanis and Chock and Bates. In the last two years Hubbelll and Donohue were poised to break through, but a couple of little errors at the worst possible moments snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Their hard-won successes are wonderful.
I think part of the reason that Hubbell and Donohue have such passionate fans is because of their backstory and struggle. They were always stuck behind Davis and White, then the Shibutanis and Chock and Bates. In the last two years Hubbelll and Donohue were poised to break through, but a couple of little errors at the worst possible moments snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. Their hard-won successes are wonderful.
This, and the fact that their skating skills and musicality are top notch, they have a terrific connection, and their lines are absolutely gorgeous. Little acrobatics for these two, but--to quote the BESP guys--"plenty of marvelous skating." I've been a fan of theirs for years. They are fighters--Madi skated pretty much the entire 2013-14 season through excruciating pain from a torn labrum--and I hope this season the judges will finally reward all their hard work. Go Madi and Zach!!!
:luv17:The FDs commented by Charlie White on the Olympic channel are available here : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOyQtuMFNZ2GR4CyIWMn7iw/videos
Very good for those who wants to understand the scores better.
Very good for those who wants to understand the scores better.
And the British commentators were saying they were blown away by H/D's FD and preferred it to V/M's program. I think smoothness masks some of the complexity. Complexity is in the thought that went into this program, while the eventual presentation is made sure to be smooth and easy.
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- Nov 8, 2017
I suppose that liking or disliking the music will always be a factor, for everyone, and also for the judges, even though they should be more concerned with other things. I have tremendous respect for what Piper Gilles and Paul Poirier are doing, but I feel like muting the speakers after 15 seconds. Just as with P/C's FD in their first year as seniors. Super daring and authentic and true to who they are and what they want to express, I am absolutely a fan of that attitude. But the music just makes me feel like I have a severe tooth-ache and cannot find any comfortable way of sitting or standing or lying. So do I enjoy watching these programs? Not exactly...
So how do judges deal with such stuff...? Can they turn off their dislike of whatever comes through the speakers?
I did see Moulin Rouge when it played in theatres, and I loved it. It's Baz Luhrmann, it's over the top melodrama but it's soooo delightful and super well done. I do like Ewan McGregor, and I found both his and Nicole Kidman's singing stunning. I have both the soundtracks and love many of the songs. I like both versions of Come What May, and have never had any problem with Ewan's singing.
So for me, Tessa and Scott's choice is great.
I was an Ice Dance fan as a teenager when the Duchesnay's and Marina Klimova and Sergei Ponomarenko were doing wonderful stuff. When the technical requirements came (and my life changed while going to live on my own), I lost interest. Acrobatics are great, but Pairs was for that, in my view.
I was sucked into Ice Dance again less than two years ago when someone posted the video of Gaby and Guillaume's FD at Europeans, the Building a Home one. I was hooked from the moment I saw it. Watched it over and over and over and over again, and immediately reposted it on my timeline with the caption: "The Gods of Ice Dance have incarnated." Since then I'm back into Ice Dance, and a die-hard fan of P/C.
So I did not see or hear all the other Ice Dance versions of MR, this is the first for me (shall I count my blessings?)
I personally would never expect someone to play out the movie in a 4-minute skating program. It seems (and in my not-so-humble opinion, IS) completely insane. There's no way you can ever do such a thing, so trying to do that is dooming yourself to failure.
The only thing you can do is let it inspire you and make a great ice dance program with it. Which can be anything, as far as I'm concerned, and does not at all need to have ANY reference to the movie. Anyway, you have to choose only 4 minutes out of a whole soundtrack, so your choice will most probably miss many of the key moments of the movie.
I have absolutely no competence to talk about any technical aspect of Ice Dance, so I cannot say anything about that. But as far as the performance goes, I think Tessa and Scott (or should I say Marie-France and Patrice? I don't know who all had input in the choreography) did a very good job in creating a FD that has taken some inspiration from the movie, but doesn't bother too much about it and focuses on a great FD program.
There are many acrobatic elements that are simply mind-blowing. The first lift (if that's called a lift) for example: I cannot wrap my head around how Tessa can manage to jump backwards onto Scott at the end of a rotation. It's next to impossible, and she makes it look as if some magnet simply pulls her onto Scott.
I have tremendous respect for that, and I suppose that that is a quantifiable element that gets them points. And rightly so.
Now what I don't find a good choice is the music cut. I like the songs one by one, but I cannot understand why those pieces were chosen. It simply makes no sense for me. Mostly the finales of the songs are the strongest moments, and none of those are in the score Tessa and Scott dance to. They open with the intro of "The Show Must Go On", which then, just after Jim Broadbent stops talking, cuts off instead of starting the song. We then jump to the beginning of "El Tango de Roxanne", just after the intro of that song. Then, halfway into that song, we all of a sudden cut to the intro and the beginning of "Come What May", film version. That's three times a start of a song and no culmination or finale. I'm sorry, but I honestly can't see why you would give yourself such a handicap if you have only 4 minutes to WOW the hell out of an audience and a judge panel. Who clearly are going to be influenced by the excitement your musical score is giving you for free. Taking the intro of TSMGO and sticking it to ETDR seems to me like an idea that sounded super on paper, but that, once you've tried it a few times, should have given the experience that in fact, it doesn't work in reality the way it was supposed to, and hence: waste bin. The intro of ETDR is nice and enticing by itself, why not go with that?
Anyway, that's all water under the bridge at the moment, they have chosen to do it this way so that's what they have.
When I look at their program, I am very much impressed by their ease and mastery and by the way they can give a clean performance, very nicely readable, no clusterfck as some other programs tend to create in all their goodwill, each element beautifully presented one after the other, very very skilled performers who are totally at home on a stage. And in an ice rink, obviously.
But, and for me that's a huge but, there is almost no eye-contact between the two. In any case, extremely little. I may be super influenced by P/C's tremendous amount of eye-contact, but let's face it: Gaby and Guillaume did not get those gold medals because they had nice costumes. They are a phenomenon, and they do something to the audience and the judges that gives emotion, that brings something different - and gets them the high scores. Ignoring that this is happening and stubbornly doing the thing you always did just because that is who you are may be the best thing you can do, but don't complain if you don't get the same marks as P/C. For me, that lack of eye-contact is simply missing in Tessa and Scott’s dance. I cannot understand why they don't do it, because the MR music and story sure begs for a very intimate relationship to be expressed. Especially in SCI, I saw more a Tessa Virtue Show than a couple. Without implying that she is a bad person or anything ridiculous of the sort (I'm sure she is a wonderfully lovely human being), what I saw was someone upstaging her partner for the biggest part of those 4 minutes. I found it less poignant in NHK, but still, the choreography is done in such a way that Tessa gets all time and space to show off, and that Scott has an almost impossible task to be an equal presence, an equal protagonist. At SCI, one of the commentators (sorry for not knowing all those names yet - one of the B.Esp guys) said that "it's the man's job to project the woman, and he does that impeccably, but she is some woman to project!". Well, that's one way of saying it I suppose. But hello? "Project the woman"??? In 2017??? What century do these guys live in???
Feel free to project all you like, but let me give you a very simple prediction based on the acknowledgement of the reality of today (and a blissful ignorance of yesterday): "projecting a woman" is not going to score you any points anymore because today "the man's job" is to bloody well skate and dance his heart out just as much as the woman. Full stop.
And while we're at it: when on earth is the ISU going to accept that we are in the 21st century and that male-male and female-female couples are a thing. They exist, they are normal and fine, and they're not going to go away. Get used to it. Let them skate for god's sake. Who cares what gender they are. It's about two people skating together. Let them decide who they prefer to perform with. What's it to you anyway.
So in total, for me, the program as a whole is not as awe-inspiring as Gaby and Guillaume's. And that has nothing to do with the music choice per se. What I find is that Tessa and Scott did not cut the songs to their advantage, that's all. I'm also not impressed with Gaby and Guillaume's choice. It's very beautiful music, but man, speaking of something that we've heard enough times already... But what Gaby and Guillaume do with that music makes me fall in love with it again. It's the combination of the music with the skilled skating and the ballet or theatre dancing that brings something totally unique. Because they are such super skilled skaters, they can do something to dance that theatre dancers cannot. They can pretend to float and not have to move their feet to go through space. And then they bring exquisite dance. That mixture creates magic.
I know that Tessa is a very good dancer. And they both are super skaters. But somehow, Tessa and Scott don't bring the same elements together and hence do not create the magic. The alchemy does not work if you don't bring the correct ingredients. And somehow, with all their talent and skill and experience and technique and acrobatics, they miss some of the ingredients that turn Gaby and Guillaume's movements into gold.
Let's see if the judges agree with me.
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- Oct 26, 2016
Perfectly said, Gotlev! I have not watched MR and cannot say anything about it. I think though that it suits Tessa and Scott's showmanship to a T. but I also never feel the magic that G/G bring forth each time I watch them. I'm awed by the complex acrobatic lifts of the Canadians but it's not something that goes beyond the wow-factor. It is skillful and expertly placed to add to the bold sensuality but for me they project to an audience in a way performers do. I don't feel the incredible connection that G/G live out on the ice. They create magic between themselves and it is, in the end, what we, as spectators, are privileged to witness. It is authentic. It is NOT meant as a slight toward V/M. Many people love them and rightly so. To me, they just don't compare beyond their technical skills.
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- Oct 14, 2017
Agree with you Gotlev..but I think choice of music for French was not a bad move. Skaters dont have to choose completely unknown music to impress the public. Moonligh Sonata in a good known piece of music overall, but it is not choosed very often in FS. IT is very rarely actually
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