2014-2015 GPF Free Dance 12/13

[sisinka]

Interpretation / Timing: The personal and creative translation of the rhythm, character and content of music to movement on ice.

1. W&P 9.54 points,
2. C&B 9.00 points,
3. P&C 8.96 points,
4. I&Z 8.57 points,
5. S&S and G&P 8.18 points

Maia and Alex have the hardest work – they try to skate into Waltz rhythm with choreography which doesn’t accept Waltz rhythm. They are trying their best in it, but Waltz rhythm in choreography is not visible.

Performance / Execution: Performance: involvement of the Skater/Pair/Couple physically, emotionally and intellectually as they translate the intent of the music and choreography.
Execution: quality of movement and precision in delivery. This includes harmony of movement.

1. W&P 9.54 points,
2. P&C 8.96 points,
3. C&B 8.75 points,
4. I&Z 8.57 points,
5. S&S 8.36 points,
6. G&P 8.07 points

In both Interpretation and Performance I would put P&C and I&Z above C&B. W&P were the best.

 

[sisinka]

Let’s compare GOE:

GOE in Step Sequences:
1. W&P +4.87 points,
2. C&B +3.78 points,
3. P&C +3.62 points,
4. I&Z +3.14 points,
5. G&P +2.83 points,
6.S&S +2.67 points

Characteristic of Grade of Execution (GOE): judges must look at sureness of edges, speed and flow, partner balance, clean turns, spacing between partners.

Best sureness of edges, speed, flow and biggest number of clean turns goes into direction of I&Z, partner balance is OK without any terribly big differences in all cases.

Spacing between partners – probably the best in case of W&P, the worst in case of C&B, other four couples could be better, but it is not too bad…

I would say that the best Step Sequences were executed by I&Z, then W&P, then P&C, next C&B and S&S with similar GOE, very far last G&P.

------------------

Technical panel was very strict as to Levels here, but not to everybody.

Piper didn’t execute many clean turns. Looking at Diagonal Step Sequence where the couple got Level 3:
Piper… in opening turn – Rocker - she spread the ice from blade in second edge – questionable whether to take it or not…
…light edges in Mohawk,
…another Rocker – second edge was done after a moment, in the beginning Piper had no edge – this is not correctly done turn, because you must go from edge into edge (this turn is not counted because every turn can be counted once only and she already did one Rocker),
…in next Mohawk she jumped from one leg to another (it shouldn’t be counted),
…Double Twizzle done staying on one place, not skating, last half turn done on toe-pick (shouldn’t be counted),
…Chocktaw – once again no edge after change of foot, then in next moment she went into Outside edge (shouldn’t be counted),
…next Chocktaw – once again just before the change of leg her right leg lost edge and stepping into right leg – she had no edge until next moment (once again repeating of turn is not counted into level),
…Counter – no second edge in moment of changement edge (shouldn’t be counted),
…Double Twizzle OK,
…Mohawk OK (not counted for Level, because it was already done).

I read in Questions for Technical panel that in case that during Step Sequence Level A (where every turn can be counted twice) – if a skater executes one turn three times, only first two attempts will be taken into account for Level, no matter whether Technical panel will count those first two turns like clean or not. Using this strategy for Step Sequence for Level B, only first attempt in turn should be taken into account and every repetition of turn – Technical panel doesn’t count it into Level.

Overall Piper executed 2 clean turns which could be counted for Level – Double Twizzle and Mohawk. One turn – Rocker is under question. But if my theory is right – Double Twizzle can’t be counted because she already attempt Double Twizzle sooner (and did it on toe-pick, so it shouldn’t be counted). So the couple should get Level 1 in case that Technical panel would also count Rocker or no Level in case that they would be strict.

An example of Piper doing difficult turn:
…second edge in first Choctaw – from no edge to light Outside edge –

…and next Chocktaw – once again from no edge to Inside edge -

 

[sisinka]

GOE in Twizzles:

1. C&B +1.20 points,
2. P&C and S&S +1.11 points,
3. W&P +1.03 points,
4. I&Z +0.94 points,
5. G&P +0.51 points

Characteristic of Grade of Execution (GOE): judges must look at seamless entry and completion, spacing, connecting steps.
Like Elif noticed - not simultaneous execution in two Twizzles – no more than -1.

W&P – a little bit out of synchro in the last part of first Set, another Sets OK, overall OK.
C&B – this time very nice Twizzles.
P&C – out of synchro in every Set, so judges should give GOE -1… in reality judges gave +2 six times and +3 once - fantastic.
I&Z – the best ice coverage, perfect synchro in the first Set, out of synchro a little bit in the middle of second Set. They are the only ones doing first two Sets on one foot, this is much more difficult.
G&P – Piper was fighting in the first Set, overall good.
S&S – small problems in third and fourth Set for Maia, but overall very good.

I think that a quality of Twizzles were in this order - I&Z, behind them S&S and this time also C&B, then G&P, then W&P and last P&C who would be the only with negative GOE -1 (like rules says).

GOE in Spin:

1. P&C +1.20 points,
2. W&P and C&B +1.11 points,
3. G&P +0.86 points,
4. S&S +0.77 points,
5. I&Z +0.60 points

Characteristic of Grade of Execution (GOE): judges must look at fluid entry and exit, immediate move onto one foot, rotation, seamless change of pose.

Faster spin have P&C and C&B. G&P and I&Z are doing spin on one foot – this is more difficult because you have to balance on one leg all the time, try to keep energy for rotations.

From couples doing spin with change of leg – I think that P&C and C&B should have the same GOE, closely followed by W&P, then S&S.
I would give more GOE then they got to both couples with no change of foot thanks to higher difficulty, definitely over +1.00… G&P had better quality than I&Z there.

Comparison of Base value:
1. W&P – 40.20 points,
2. C&B and G&P - 39.00 points,
3. I&Z - 38.70 points (thanks to a fact that choreographical lift gets about 0.30 points less than choreographic spin),
4. S&S and P&C - 36.5 points

Comparison of Grade of Execution (GOE):

1. W&P 13.46 points,
2. P&C +11.76 points,
3. C&B +11.41 points,
4. S&S +8.66 points,
5. G&P +8.14 points,
6. I&Z + 8.11 points

 

[sisinka]

Yes, but even when Ruslan made some mistakes in the SD, she was very supportive toward him, so her good mod isn't just because they're on a roll. I think this partnership is just better for her emotionally.

Until this moment Lena and Ruslan skated at three competitions and from six programs skated there five were clean - this is a record of clean programs per season I&K never had. And this is still just the first half of the season (I am expecting more clean programs at the end of the season). So I am not surprised she is in good mood.

 

[slider11]

I am reading all this analysis of the various FDs with great interest. I am very pleased with the results except for the Shibs. What really concerns me is in the IceNetwork interview, Maia was respectful and courteous saying that they were pleased with their dance, appreciative of the crowd's support and will struggle through with the results. It was mentioned that she had tears in her eyes. It's one thing if you know what's wrong and can work on correcting it but that does not seem to be the case. I hope her coaching team is as thoughtful as others above with where they went wrong and what can be done to correct it. I am really hoping for a strong Nationals for them securing second spot, if not first. I don't think Chock and Bates are invincible. Hubbell and Donahue and Hawayek and Baker are in the wings for a spot. Pressure is on!

 

[Snow63]

sisinka, thank you.
Could you explain something to me about I/Z's new spin, please? They have changed it, but they both are still doing Camel pose at the beginning, I thought it only counts as difficult position for just one partner. Why they got level 4 for that spin? And also why they were rotating so slow? I understand that's bacause they have no acceleration from free legs, since they're keeping them in the air all the time, but still... it looks too slow in coparison with other teams.
And also, why Elena always get too close to Ruslan during their 3rd set of Twizzles? Is it intentional, or she just can't control her body? I don't get it.
I also can't get why their CiSt was only level 2. All turns looked correct :scratch:

 

[LisaM]

Thank you once again, sisinka! I have the same question about the CiSt being only level 2 as Snow. Could you (or anyone) explain?

 

[elif]

Gilles/Poirier have ugliest looking twizzles in history. I know some of them for level4 but at least they should remove last unattractive pose. They don't gain level for that and that pose remind me this:

http://9gag.com/gag/5606567/female-soccer-fans-from-around-the-world

 

[sisinka]

And also, why Elena always get too close to Ruslan during their 3rd set of Twizzles? Is it intentional, or she just can't control her body? I don't get it.

Lena’s third Set of Twizzles – coming much closer to Ruslan – it happened in FD in China.
The distance was good in Russia in both programs, in China in SD, in Barcelona in SD.

In Barcelona in FD – Lena was preparing for the third Set, but she turned a little bit on the left side, so direction of skating was to the left instead of backward in that moment. It caused that she went into Ruslan’s direction. This is a thing which should be fixed in future also.

But maybe…she innovated that Twizzle element and tried to cross Ruslan‘s pattern to have another Feature from Group C…
but she told in interview that she doesn’t like changements, so probably this option is not the right one.

Could you explain to me please something about I/Z new spin, please? They have changed it, but they both are still doing Camel pose at the beginning, I thought it only counts as difficult position for just one partner. Why they got level 4 for that spin? And also why they were rotating so slow? I understand that's bacause they have no acceleration from free legs, since they're keeping them in the air all the time, but still... it looks too slow in coparison with other teams.

Lena and Ruslan changed Combination Spin (done with change of foot) into Spin (done on one foot only) with the same spinning direction. Requirements for Spin are 3 rotations overall and 2 rotations in fixed position if counted. For Level 4 you need 4 different Difficult Variations from 3 Basic Positions. In I&Z’s case – Ruslan’s camel, Lena’s camel with heel above head (both Basic Position Camel), Ruslan’s sit position (Basic Positions Sit) and Lena’s Layback (Basic Position Upright).

Speed in this spin – you can really compare it with Gilles & Poirier’s spin, it is not really fair to compare with other couples who uses change of foot which helps a lot in accelerating the spin.

I also can't get why their CiSt was only level 2. All turns looked correct.

I have the same question about the CiSt being only level 2 as Snow. Could you (or anyone) explain?

Circular Step Sequence – for Level 3 both partners must execute 7 clean turns (every turn can be counted twice), including Double Twizzle, including One Foot Section with 3 clean turns…

Lena:
…Bracket – clean and beautiful…
…Rocker – great opening, but light second edge…
…Counter – second light edge from Rocker was opening edge for Counter – so light, second edge in Counter was great...
…then she makes her knee more straigh and again goes into deeper knee doing Double Twizzle – great…
…all those four steps were done like One Foot Section…
…Chocktaw – great edges…
…Mohawk – first edge OK, but stepping on second leg not immediately doing Outside edge…
…Double Twizzle – great…
…Rocker – OK…
…Bracket – good, great second edge…

Ruslan:
…Bracket – good edges, but in the second edge he minimally spread the ice during the arc, and watching the change of edge – it didn’t look fluent – I am not sure whether he almost made a little jump there, probably not, but it was not typical from edge to edge change…
…Rocker – very good first edge, quite good second edge…
…Chocktaw - great edges…
…another Chocktaw – first edge looked OK, but just before changing the foot he lost that edge, second edge was great (Piper gets such turns counted, but we are talking about Ruslan – judges certainly didn’t counted this)…
…Mohawk - first edge OK, but stepping on second leg not immediately doing Outside edge…
…Double Twizzle – great…
…Rocker – great edges…
…Counter – changement of edge was not too fast once again…questionable whether to take it or not…
…Bracket – no opening edge, great second edge – not counted…
…Double Twizzle – OK…
…last 4 turns were One Foot Section turns…

Understand, all couples are doing such things in turns - not immediately changing edge into edge, they have the same delay or bigger…the problem is that since Lena and Ruslan appeared at stage, from all three competitions they took part in…every Technical panel put down ANY possible mistake (and this panel even put down Step Sequence with no mistakes), and it happened even in their home town in Moscow (while other couples with same mistakes were excused and Levels for them counted). So I get used to say that whatever is not perfect – it is under suspicion of putting down.

Normal panel would give Level 3, no problem with it. But this panel was not normal.

In my opinion Lena executed clean 8 turns, with 4 clean turns in One Foot Section, Mohawk is under question – other couples probably get this counted. Ruslan executed 5 clean turns for sure, I wouldn’t count opening Bracket and second Bracket, another 3 turns under question (counting Counter would mean that he has 3 clean turns in One Foot Section, not counting would caused only 2 clean turns in One Foot Section – which would automatically mean Level 2 only).

If Technical panel would be really taking rules word by word and count only from edge to edge turns – I&Z would get Level 2 in Circular steps and Level 3 in Diagonal steps, W&P would get some low Level also, but probably all other couples would finish having no Levels (because even for Level 1 you need too clean different types of turns).

 

[Snow63]

Lena’s third Set of Twizzles – coming much closer to Ruslan – it happened in FD in China.
The distance was good in Russia in both programs, in China in SD, in Barcelona in SD.

In Barcelona in FD – Lena was preparing for the third Set, but she turned a little bit on the left side, so direction of skating was to the left instead of backward in that moment. It caused that she went into Ruslan’s direction. This is a thing which should be fixed in future also.

I noticed it too. So it's unintentional. Maybe it's the reason why they always get lower GOE than other teams with small and/or slow and ugly twizzles.

But maybe…she innovated that Twizzle element and tried to cross Ruslan‘s pattern to have another Feature from Group C…
but she told in interview that she doesn’t like changements, so probably this option is not the right one.

I thought about it too.

Lena and Ruslan changed Combination Spin (done with change of foot) into Spin (done on one foot only) with the same spinning direction. Requirements for Spin are 3 rotations overall and 2 rotations in fixed position if counted. For Level 4 you need 4 different Difficult Variations from 3 Basic Positions. In I&Z’s case – Ruslan’s camel, Lena’s camel with heel above head (both Basic Position Camel), Ruslan’s sit position (Basic Positions Sit) and Lena’s Layback (Basic Position Upright).

Speed in this spin – you can really compare it with Gilles & Poirier’s spin, it is not really fair to compare with other couples who uses change of foot which helps a lot in accelerating the spin.

Thanks. But still other teams got higher GOE. That's not fair

Circular Step Sequence – for Level 3 both partners must execute 7 clean turns (every turn can be counted twice), including Double Twizzle, including One Foot Section with 3 clean turns…

Lena:
…Bracket – clean and beautiful…
…Rocker – great opening, but light second edge…
…Counter – second light edge from Rocker was opening edge for Counter – so light, second edge in Counter was great...
…then she makes her knee more straigh and again goes into deeper knee doing Double Twizzle – great…
…all those four steps were done like One Foot Section…
…Chocktaw – great edges…
…Mohawk – first edge OK, but stepping on second leg not immediately doing Outside edge…
…Double Twizzle – great…
…Rocker – OK…
…Bracket – good, great second edge…

Ruslan:
…Bracket – good edges, but in the second edge he minimally spread the ice during the arc, and watching the change of edge – it didn’t look fluent – I am not sure whether he almost made a little jump there, probably not, but it was not typical from edge to edge change…
…Rocker – very good first edge, quite good second edge…
…Chocktaw - great edges…
…another Chocktaw – first edge looked OK, but just before changing the foot he lost that edge, second edge was great (Piper gets such turns counted, but we are talking about Ruslan – judges certainly didn’t counted this)…
…Mohawk - first edge OK, but stepping on second leg not immediately doing Outside edge…
…Double Twizzle – great…
…Rocker – great edges…
…Counter – changement of edge was not too fast once again…questionable whether to take it or not…
…Bracket – no opening edge, great second edge – not counted…
…Double Twizzle – OK…
…last 4 turns were One Foot Section turns…

Understand, all couples are doing such things in turns - not immediately changing edge into edge, they have the same delay or bigger…the problem is that since Lena and Ruslan appeared at stage, from all three competitions they took part in…every Technical panel put down ANY possible mistake (and this panel even put down Step Sequence with no mistakes), and it happened even in their home town in Moscow (while other couples with same mistakes were excused and Levels for them counted). So I get used to say that whatever is not perfect – it is under suspicion of putting down.

Normal panel would give Level 3, no problem with it. But this panel was not normal.

In my opinion Lena executed clean 8 turns, with 4 clean turns in One Foot Section, Mohawk is under question – other couples probably get this counted. Ruslan executed 5 clean turns for sure, I wouldn’t count opening Bracket and second Bracket, another 3 turns under question (counting Counter would mean that he has 3 clean turns in One Foot Section, not counting would caused only 2 clean turns in One Foot Section – which would automatically mean Level 2 only).

If Technical panel would be really taking rules word by word and count only from edge to edge turns – I&Z would get Level 2 in Circular steps and Level 3 in Diagonal steps, W&P would get some low Level also, but probably all other couples would finish having no Levels (because even for Level 1 you need too clean different types of turns).

Thank you.

 

[LisaM]

I hope to see I/Z get more credit later in the season!

 

[sisinka]

I noticed it too. So it's unintentional. Maybe it's the reason why they always get lower GOE than other teams with small and/or slow and ugly twizzles.

I think that reasons for lower GOE are somewhere else.

With new rules I don’t take “distance between partners“ rule relevant.

1. With crossing pattern Twizzles, it completely looses sense to look at distance. Skaters who are crossing pattern are also doing mistakes in it, from time to time they are crossing in a completely different trajectory then how it was planned and trained – but you can’t prove them and put lower marks. Especially when skaters are crossing pattern having almost no distance in one moment and almost crashing into each other – this is visibly not planned, but you can’t mark it, because they fulfilled the criteria of crossing.

2. It is not possible to have distance less than two arms in moment when you have your free leg straight beside. Because in moment of a little bit out of synchro, skaters can injure themselves. So how can you put any advantage to a skater who catches blade and is closer than skater with leg beside? It wouldn’t be fair.

3. And how are you going to prove Lena that she really didn’t attemp crossing rule?

 

[sisinka]

I hope to see I/Z get more credit later in the season!

Just for realising that not every couple is marked like new…

I&Z (imagine their Twizzles in mind) and S&K (imagine their Twizzles in mind) got the same GOE at Cup of Russia in FD – GOE +0.94 points.

In China I&Z got in both programs GOE +0.60 points.

Here at Grand Prix Final I&Z got GOE +1.03 points in SD and 0.94 points in FD.

Are really I&Z and S&K’s Twizzles the same quality in judges eyes…or S&K have worse Twizzles, but they are not getting “new team“ penalty?

 

[Snow63]

Just for realising that not every couple is marked like new…

I&Z (imagine their Twizzles in mind) and S&K (imagine their Twizzles in mind) got the same GOE at Cup of Russia in FD – GOE +0.94 points.

In China I&Z got in both programs GOE +0.60 points.

Here at Grand Prix Final I&Z got GOE +1.03 points in SD and 0.94 points in FD.

Are really I&Z and S&K’s Twizzles the same quality in judges eyes…or S&K have worse Twizzles, but they are not getting “new team“ penalty?

Obviously, not enough promo for I/Z. They don't have Zoueva, or four blue eyes, do they?

 

[elif]

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin needs to do some small changes for twizzles If they want more GOE. Some options:
1.They can remove third set. They already do first two set in same leg so they have group C feature (If I'm correct). Third set also a Group C feature so they don't need it. Also last set doesn't have usual ice coverage of I/Z.
2.If they can choice three set of twizzles and that means they can put steps between twizzles. It is going to help transitions between twizzles to be more safe/sure and will get higher GOE.
3.All three sets have arm features. One is enough for level, two is very safe If other didn't count. I have no idea why they are doing third set with both arms over the head. Unnecessary.

 

[sisinka]

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin needs to do some small changes for twizzles If they want more GOE. Some options:

I wouldn't change it. This more Features give a possibility to train many things and let open a possibility to change Twizzles having different Features next seasons. If you train just one sort of things=Features, than you very often loose a capability of doing another things=Features. Arms position is harder, so they are showing more difficulty which should also prove judges that are great in it.

Second and third Sets are done from no speed and third Set have three rotations only, so it is not surprising that third Set doesn't have "usual I&Z's ice coverage".

Having no connecting steps is much more difficult, it should be awarded by judges also!

Let them execute what they have, maybe they will improve it before the season ends.

 

[elif]

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin's first lift gets good GOE. That lift have good rotations and change of poses and use music very well. If we look at second lift, they changed first pose of Ilinykh which I like better but transition into this pose still problematic. Also they are rushing exit little bit.

 

[Snow63]

I wouldn't change it. This more Features give a possibility to train many things and let open a possibility to change Twizzles having different Features next seasons. If you train just one sort of things=Features, than you very often loose a capability of doing another things=Features. Arms position is harder, so they are showing more difficulty which should also prove judges that are great in it.

Second and third Sets are done from no speed and third Set have three rotations only, so it is not surprising that third Set doesn't have "usual I&Z's ice coverage".

Having no connecting steps is much more difficult, it should be awarded by judges also!

Let them execute what they have, maybe they will improve it before the season ends.

Do you know which teams are doing Twizzles without steps between first two sets this season? I can't remember anyone, but I'm sure someone did it.
Last season B/S did them this way too.

 

[elif]

Second and third Sets are done from no speed and third Set have three rotations only, so it is not surprising that third Set doesn't have "usual I&Z's ice coverage".

Can't they put steps between second and third set? With little bit more ice coverage third set will look better.

 

[uhh]

Ilinykh/Zhiganshin needs to do some small changes for twizzles If they want more GOE. Some options:
1.They can remove third set. They already do first two set in same leg so they have group C feature (If I'm correct). Third set also a Group C feature so they don't need it. Also last set doesn't have usual ice coverage of I/Z.
2.If they can choice three set of twizzles and that means they can put steps between twizzles. It is going to help transitions between twizzles to be more safe/sure and will get higher GOE.
3.All three sets have arm features. One is enough for level, two is very safe If other didn't count. I have no idea why they are doing third set with both arms over the head. Unnecessary.

I don't think anything needs to change, the judges just need to wake up. Watching live this weekend, it was so obvious that they get the best ice coverage. Their first set covers the same amount as some couple's whole sequence did - P/C & W/P in particular. The speed is great, they enter it very fast, and the control they have is amazing. Compare that to say G/P who enter their twizzles so slowly and tentatively and in a way that isn't smoothly integrated with the rest of the program. The only thing that needs tightening up is Ruslan's free leg and arms in the 2nd set, but even with that I'd still give them +2 GOE

sisinka, I'd be interested in your thought's on P/C when they are in hold. I never noticed it before, but it seemed to me that they skate very far apart in the FD step sequence & you could see so much of the ice between them when it was supposed to be in close hold.