2015 NHK Short Dance

[caitie]

B/S were within two points of the Shibutanis here and at Skate Canada, but at Skate Canada their FD was more than 5 points behind the Shibs. I actually like the Anna Karenina dance, though.

At this point I really prefer both H/D and Shibs to Chock/Bates this season. I don't know anything about ice dance so can't comment on which team is actually the strongest. Can anyone else comment on whether C/B are truly the frontrunners based on what's put out on the ice?

I've heard a lot that Chock and Bates skate faster and bigger than the Shibutanis and H/D. It's harder to notice watching from video. At Skate Canada, I thought W/P looked like they were noticeably faster and getting more ice coverage than the Shibutanis, and H/D's new coach said when she took them on that one of her main focuses this season would be increasing their speed -- she said they aren't fast enough for a team of their height.

I do think that if Chock and Bates keep dropping levels and if the Shibutanis skate well at the GPF that the USFS might have enough confidence in the Shibutanis to roll with it if they skate really well at Nationals.

 

[Mrs. P]

Chock and Bates do skate quite fast and certainly they --especially Madison -- have quite the presence. Shibs I'd say is second in speed, but they have really nice edge control. Hubbell and Donanhue have nice deep edges, but are slower compared to the other two.

But one thing I noticed here is that the Shibs have worked on ice coverage...even compared to Skate Canada.

 

[Dots]

Brobova/Soloviev's free dance is their short dance but with a few extra moves and a longer cut. Unfortunately for them, their short dance is choreographed better.

 

[Mrs. P]

Brobova/Soloviev's free dance is their short dance but with a few extra moves and a longer cut. Unfortunately for them, their short dance is choreographed better.

De gustibus, as they say. I really don't agree.

 

[herios]

Very impressive improvement over their first GP for all top 3 teams. FD will be a nail biter.

 

[LisaM]

I really hope B/S overtake H/D in the FD because I want to see all of the top 3 teams in the GPF.

 

[katha]

Yes, as I already said somewhere...this is not an easy GP even with P/C out. And the trend of the judges basically doubling and tripling down on their "B/S, S/K and I/Z are the top three Russian teams for us" refrain continues. They put some distance between those three and S/B, even with the generally higher scoring here than in other GP events (and I wish the ISU would stop pretending that the scores between the GPs are actually comparable...) and I expect it will be even more in the FD. It will be quite a fight at US Nationals as well, I see. Though I also expect C/B to improve by that time, at this point they're still obviously struggling to get their programs to gel while the other teams are further ahead in preparations.

ETA: I'm weirdly proud of the judges for scoring H/D the way they did. Yes, they got lower PCS and GOE than B/S, but not by much. Even though their season last year wasn't great and they "only" finished 10th at Worlds, even though they're "only" the third American team right now. Some years ago, that would have slashed their PCS by 2 or 3 points easily, not only by a few tenths. Same goes for S/K after their crash and burn disaster of a season, they came to SA well prepared and with good programs and the judges just went with it without much of a "but they didn't even go to Worlds, they're only 60th in the rankings" consideration. So I do think that's changed for the better in ice dance, that the judges aren't that strongly bound by protocol and reputation judging anymore. It's still there, but not as rigid.

 

[lauravvv]

To each his/her own. Enjoy their program. I appreciate your spirited defense.

I never said I was a fan. I said I had enjoyed some of their earlier programs.

Well, you did write "Their exhibition is so horrific, it has thrown me off as a fan." (that's an exact quote).

To be honest, although I like their programs this season, I am not even a fan myself. I really don't become a fan so easily. Most likely I would have responded in a similar manner if you had written that about any skater.

I still hope Stepanova and Bukin beat them badly. I concede that "destroy" has an idiomatic meaning that may not translate well

It changes very little for me. I am still wondering have can someone wish that to a skater just because they didn't like one of their programs. Or do you dislike also B/S's competitive programs this season? And do you like Stepanova/Bukin and their programs that much better?

I really hope B/S overtake H/D in the FD because I want to see all of the top 3 teams in the GPF.

I am torn, because, although I like B/S and their programs, I also think it would be interesting to see both Sinitsina/Katsalapov and Gilles/Poirier live at the GPF. Overall I prefer Bobrova/Solovev over them, but it's still two teams instead of one (and seven instead of six). But I think B/S are going to overtake H/D in the free dance, as that will be their second showing of it on the GPs and the score will very likely be improved, whereas H/D have no GP score (in the FD) on which to improve. Judges may be hesitant to score them so highly in the FD at it's first GP showing.

 

[lauravvv]

Sorry, deleted post.

 

[katha]

I am torn because, although I like B/S and their programs, I also think it would be interesting to see both Sinitsina/Katsalapov and Gilles/Poirier live at the GPF. Overall I prefer Bobrova/Solovev over them, but it's still two teams instead of one (and seven instead of six). But I think B/S are going to overtake H/D in the free dance, as that will be their second showing of it on the GPs and the score will very likely be improved, whereas H/D have no GP score (in the FD) on which to improve. Judges may be hesitant to score them so highly in the FD atit's first GP showing.

I really, really hope that won't be a consideration when scoring (though it could be). The judges are aware that TEB was cancelled, that not skating the FD wasn't H/D's choice, so punishing them for that seems like a really low blow. And I'm a bit ambivalent towards B/S' FD at the moment, I think it has potential to be really good, better than the SD, but IMO it's not come together yet. The music lacks tension and so far they haven't managed to build an arc with their skating to counteract the monotony of the music. Also, the ending? Not sure there. Though, to be fair, last I saw H/D's FD they had the same problem, perhaps they managed to bring more light and shade into proceedings now. Hope she kept those Marina Klimova tribute wings, though, I thought those were dope.

 

[Snow63]

Bobrova killed someone's kitty or what? The level of bitterness in this thread is just ridiculous.
I'm very happy with so many clean skates. And the scores for top 3 are good too. Can't wait for free dance tomorrow!

 

[Astrid56]

B/S were within two points of the Shibutanis here and at Skate Canada, but at Skate Canada their FD was more than 5 points behind the Shibs. I actually like the Anna Karenina dance, though.

I've heard a lot that Chock and Bates skate faster and bigger than the Shibutanis and H/D. It's harder to notice watching from video. At Skate Canada, I thought W/P looked like they were noticeably faster and getting more ice coverage than the Shibutanis, and H/D's new coach said when she took them on that one of her main focuses this season would be increasing their speed -- she said they aren't fast enough for a team of their height.

I do think that if Chock and Bates keep dropping levels and if the Shibutanis skate well at the GPF that the USFS might have enough confidence in the Shibutanis to roll with it if they skate really well at Nationals.

True, Chock and Bates did get lower levels at the CoC due to Madison's unfortunate twizzle error but that doesn't mean the Shibs or H/D are now ready to overtake them in the National or GPF. Despite Madison's twizzle mistake, they still scored high though not as high as in Skate America where they got the highest SD 70+ which to this date (this season's GPF series) is still unsurpassed. They vowed to work hard on their programs technically and with adequate time they can do it - they have a month before the GPF competition.

 

[Sugarpova]

good thing I didnt wake up for this
B/S in 3rd:sad21: they were so cool

But congrats SS!!!

 

[WeakAnkles]

Mr De La Asunicion--a belt AND suspenders??? Non, non, non, mon ami! Fashion faux pas.

Special kudos to Ms Stepanova, for proving you can have bling enough on a skating dress to make a magpie weep enviously, and still be extremely tasteful. Gorgeous color as well. Brava!

 

[Mrs. P]

True, Chock and Bates did get lower levels at the CoC due to Madison's unfortunate twizzle error but that doesn't mean the Shibs or H/D are now ready to overtake them in the National or GPF. Despite Madison's twizzle mistake, they still scored high though not as high as in Skate America where they got the highest SD 70+ which to this date (this season's GPF series) is still unsurpassed. They vowed to work hard on their programs technically and with adequate time they can do it - they have a month before the GPF competition.

While the Shibutanis and Hubbell and Donahue will stay at home eating Bon bons. Such slackers! :sarcasm:

In seriousness, we'll see. I don't think anyone anticipated the Shibs to do as well as they're doing now. And while Hubbell and Donahue's sd could have had timing issues they're making it work so far.

As I said earlier Chock and Bates have a pcs buffer, but if both teams continue to do well, that will get eroded little by little, as we're seeing with the Shibs.

What's the harm in having some good old domestic competition? In fact I welcome it.

 

[caitie]

True, Chock and Bates did get lower levels at the CoC due to Madison's unfortunate twizzle error but that doesn't mean the Shibs or H/D are now ready to overtake them in the National or GPF. Despite Madison's twizzle mistake, they still scored high though not as high as in Skate America where they got the highest SD 70+ which to this date (this season's GPF series) is still unsurpassed. They vowed to work hard on their programs technically and with adequate time they can do it - they have a month before the GPF competition.

It's not just the twizzles errors Madison made at CoC and at Skate America. They are dropping levels on the highest scoring elements -- step sequences and the RW. They are a technical team, they can't be dropping levels like this.

To elaborate on the level problems with their footwork, they have not received any Level 4s on the RW and two Level 2s on the GP. Three out of four of their step sequences in their FD received three Level 2s. W/P by comparison have received no levels lower than 3 on anything on the GP.

I am sure they will work hard to fix the problems, but they have certainly not made a case for themselves to be World Champions with their performance on the GP, and I feel that they have left the door open as far as their #1 US status goes.

 

[tulosai]

I just finished watching. Quick thoughts:

-Shibs were awesome I really love the details in the program and they were adorable in K&C- I want those stuffed bears so badly, some fan was very thoughtful to have them made!

-I also really enjoyed H/D. I think their SD is very beautiful, though it does annoy me slightly that it's not really a waltz in the slightest. I think this is actually maybe their best program ever in terms of emotional connection with each other and the audience though, which is nothing to take lightly. Very well done!

-B/S are also awesome. They skated that very big and with just the right amount of drama. I'd actually have had them in second.

-The other teams were all a big blah for me for various reasons. I am rooting for Co/Bu to have a better free, and I did think Murmoto and Reed looked awesome for their debut... very impressive progress considering how short a time they've been skating together.

 

[katha]

Were C/B touring this summer? That, tied with having to change the SD, could have thrown their preparation behind. Because I agree the level dropping on the steps is uncharacteristic for them. Last year they didn't do any tours and only trained, then came back sharp and ready in the GP and made a case for themselves all season with their consistency. But I'm not sure any skater can afford to forego touring every year, especially US skaters because they don't get that much funding from their federation.

 

[KKonas]

Just watched the SD. Thought the Shibs clearly won this section of the event. Charming program, great twizzles generating the best distance covered of the other teams. Thought B&S should have outpointed H&D based on better ice coverage and speed. Don't care for H&D's program. They got very little distance in the twizzle section - in one section almost twizzling in place. So I would have had them third here.

 

[whatif]

I doubt B/S can improve on H/D tomorrow. Hence, congratulations to S/K for making GPF, I guess.