2019 Four Continents Free Dance

[TontoK]

I, too, found the schadenfreud over H/D's downgraded spin rather disgusting.

In general, I think some fans get WAY too invested both in "loving" their favorites and "hating" their lesser liked skaters.

These people aren't family so they don't rate my undying affection or loyalty, and none of them have done anything to deserve my personal wrath or disdain.

On a side note: I appreciate H/D's response to events, and as you've noted, the tech panel may have dinged them, but the judges still obviously love them.

 

[Mathman]

I wonder if we'd have the same reaction if P/C had been similarly treated by the technical panel.

To tell the truth, I think we would still have some fans saying "I never liked them anyway" and others saying "the judges are picking on them."

There were quite a few gleeful posts, and quite a few sympathetic ones, when P/C flubbed the short dance at the Olympics due to her costume problems.

 

[TontoK]

To tell the truth, I think we would still have some fans saying "I never liked them anyway" and others saying "the judges are picking on them."

There were quite a few gleeful posts, and quite a few sympathetic ones, when P/C flubbed the short dance at the Olympics due to her costume problems.

See, that is just wrong. I was rooting for V/M, because I preferred their performances that season. But I'd have liked it if they won while the French put out their best performance.

Similarly, I'm thrilled C/B won. Their performances this season have reignited my interest in them. But, I'm a bit sad they won this way.

 

[Alegria]

We've seen positive GOE after jump errors sure, but not in this +3 to +5 range. To me, this means that the judges didn't really know the travelling stationary lift was a significant error in base value, or not an error worth too much to consider, or just too new/unusual of an error to know what to do with.

If an unknown team did this lift exactly as H/D did, I would say they would get maybe a +1 to +3. Being unknown does have an effect but without data, it's just speculation and difficult to measure.

Laurence almost fell from her sliding move and only 1 judge gave -1, 2 judges gave 0, but 3 judges gave them +3. So what judge did the job right?
And it's strange to read, that travelling is insignificant for GOE in this lift. They were struggling through all positions that is why he started to travel. It's not like he made less turns.
As for me, they had clearly one negative feature: Poor execution and/or Element labored and/or Uncontrolled. So no higher than +3.
And even without it I cant find 8 features to give them +5, but 4 judges somehow found them.

 

[dorispulaski]

There is a nice rundown on the H/D stationary lift issue here:
https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/the-stationary-lift.105291/

 

[elbkup]

Charlie and Taneth provided comments during H/D's FS and neither one mentioned the stationery lift as it happened.. Charlie noted Maddie's bobble during the twizzle. .

 

[apgold]

Charlie and Taneth provided comments during H/D's FS and neither one mentioned the stationery lift as it happened.. Charlie noted Maddie's bobble during the twizzle. .

Her bobble was the only visible error I saw, but I'm not on the TP nor an expert on ID.

I'm sure they will fix the spin/lift for Worlds, now that it was made an issue.

 

[Lester]

That lift was like two lifts, he completely changed the spot he was on during the transitions. It's interesting if indeed the mess up happened only during the free dance or if they had been performing it like that all week as Zach claims.

 

[dorispulaski]

If they practiced it as they did it at the GPF, perhaps it was not as obvious? In this competition, entry, lift, and exit all were in a straight line perpendicular to the camera, and arranged parallel to the Four Continents sign. This arrangement revealed all too clearly how much the lift travelled during what were meant to be changes of positions to get a higher level than Basic during the lift.

It could well have been judged as a two lift combination lift, thus invalidating a later correct lift. The panel made the more charitable judgment.

 

[elbkup]

Any possibility they may go back to their previous free dance? In Pairs James/Ciprès went back to Sound of Silence after using Say Something for most of the season...

 

[DSQ]

I’m rewatching with the Eurosport commentary and it’s worth noting that they didn’t comment of the travel on the lift either just Maddies twizzles and they have been known to be a stickler for pointing out travel like that if I remember Europeans 2018. They were really shocked at the results and expected them to come in second.

So while while I definitely noticed it this time and it’s clear that the panel did the right thing but the performance definitely distracts you from noticing it. So I actually leave this competition respecting their performance a bit more despite still not liking this program.

 

[pearly]

Any possibility they may go back to their previous free dance? In Pairs James/Ciprès went back to Sound of Silence after using Say Something for most of the season...

They have no reason to do it. I wish they did because this program it crap, but I don't see it happening.

 

[oly2018]

They have no reason to do it. I wish they did because this program it crap, but I don't see it happening.

They won't change. Zach said in an interview that he believes they have the best programs in the world, so in their minds, the program is a non-issue.

 

[litenkyckling]

They won't change. Zach said in an interview that he believes they have the best programs in the world, so in their minds, the program is a non-issue.

they had the highest PCS of the night, I would imagine the only thing they'd need to do is work on the spin and maybe alter the lift to make it work better technically. Although, even with the lift being called at level 4, the twizzles, one foot, and spin all would've put them behind Madi and Evan anyway.

 

[el henry]

They won't change. Zach said in an interview that he believes they have the best programs in the world, so in their minds, the program is a non-issue.

Which is completely reasonable thought for Zach to have, given how much love the judges have shown this program. One smart cookie, that Zach.:agree:

Madi and Zach got called on a fluke traveling lift. Fix the lift, fix the score.

And what do they care more about, what posters on an Internet Board think? Or what the judges think. :think: I know what I would care more about

 

[oly2018]

Which is completely reasonable thought for Zach to have, given how much love the judges have shown this program. One smart cookie, that Zach.:agree:

Madi and Zach got called on a fluke traveling lift. Fix the lift, fix the score.

And what do they care more about, what posters on an Internet Board think? Or what the judges think. :think: I know what I would care more about

Ahhh, snark.

Well, I would be curious to see if that PCS holds. I wonder if that would be the case if C/B had competed all season. H/D have had to make major changes to their program every single competition, which probably means someone was giving them feedback that it wasn't the best in the world. C/B were only off by 1 point in PCS marks and that's after being out of competition all season. Wouldn't be shocked if they overtake H/D in PCS by worlds. Also, someone on here did the math and even if they had fixed what you call a fluke, they still would have come in second. The calling was the fluke, not necessarily the mistake. They have been traveling all season on the lift, plus, this wasn't the first time their spin has been called level 2.

 

[rinkside_user]

Irrelevant topic but confession time: Madison Chock is obviously beautiful but she seemed especially bright and shiny out there during the FS. That was really nice to see after her surgery.

 

[cohen-esque]

Ahhh, snark.

Well, I would be curious to see if that PCS holds. I wonder if that would be the case if C/B had competed all season. H/D have had to make major changes to their program every single competition, which probably means someone was giving them feedback that it wasn't the best in the world. C/B were only off by 1 point in PCS marks and that's after being out of competition all season. Wouldn't be shocked if they overtake H/D in PCS by worlds. Also, someone on here did the math and even if they had fixed what you call a fluke, they still would have come in second. The calling was the fluke, not necessarily the mistake. They have been traveling all season on the lift, plus, this wasn't the first time their spin has been called level 2.

I don’t think they have been traveling on the lift all season; compared to the GPF Zach was still traveling here for at least a full additional rotation, during which time they lost the lift features to gain the initial levels. They’ll potentially run into the problem of the tech panel at Worlds being primed to look out for the same mistake, though, if it does happen again, or the judges being hawk-eyed with the GOE for it. (Both things I doubt.)

They’d be much more well-served reworking the spin in the FD, and the pattern in the RD, which is where they’ve been losing points consistently all season, and are how Chock/Bates earned a higher SB at this event than H/D have gotten yet.

 

[litenkyckling]

They won't change. Zach said in an interview that he believes they have the best programs in the world, so in their minds, the program is a non-issue.

also - (obviously they won't change it etc etc) BUT whenever I see their FD I always can't help but think that if it was a R&J themed FD that they wanted to do, why they didn't go with Dire Straits? It's a much more grown up Romeo and Juliet themed song, and I think it could've suited them quite well. It keeps the overarching theme, but has a mature feel to it.

(I'm sure its been covered by lots of people but the main one I can think of is The Killers.)

 

[IceDancingQueen]

Coming to this thread late as I recorded the FD on BESP and just got a chance to watch it. I’m so glad that I didn’t sneak a peak at the scores before watching because that ending was very dramatic! It’s a shame for H/D but Zach definitely travelled a lot during the first lift. C/B were on fire - they were so sharp - even better than at Nationals. They looked so happy and confident when performing which is so nice to see. Poor W/P - they always seem to get low balled on the GOE when I think their quality and execution is really good. The judges just don’t seem to go for them that much. They have such an understated elegance, that I personally think should be rewarded more. And poor G/P, missing out on beating W/P again! They also looked so happy when they were performing which again is such a nice thing to see. I am loving the mini inter-country rivalries that are happening between the top 2 Russian, Canadian and American teams. I like all 6 teams but I must admit I prefer S/B, G/P and C/B this season, even though you can not deny the quality that S/K, W/P and H/D have. Worlds is going to be fun this year - I don’t think I’ll really mind who gets on the podium even though I have my favourites. The top 10/11 teams are great (although I’m not a massive fan of the Poles this season, sorry!). Apart from P/C taking the gold, we’re going to have a major competition on our hands!!