I enjoyed the free dance and I want to say the US is lucky to have so many fine young teams. Although I find the music annoying I was stunned by Hawayek/Baker and I don´t get why they are so far away from H/D scorewise. H/D´s program was surprisingly ok for me (given I dislike both H/D and Hallelujah as skating music). But it´s not something special they need to beat the big teams.
2020 Skate America: Free Dance
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Wow, just finished watching the event and I must say H/D’s FD is really beautiful. I absolutely hated their programmes the last two years but this feels much more like how they used to be. Really soft and controlled and yet so much speed and power. This makes me happy because the performance made me feel like they used to make me feel. I’m still not a fan of their Burlesque RD but it is definitely better than last year’s. H/B were really good too, although I’m not 100% sold on the musical arrangement. But it was a beautiful performance. I really like C/P but their FD left me a bit meh. Igor needs new ideas as I feel like FS has moved on a bit from what he keeps giving them. Green and Parsons were a delightful surprise for me this year. Green has a lot of energy and sass and reminds me of baby Tessa.
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Didn’t realise that - I thought it was so beautiful. Makes sense now!
Same with Jason Brown's turtleneck/posture when he skated to "Melancholy" for the Peggy Fleming Trophy. Also, it seems to work well with a nice head of hair, too.
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I feel the same - I think that they can sell the FD and the feel does suit them but just looking at the protocols... Obviously not their best tech performance (Anthony's twizzle error left him with a level 2 and they got no GOE for them and the Spin got a level 2) but aside from that H/B were 10 points higher in the TES. I think that Igor hasn't realised that they need to have a more exciting program and ham up the choreo elements. PCS is kind of fair enough, skating skills come with time and experience - H/B are in their 7th senior season and Anthony is 8 years younger than Jean-Luc. I (personally) think that they are stronger skaters than say Fear and Gibson - yet their FD scores blow them out of the water - C/P have so much potential but the programs let them down every time. I do feel for the non-Gadbois teams because it must be tough trying to fight against such a powerhouse. But yes - try something new Igor, it just might help save your school.
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A couple of things in the puff chatter that caught my ear about the FD...
If their programs seemed fresh and new, caused you to look at the athletes with new eyes, struck you as personal and meaningful... well, there is a reason for that.
Lesson for the young folk from an old guy: Nobody cares more about your success than you do.
- H/D selected their music this year, and apparently they didn't for the past few seasons... and they also struck out on their own with a new choreographer in Scott Moir.
- H/B also selected their music, and they did a lot of their own choreography. I think this program is a masterpiece, especially the first half.
If their programs seemed fresh and new, caused you to look at the athletes with new eyes, struck you as personal and meaningful... well, there is a reason for that.
Lesson for the young folk from an old guy: Nobody cares more about your success than you do.
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Hubbell/Donohue - I like the Burlesque RD. It still drops in energy a bit with the music change, but overall I thought it worked much better here than the version from the ISP event. Not my favourite musical RD that we've see over the past two seasons, but much better than last years imo, and it suits them. Please at least take those tassels off the skirt though. At least. The FD I really liked after seeing it at ISP, and I felt the same here. Best program they've had since the Olympics, probably. Maybe it helps that I wasn't watching ice dance very closely the season the did Hallelujah for the RD, because although I have seen that program, I'm not really comparing them in my head. But I find it shows off their skating well and they seem connected to it. And with so many teams reusing last year's programs given the circumstances, I see no problem with them adapting a previous program to use.
Hawayek/Baker - the RD is a lot of fun, and keeping it was a good choice. As for the FD, I didn't really feel it when I saw it in the ISP event, but I loved it here. It's gorgeous. And they definitely look solid in the top 3 US teams at the moment.
Carreira/Ponomarenko - Like with H/D, I don't remember Chock and Bate's Dr. Zhivago program, so that probably helps because I'm not comparing it, but I really like this also. Not the most inspired choice maybe, but it feels so much more them than last year's FD. I enjoy it. I think they probably did it better in one of their ISP videos than here though.
Green/Parsons - I'm glad they got two new programs, since I think it's good for their development as a new team. The RD is good, and I love the FD. Still some stuff to smooth out, but it's so fun.
Hawayek/Baker - the RD is a lot of fun, and keeping it was a good choice. As for the FD, I didn't really feel it when I saw it in the ISP event, but I loved it here. It's gorgeous. And they definitely look solid in the top 3 US teams at the moment.
Carreira/Ponomarenko - Like with H/D, I don't remember Chock and Bate's Dr. Zhivago program, so that probably helps because I'm not comparing it, but I really like this also. Not the most inspired choice maybe, but it feels so much more them than last year's FD. I enjoy it. I think they probably did it better in one of their ISP videos than here though.
Green/Parsons - I'm glad they got two new programs, since I think it's good for their development as a new team. The RD is good, and I love the FD. Still some stuff to smooth out, but it's so fun.
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Because politics. Because H/B are “supposed” to be the #3 US team who are circling the drain and just waiting to drop to #4. Maybe at least this year I’m not going to hear a lot of “is this the year they drop to #4?” I’m going to start saying “is this the year they rise to #2?”
I 100% agree. They are better than some teams that would place above them internationally. I am really starting to wonder if Igor will be the one to bring out more in Christina and Anthony. They haven't added new lifts in a while and they keep getting recycled programs. I go back and watch their junior programs and they look SO good. I am also trying to keep in mind that they are so young compared to everyone else and they have time.
Monaghan and Fourati: Straightup 80's retread doesn't work. It was too serious to be fun, and too authentically 80's ice dance to be merely retro in an interesting way.
Pate and Bye: Very committed performance. They got me briefly. At first I thought he actually fell during that "slide", haha. Still some rough bits. I liked the instrumental portion at the end better than Say Something.
McNamara/Spiridonov: When it started all I could think of was Virtue and Moir, lol. But I actually liked this. It needs a few more miles on it, but overall good. I couldn't help but think about how I dislike some of the ugly contortions that seem to be required by the scoring system these days in the lifts.
Cesanek/Yehorov: OK, that was well skated, but... I didn't think Let it Rain went with Take me to Church at all. And while they were giving it their all, I disconnected at the end with all the histrionic arm movements. I get that this song is a scream of pain and anger, but the performance went over the top and lacked sincerity, though there were some choreographic things I did like, such as the trust fall.
Green/Parsons: I love this team. Loved their RD. I did not love this program. First, I'm biased, because I admit I'm not a huge Prince fan. And there were some good choreographic touches in it and it was well-skated. But they need something that's more of a standout to push through the crowded U.S. pairs field.
Carreira/Ponomarenko: I thought this was a well-skated warhorse, but very overscored. The GOE heaped on that dance spin, for example, when the first half was poorly executed and travelled terribly. And just, it didn't give me anything new. If you're going to do a warhorse, you have to give me something new.
Hawayek/Baker: I love this. I love this so much. It gave me chills. That one-foot step sequence at the beginning shows off their skill to perfection. The haunting music is perfect. Their new lifts are amazing. Everything was seamless. Of the free dances I've seen so far this year (which, granted isn't that many) this is far and away my favourite. I agree that compared to Hubbell and Donohue this was criminally underscored.
Hubbell/Donohue: This is easily their best program since the Olympic year. It really showed off their amazing glide and power. Lifts this year looked better, for the most part. The choreography lift at the end was clunky and incredibly overscored. However, head to head with Hawayek/Baker I thought they were on the same level (and that's due to H/B upping their game incredibly this season), with Hawayek and Baker winning the night for me, just by a bit. For me H/B's program is just that little bit more unexpected and magnetic. But ice dance politics and all that...
Pate and Bye: Very committed performance. They got me briefly. At first I thought he actually fell during that "slide", haha. Still some rough bits. I liked the instrumental portion at the end better than Say Something.
McNamara/Spiridonov: When it started all I could think of was Virtue and Moir, lol. But I actually liked this. It needs a few more miles on it, but overall good. I couldn't help but think about how I dislike some of the ugly contortions that seem to be required by the scoring system these days in the lifts.
Cesanek/Yehorov: OK, that was well skated, but... I didn't think Let it Rain went with Take me to Church at all. And while they were giving it their all, I disconnected at the end with all the histrionic arm movements. I get that this song is a scream of pain and anger, but the performance went over the top and lacked sincerity, though there were some choreographic things I did like, such as the trust fall.
Green/Parsons: I love this team. Loved their RD. I did not love this program. First, I'm biased, because I admit I'm not a huge Prince fan. And there were some good choreographic touches in it and it was well-skated. But they need something that's more of a standout to push through the crowded U.S. pairs field.
Carreira/Ponomarenko: I thought this was a well-skated warhorse, but very overscored. The GOE heaped on that dance spin, for example, when the first half was poorly executed and travelled terribly. And just, it didn't give me anything new. If you're going to do a warhorse, you have to give me something new.
Hawayek/Baker: I love this. I love this so much. It gave me chills. That one-foot step sequence at the beginning shows off their skill to perfection. The haunting music is perfect. Their new lifts are amazing. Everything was seamless. Of the free dances I've seen so far this year (which, granted isn't that many) this is far and away my favourite. I agree that compared to Hubbell and Donohue this was criminally underscored.
Hubbell/Donohue: This is easily their best program since the Olympic year. It really showed off their amazing glide and power. Lifts this year looked better, for the most part. The choreography lift at the end was clunky and incredibly overscored. However, head to head with Hawayek/Baker I thought they were on the same level (and that's due to H/B upping their game incredibly this season), with Hawayek and Baker winning the night for me, just by a bit. For me H/B's program is just that little bit more unexpected and magnetic. But ice dance politics and all that...
I'm reminded of hearing Virtue and Moir talk about Olympics 2014 vs. Olympics 2018. In 2014 they just went with Marina's FD choice for them, and while it's a good program, it's not one of their standouts in my opinion (their rhythm dance from that season, on the other hand, is one of the most amazing things I've ever seen). In 2018 they chose Moulin Rouge, even in the face of people telling them it was maybe not such a great decision. But they stuck to their guns and that program is now iconic and they're two time Olympic gold medallists in the individual event.
Sometimes taking advice is a good idea and can save you. Other times, if you feel really strongly about something and believe in it, you have to go for it, no matter what anyone says.
Taking charge of your own career is not a bad thing, especially if you're not happy with where you're going.
Indeed, Hawayek and Baker's FD is a masterpiece. It's sad we won't see a full regular season of it. If there's no worlds this year, I hope they keep it for next season.
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Yes... you got exactly what I was intending.
I'm not saying the skaters should baricade themselves and accept no advice, constructive criticism, or assistance... but I do believe they have to guide the process and take ownership of their programs.
Your example of V/M is a case study.
On choreography... neither of the programs we're discussing looked like a Gadbois program... and that's a good thing, because we'll have a dozen other Gadbois programs. These stand out.
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I give H/D (Madi&Zach) props. They are looking good in both programs, better than they have at the start of their season than they have looked for two seasons in a row in terms of better confidence in better music selection and choreo that shouldn't need a ton of tweaking. Madi I think needs to ditch her RD costume, but other than that, I'm enjoying how they rock both programs. Moir is showing some choreography chops. He gets Madi&Zach's style vibe and huge talent! And that's a good thing. I missed knowing that Moir was the choreographer, so that fact didn't sway my judgement or my enjoyment of watching both of Madi&Zach's performances at SA.
Thanks for pointing out the choreographer credit.I don't care about those V/M stans who kinda seem to have some loose marbles in their OTT, hysterical fandom. Moir is very talented at ice dance and now at ice dance choreography. End of!
Yeah Igor and Marina are somewhat set in their ways, but they are also geniuses in their own separate ways too. After all these years, I'm chill with both of them and their foibles. I appreciate all that they have done for figure skating and especially for ice dance in the U.S.
I'm so stoked for Caroline & Michael. They clearly love what they are doing, and it shows. What a great budding ice dance partnership! I enjoy watching them. Kaitlin & Jean Luc are so lovely together, and they seem to have such fun together. In all their ups-and-downs, they keep their minds on what matters and werk it! Kudos to all the teams! They've handled this current challenge we are all facing so well, as athletes having to adjust on so many levels. Thanks to them for giving us more wonderful memories during this difficult time. And thanks to U.S. figure skating for working hard to make this event happen safely!
I too miss Lorraine with Quinn. Fortunately, I know how to find videos of their best performances. Sadly and happily, nothing remains the same (on the sad end, it was so hard coming to terms with the Nguyen/Kolesnik break-up). I just hope Quinn is happy with his transition from skating competition into a new life. I'm happy for Lorraine that she has found a new partner, which doesn't always happen for skaters who want to continue competing after their partner retires to pursue other goals.
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I'm only JUST getting a chance to watch now and have only watched H/B's FD, but here's the first gut reaction:
They're going to run into the same problems as W/P did during their self-consciously 'arty' years (Four Seasons, This Bitter Earth). It's all nice and it screams, Look at how Arty we are. Aren't you Moved?
Montreal still has yet to give them a program as good as their Detroit FDs.
They're going to run into the same problems as W/P did during their self-consciously 'arty' years (Four Seasons, This Bitter Earth). It's all nice and it screams, Look at how Arty we are. Aren't you Moved?
Montreal still has yet to give them a program as good as their Detroit FDs.
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Now, now, be fair. Talents like Jean-Luc come around so rarely and I've always thought that Kaitlyn is severely undervalued. Montreal has been good for her in a way I'm not sure it's been good for them as a team.
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I wasn't being rude. I think they're both wonderful, but Jean-luc has that "something something", and you can't deny that.
Many of the past and present teams are the same way, one is always better than the other, even just a bit. This was true of V/M, Scott was the slightly better skater/dancer especially towards the end of their career. H/D-Zachary has become the better of the two, the man can move!
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Oh, them's fighten words....lol.
Just kidding. Though we'll have to agree to disagree. I thought W/P's Four Seasons, in particular, was a masterpiece. It remains one of my all-time favourite pieces of ice dance choreography. I also was one of the few that liked This Bitter Earth, though when they performed it they were clearly having problems with speed and technique.
No surprise then, I guess, that I think H/B's FD is the bees knees.
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I know you're not trying to be rude, and I don't mean to be overly hostile in this response, so please don't take it that way but...
Sigh. I am so, so tired of the bias of figure skating fans towards the males in any given partnership. They are all, apparently if you read the commentary on this board from over the years, bright shining lights holding up their lesser-talented women-folk. I know people think they're being objective when they make these criticisms, but I can't help but feel that the women in these partnerships are endlessly criticized for everything from their appearance, to their weight, to their skills, without the least consideration for what they bring to these pairings.
Tessa, Madison, Kaetlyn and the oft-disparaged Gabriella do not get their due. Without them, there would be no partnership, no medals, and no laurels.
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I'm a female former ice dancer and singles skater, now a pro. When I make my statements it has nothing to do with holding up one gender over the other. I look at pure talent and in the men that I mentioned, they stand out and are the better of the two in the dance teams to me. There are some other teams that I prefer to watch the female partner (example C/B's , I prefer to watch Madison Chock). There are also a bunch of teams where they are evenly paired for me: Virtue Moir fit this for me early on in their career, then Scott just started to up his game and stood out more. Carreira/Pono are this way for me now: Pretty even. When McNamara/Carpenter were together it was the same thing.
I don't care the sex of the skater, I care about skills. That is what I judge. So please, let's not turn this into a gender discussion.
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It's all good. Rather ironic that you mention Madison Chock since there is so much criticism of her out there (I love her too, by the way). Like I said, I think your opinions are meant sincerely, it just struck a nerve, when I've seen so much criticism of the amazingly talented women in skating. Thanks for your reply.
