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2020 Skate America: Pairs' SP
- Thread starter gsk8
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Yeah, Chris is part of Alexa & Brandon coaching team. But no coaches in kiss 'n cry during this pandemic obviously. Chris wouldn't necessarily travel to all competitions with them in the future, but he'd probably be at U.S. Nationals, maybe. I think Chris is doing fine. You should check out Alexa's Instagram. Also, TeamTodd&Jenni Instagram for the California pairs crew updates.
Please link to the footage of Ash & Tim jump where points were taken off. I'm gonna bet it was really nitpicky. It boils down to U.S. fed not forgiving them for not coming through when the opportunity was there last season. Plus, there are two great California teams at the top and a very good technically competent team in L/M on the rise, so U.S. fed clearly feel now that they don't need Ash&Tim. The fact that Ash&Tim made the World team in January was to reward them for getting the two spots back for pairs at 2019 Worlds (where they performed strongly, but not without mistakes). Ash & Tim have worked hard on their lifts, but their training suffered when Tim experienced a concussion this summer. Plus, I think it's been challenging for them not having Nina Mozer working with them in person. Ash&TIm used to go to Mozer's pairs camp in Italy every summer. I believe U.S. fed partly invested in Ash&Tim training with Mozer. I don't know to what extent the investment amounted to, but the way Ash&Tim are now being so harshly judged is obviously because U.S. fed feel they don't need them anymore.
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Most of Jessica & Brian's elements looked strong, the fall on the jump was probably nerves but I know they will deliver tomorrow. Spiral was so nice looking with that different leg position, lift looked great and movements felt natural even though it's a hard position, and the twists looked higher and cleaner than the others. Yes, Alexa and Brandon were great but the time for Jessica and Brian to shine is now. Plus, it looks like they can deliver when an increase in technical difficulty is demanded.
On a different note, it seems that USFS is already protecting the new seniors (Lu/Mitrafanov) and dropping Ash and Tim...
On a different note, it seems that USFS is already protecting the new seniors (Lu/Mitrafanov) and dropping Ash and Tim...
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I like your comment. So much of trying to make it and stand out from the pack is about selecting the right music that suits your partnership style vibe and individual personalities. It's like skaters need music and style consultants, especially in pairs.
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Regarding Ashley and TImothy, that's my deduction too, as I mentioned earlier.
Re Jessica & Brian, again I agree with you. They are simply divine on everything, except for lacking confidence on their jumps. They can land their jumps, but they aren't super strong on their jumps, and at times they seem to be a bit jittery going into them. Jessica had nerves, and Brian picked up on it. I detected him speaking to Jessica when they were in their opening pose and the music started. Sometimes she is stronger and lands her jumps, and Brian doesn't. Then when Brian seems to get it together, suddenly Jessica loses her confidence on the jumps. This dynamic happens with a lot of teams: trying to gain confidence on jumps and not worry about your partner landing the jumps so you won't lose concentration yourself.
C/J built their confidence all last season which culminated in a perfect free skate at U.S. Nationals in January with both jump combos aced. They are always exceptional on their other elements. Jessica seems to be off-kilter in the air on some of the throws, but they said in an interview that the throws were the most challenging for them to get technique and rhythm in sync together when they first paired. Whichever way Jessica is positioned in the air, she has seemed to land like a cat every time. So they don't need to mess with whatever's working. As far as their jumps, they need some help from Raf maybe, because the sbs jumps look to be their main weakness. They are world class on all other elements and should compete well, with obvious potential to be on international podiums if they fix their jumps. C/J will be battling Alexa & Brandon for the foreseeable future for the top spot in the U.S. It's great for there to be a lot of good teams pushing each other, so I hope Ash & Tim can take heart and battle back by strengthening their weaknesses.
Tarah & Danny are usually very competitive so I'm not sure what happened to them. A lot of nerves apparently. They fairly much have to be clean to get good scores because they are not a fast team (Tarah needs to improve her blade skills). They have good lifts, but need to work on their 3-twist and on their speed and power. Maybe the disruption in their training and moving to a new coaching environment so abruptly (after Danny had purchased a house in Colorado) has thrown them off a bit, understandably.
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I love Jessica and Brian dearly. They had me at hello. The jumps issue is confounding because they are so effortlessly great at everything else. They had a kind of setback in the second virtual competition where they both faltered on the jumps in the fp. They were clean in the sp on the jumps in both virtual comps to my recollection. Jessica had seemed so steady since they skated clean in the fp at Nationals. But both of them faltering in the fp on sbs jumps for the second virtual comp must have got into their heads
And so the nerves got to them here on their jumps right off the bat, when they'd been so solid in the sp because it's a comfortable program for them since they brought it back from last season. Hopefully, they can re-build their confidence on jumps. It's not a given they will deliver on the jumps tomorrow. But I hope they will. Since the jumps are not their strong suit, when nerves set in, their jumps tend to be hit-and-miss. They need to do whatever they can to get their confidence in a better place because they are capable of landing their jump. The contrast with what they do so easily that's very difficult on all the other elements is crazy. The Eurosport commentators were surprised how well C/J performed everything else. I guess Eurosport guys aren't familiar with just how good Jessica and Brian always are on all their elements except the sbs jumps.
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- The new partnership of K/F was surprisingly good. The twist was better with Chris Knierim but otherwise a strong showing.
- C/J are quality skaters, just the SBS jumps and otherwise they were stellar. When they land their jumps they're going for the US #1 spot.
- L/M are finally shedding off the juniorish vibe, not a big fan of the program but a good skate.
- C/L are seasoned skaters with experience under their belts and it shows, I liked it.
- The magic of Clair de Lune is that I can forget Danny O'Shea's bald head. Unfortunately that magic couldn't make up for the nasty fall.
- I don't know whether to applaud or be confused at a Seimei program without Japanese-themed costumes. Better than doing it half-hazardly, I guess.
- C/J are quality skaters, just the SBS jumps and otherwise they were stellar. When they land their jumps they're going for the US #1 spot.
- L/M are finally shedding off the juniorish vibe, not a big fan of the program but a good skate.
- C/L are seasoned skaters with experience under their belts and it shows, I liked it.
- The magic of Clair de Lune is that I can forget Danny O'Shea's bald head. Unfortunately that magic couldn't make up for the nasty fall.
- I don't know whether to applaud or be confused at a Seimei program without Japanese-themed costumes. Better than doing it half-hazardly, I guess.
Knierim/Frazier were outstanding in their competitive debut. It was a beautiful skate. Alexa looks so happy to be back, and I'm happy for her too as she's my favorite US pair skater and the one I believe has the most raw potential. She has the potential to be better with Brandon than she was with Chris. Chris definitely had many strengths, but being with someone who is so reliable with jumps could make a world of difference for her.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that Alexa & Brandon's twist is already noticeably higher than it was in those virtual skates they did--- it was explosive and beautiful. They mentioned how they had differing technique/timing on certain elements coming into their new partnership, and you can see them working through that, but their elements are already strong and they don't skate like they've only been together for 5 months. Their throw triple loop is as huge as anybody's in the world. They also look more comfortable doing jumps now than they did with their previous partners who were both nervous jumpers.
Calalang/Johnson also seem to be somewhat nervous jumpers. You don't know what they're going to do on the jumps, but then they can make up plenty of points elsewhere, especially on their twist and their lifts, which is why they can surpass Cain/LeDuc with serious mistakes. I do think their throw 3lutz was scored too high and was based more on them being the favorites coming into the event and less on the actual quality of the throw. This is their weakest pair element, if you had to pick a weak one. She doesn't tend to get good flow out of the throws and they don't get good distance. I would give several of their pair elements great GOE, but not the throws.
The throw is also not a strong element for Cain-Gribble/LeDuc. And their twist is relatively weak compared to top competitors. So despite their good qualities, they already start in a hole against the top 2 pairs. She also frequently underrotates jumps, although I thought the downgrade call she received was possibly a mistake from the tech panel. I don't think the judges were being excessively harsh--- if they wanted to do that, they could have given them fewer points on an element like the twist (they had a -2 to +3 range, which is too much). But the judges seemed to score them normally--- it was the tech panel that made the << call instead of <.
I was a little surprised by the scoring of Lu/Mitrofanov though. They have small throws, and a low twist. They did tiny throws back when they were in Juniors, and they are still pretty much of the same quality today. Yet they received a couple +4s. That was extravagant and helped push them ahead of Cain/LeDuc. I'm not sure domestic judging panels always differentiate enough on the pair elements. A throw that travels across the ice shouldn't get the same GOE as one barely getting off the ground. L/M did beautiful jumps today, but their other elements aren't that strong. I don't think the judges are sending a message to C/L as much as C/L's pair elements just aren't that strong either.
Speaking of small throws, Kayne/O'Shea are getting nailed for small throws and twists, whereas in the past, for some reason, these things seemed more overlooked by domestic judges. Small throws are easier to land, but they don't do much good when you get to a top competition and several pairs have big throws and you're trying to stand out among them. Mervin Tran and his new partner also have very small throws.
Overall I thought it was a good US event. It's nice that the top 2 pairs train together in California. It seems it has helped make both of them good. Alexa and Jessica are also very close friends which is nice.
I was pleasantly surprised to see that Alexa & Brandon's twist is already noticeably higher than it was in those virtual skates they did--- it was explosive and beautiful. They mentioned how they had differing technique/timing on certain elements coming into their new partnership, and you can see them working through that, but their elements are already strong and they don't skate like they've only been together for 5 months. Their throw triple loop is as huge as anybody's in the world. They also look more comfortable doing jumps now than they did with their previous partners who were both nervous jumpers.
Calalang/Johnson also seem to be somewhat nervous jumpers. You don't know what they're going to do on the jumps, but then they can make up plenty of points elsewhere, especially on their twist and their lifts, which is why they can surpass Cain/LeDuc with serious mistakes. I do think their throw 3lutz was scored too high and was based more on them being the favorites coming into the event and less on the actual quality of the throw. This is their weakest pair element, if you had to pick a weak one. She doesn't tend to get good flow out of the throws and they don't get good distance. I would give several of their pair elements great GOE, but not the throws.
The throw is also not a strong element for Cain-Gribble/LeDuc. And their twist is relatively weak compared to top competitors. So despite their good qualities, they already start in a hole against the top 2 pairs. She also frequently underrotates jumps, although I thought the downgrade call she received was possibly a mistake from the tech panel. I don't think the judges were being excessively harsh--- if they wanted to do that, they could have given them fewer points on an element like the twist (they had a -2 to +3 range, which is too much). But the judges seemed to score them normally--- it was the tech panel that made the << call instead of <.
I was a little surprised by the scoring of Lu/Mitrofanov though. They have small throws, and a low twist. They did tiny throws back when they were in Juniors, and they are still pretty much of the same quality today. Yet they received a couple +4s. That was extravagant and helped push them ahead of Cain/LeDuc. I'm not sure domestic judging panels always differentiate enough on the pair elements. A throw that travels across the ice shouldn't get the same GOE as one barely getting off the ground. L/M did beautiful jumps today, but their other elements aren't that strong. I don't think the judges are sending a message to C/L as much as C/L's pair elements just aren't that strong either.
Speaking of small throws, Kayne/O'Shea are getting nailed for small throws and twists, whereas in the past, for some reason, these things seemed more overlooked by domestic judges. Small throws are easier to land, but they don't do much good when you get to a top competition and several pairs have big throws and you're trying to stand out among them. Mervin Tran and his new partner also have very small throws.
Overall I thought it was a good US event. It's nice that the top 2 pairs train together in California. It seems it has helped make both of them good. Alexa and Jessica are also very close friends which is nice.
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Well, I've just watched the pairs at Skate America. Here's my short review.
The event got off to a good start. I really enjoyed Alexa and Brandon's skate. They looked so good together, and they also exude joy. To me that last - being joyful - is always very important. The only problem was that the next three skates were such a bummer after that excellent start of the event. I had never seen Emily and Spencer before, and their outing today made me feel I hadn't missed much in that. Olivia and Mervin were a little better than the former couple, but I've seen them do better last season. Anna and Evgeni really had an awful skate. I felt sorry for them, but that thought obviously couldn't make the skate any better. Matters improved during the second batch of couples. I enjoyed watching Audrey and Misha, although they still skate a bit juniorish. Nothing wrong with that, but I tend to like a bit more maturity better. Jessica and Brian are a great pairing, and they're so beautiful to watch. I did think the judges were a bit generous because there was a fall after all. However, the quality skating of the whole programme is undeniable. I really loved watching Ashley and Tim, and felt they got too low scores for what they showed. I like their lines, they're so beautifully synchronised and to me their not so big height difference is a plus (I know not everyone agrees on that with me). The throw had a two footed landing, but that was their only mistake. Also, I loved their costumes. Tarah and Danny did not do well. It's not just the jumps that are lacking, it's as if they made a wrong music choice too. I hope they can improve on this during the FS. I am looking forward to the Free Skate in any case.
The event got off to a good start. I really enjoyed Alexa and Brandon's skate. They looked so good together, and they also exude joy. To me that last - being joyful - is always very important. The only problem was that the next three skates were such a bummer after that excellent start of the event. I had never seen Emily and Spencer before, and their outing today made me feel I hadn't missed much in that. Olivia and Mervin were a little better than the former couple, but I've seen them do better last season. Anna and Evgeni really had an awful skate. I felt sorry for them, but that thought obviously couldn't make the skate any better. Matters improved during the second batch of couples. I enjoyed watching Audrey and Misha, although they still skate a bit juniorish. Nothing wrong with that, but I tend to like a bit more maturity better. Jessica and Brian are a great pairing, and they're so beautiful to watch. I did think the judges were a bit generous because there was a fall after all. However, the quality skating of the whole programme is undeniable. I really loved watching Ashley and Tim, and felt they got too low scores for what they showed. I like their lines, they're so beautifully synchronised and to me their not so big height difference is a plus (I know not everyone agrees on that with me). The throw had a two footed landing, but that was their only mistake. Also, I loved their costumes. Tarah and Danny did not do well. It's not just the jumps that are lacking, it's as if they made a wrong music choice too. I hope they can improve on this during the FS. I am looking forward to the Free Skate in any case.
Funny you should say that - when I watch these two, I'm struck by the lack of connection between them. He is a beautiful skater (and so is she, but I always tend to watch what he's doing because he's so balletic), but he lifts her up like an object, not a person, in a very matter-of-fact, workaday way. They're not a good match, sadly, in my opinion.
I disagree. I'm not saying the technical controller was wrong, but from the camera angle available to viewers, it looks to be between a quarter and half. https://youtu.be/u6D1p3v4x1o?t=89
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Well this entire pairs short minus 1 team was a complete disaster. So much disconnection and so many mistakes. geeze!!!
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