2023 Russian Junior Nationals - Day 2 | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2023 Russian Junior Nationals - Day 2

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Plushenko has just blamed the judges and said there will be country changes if it continues like it. So I don't think there will be any content changes. :shrug:
Honestly, this just reads like he's trying to create a way for his skaters to change feds and it being "justified".🤔
 

Caliban

On the Ice
Joined
Aug 16, 2022
I will communicate upon arrival with the Ministry of Sports, with the Russian Olympic Committee, with Vladimir Vladimirovich Putin - Plush is simply drunk again
 

Remilia

On the Ice
Joined
Feb 14, 2018
I mean, I'm pretty sure there's no way the rusfed would willingly let his top skaters go, but, well, that's probably not a discussion for this thread.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Eh, I wouldn't say it's an AoP issue. Sofia Muravieva doesn't really crumble under pressure, and Nikita Sarnovskiy also did very well under pressure today. Though of course, all coaching teams should work with sports psychologists, even if their skaters don't crumble under pressure.

Nika has unfortunately had competition nerve issues under all coaches she's been training under, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the pressure on her came from her own mother.
As for Sofia Titova, ever since she added Ultra-Cs, she's been inconsistent. I believe she is too ambitious and driven, and that leads to her putting too much pressure on herself. Plus, this was her best Free skate ever, despite there probably having been a lot of pressure on her to "prove her worth", it's just that her SP mistake was very costly.


Plushenko's skaters have never won a major title (unless you count the Cup stages?), but the last time a non-Tutberidze skater won a National title was 2014/15 in Seniors (Elena Radionova).
Maybe crumbling isn't the right word but they are more than capable to get better result but always do some costly mistake. Muravieva could have medaled at senior nats and gotten at least silver at junior nats. I won't even talk about Kostornaya and Trusova under Plushy

True that he didn't win a big title yet in ladies, despite the talents he had/has. But at least he won something internationally. 2 JGPs i think.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Maybe crumbling isn't the right word but they are more than capable to get better result but always do some costly mistake. Muravieva could have medaled at senior nats and gotten at least silver at junior nats. I won't even talk about Kostornaya and Trusova under Plushy

True that he didn't win a big title yet in ladies, despite the talents he had/has. But at least he won something internationally. 2 JGPs i think.

Could that be because they don't do repeat and repeat and repeat as much as for instance the Eteris?
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
TES drops:
Zhilina 3Lz+3T<, CCoSp3V(nS)
Gorbacheva FCCoSp4V(nC)
Titova 4S<, 3Lze
Ponteleenko 4T<, 3Lze, 3Lze+2A
Pleskacheva 3Lz!+3T, 3Lz!+2A
Kulikova 3Fe<
Yurova 3Fe, 3Lz+1Eu+3Sq
Agaeva 3Lo<, 3F!, 2A+3Tq
Shcherbinina 3F!, 3Lz<<
Khusnutdinova 3F!<, 3Lzq+3T<

Not surprised to see Labutina 5th in the free. I expected something like this after last stage.
They lowballed Labutina in the short-IMO-for example, the 3L3T is one of the best I've ever seen-both jumps equal speed, skimming the first jump for distance and flow, the second jump seamless from the first. Incredible technique that is very difficult, and rare to see. Most skater make the first jump too high and the second jump takes off at a standstill. (Big jumpers like Veronika, Amber Glenn etc, often have problems with the combo just because they make the first jump too high) Labutina's FS was scored more fairly, even though I've seen her skate better in the grand prixs.
Every young lady brought their best or near best today-when you have 18 girls pretty much at the same level, quads/3A makes the difference. At least in Russia.
 

katymay

Medalist
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Could that be because they don't do repeat and repeat and repeat as much as for instance the Eteris?
Could also be that they take time out from consistent training to appear in Plushy's never ending shows. This year it seems as if there has been one show after another.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
Could that be because they don't do repeat and repeat and repeat as much as for instance the Eteris?
That's what you think?🤣🤣🤣

You probably think i'm an Eteri apologist and that other coaches don't have her methods. That's why you wrote this. Good for you. I would like to live in that dream too.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
That's what you think?🤣🤣🤣

I have no idea. It was an honest question. I hardly follow the Russian girls and have only read interviews which imply that it's one of the basics of Tutberidze to repeat from start to finish again and again, while Plushenko was said to train more the Mishin way which includes less repetitions and training time in comparison. But I really have no insight, that's why I was asking.
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
I have no idea. It was an honest question. I hardly follow the Russian girls and have only read interviews which imply that it's one of the basics of Tutberidze to repeat from start to finish again and again, while Plushenko was said to train more the Mishin way which includes less repetitions and training time in comparison. But I really have no insight, that's why I was asking.
Looking closely, he uses the same business plan than Eteri for his group of skaters. He has his own version of Danill (that young coach whose i forget the name). He suddenly got serial quadsters, trixelers after Rozanov joined him. Rozanov who learned from Dudakov and Eteri. Do you think that Zhilina and Titova attempt that kind of layout by having half of the training time of Krustalni's skaters? They are attempting 4 ultra-C in the free. They are 14yo.
 

icewhite

Record Breaker
Joined
Dec 7, 2022
Looking closely, he uses the same business plan than Eteri for his group of skaters. He has his own version of Danill (that young coach whose i forget the name). He suddenly got serial quadsters, trixelers after Rozanov joined him. Rozanov who learned from Dudakov and Eteri. Do you think that Zhilina and Titova attempt that kind of layout by having half of the training time of Krustalni's skaters? They are attempting 4 ultra-C in the free. They are 14yo.

Okay.
 

Jontor

Medalist
Joined
Jan 18, 2018
Country
Sweden
Just catching up on the junior men and women. I haven't followed anything of the junior RC this season so there was quite a few new names and surprises in there for me.

The 2 little boys at the top were just amazing! Don't think I've seen anything from them before. But what a future these two might have! Stay healthy little guys - don't become a new Samsonov.

The girls. Just WOW! Many new names here and I think Russia could easily put in another 18 girls that can skate a clean 7 triple program. So many potential new stars.

Titova - was a huge disappointment. I always liked her personality but her skating has become ugly. Every jump was eeked out and I thought she would fall every time. And her PCS score was way too high imo.

Zhilina - has grown up a bit and has grown artistically too. But she still feels cold. Even though she is technically very good there is no soul in there.

Gordeeva was new to me. Just wow! But that goes for so many other new girls that were amazing.

Gorbacheva - her winning was just AMAZING! I have always been a fan of her and she has always been criminally underscored. She also had some injuries before? I was a bit worried when she only went for one 4S, I thought it might not be enough. But she was just flawless. A perfect skate and well deserved gold. And she seems to be such a sweet little girl.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Looking closely, he uses the same business plan than Eteri for his group of skaters. He has his own version of Danill (that young coach whose i forget the name). He suddenly got serial quadsters, trixelers after Rozanov joined him. Rozanov who learned from Dudakov and Eteri. Do you think that Zhilina and Titova attempt that kind of layout by having half of the training time of Krustalni's skaters? They are attempting 4 ultra-C in the free. They are 14yo.
One huge difference I noticed between the two schools is the fact that Plushenko is personally involved in training multiple different groups of (almost) equal importance (Mikhailov/Alekseev and Abt/Zakharov), whereas Eteri seems to mostly only personally work with the main group of skaters, while her assistant coaches (including Dudakov) work with the other skaters.

Independent of your comment, I honestly think people are severely overestimating Rozanov's impact, and I think that was even already the case at Team Tut. Sure, he is credited as having taught Alena and Sofia Akatieva (I think?) her 3A, but if I remember right, it was Dudakov who worked with Anya and Sasha on their quads. And tbh, Rozanov has not really had any success since leaving Team Tut, which one could have kind of expected if he was as much of a coaching talent as he was described as.

I do completely agree that they likely have similarly high workloads and training times under Team Tut. It would be interesting to find out if the focus of training is different (for example ratio of on-ice and off-ice training which could definitely affect consistency) 🤔.
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
I mean, I'm pretty sure there's no way the rusfed would willingly let his top skaters go, but, well, that's probably not a discussion for this thread.
Apart from those who have competed internationally (Mura, Nika and Kirill), there wouldn't be much they could do. Apart from inofficial avenues of course (Plushenko's shows are heavily state-sponsored and I'm sure he would like to not lose funding)
 

Jumping_Bean

Record Breaker
Joined
Jan 17, 2022
Maybe crumbling isn't the right word but they are more than capable to get better result but always do some costly mistake. Muravieva could have medaled at senior nats and gotten at least silver at junior nats. I won't even talk about Kostornaya and Trusova under Plushy

True that he didn't win a big title yet in ladies, despite the talents he had/has. But at least he won something internationally. 2 JGPs i think.
Yep, his skaters did get a few international JGP wins (4, one each for Nika, Mura, Kirill and Anastasia Tarakanova). Oh, and a few Novice National titles (mostly Sofia Titova).

The thing about all of his skaters is that they are inconsistent overall and make significant mistakes even at low-pressure competitions (Sofia Muravieva, for example, has only managed to do a single clean (i.e. no step-outs, no falls and no negative GOEs) 2x 3A Free skates. But yes, they do indeed seem to make more, or more costly, mistakes at high-pressure competitions (Sofia Muravieva has only fallen on a 3A once in competition, and that was at Rus Nats this season + plus the uncharacteristic fall on the step sequence).
 

yume

🍉
Record Breaker
Joined
Mar 11, 2016
One huge difference I noticed between the two schools is the fact that Plushenko is personally involved in training multiple different groups of (almost) equal importance (Mikhailov/Alekseev and Abt/Zakharov), whereas Eteri seems to mostly only personally work with the main group of skaters, while her assistant coaches (including Dudakov) work with the other skaters.

Independent of your comment, I honestly think people are severely overestimating Rozanov's impact, and I think that was even already the case at Team Tut. Sure, he is credited as having taught Alena and Sofia Akatieva (I think?) her 3A, but if I remember right, it was Dudakov who worked with Anya and Sasha on their quads. And tbh, Rozanov has not really had any success since leaving Team Tut, which one could have kind of expected if he was as much of a coaching talent as he was described as.

I do completely agree that they likely have similarly high workloads and training times under Team Tut. It would be interesting to find out if the focus of training is different (for example ratio of on-ice and off-ice training which could definitely affect consistency) 🤔.
That's something i didn't notice. And i wonder how much he is personnally involved in their training. I doubt that he's on ice everyday with them given his other activities.

Yes, Eteri leaves the youngests, i think the under 12, to other assistants.

About Rozanov, he was definitely overrated. It was funny to see people underestimate Dudakov by saying that there won't be 3A and quads anymore in Krustalni because Rozanov left. But i think that during his year (or was it two?) at AoP, he definitely gave some informations.

It would be indeed interesting to know more about the amount of off-ice and on-ice time.
 

Flying Feijoa

On the Ice
Joined
Sep 22, 2019
Country
New-Zealand
Wow, junior men surprisingly didn't have major splats :eek:

Of the top two boys Lev's skating is smoother but his jump entries look a bit odd, I'm not sure if it bodes anything for sustainability though cos Grassl manages to jump like this as an adult. Arseny's a bit snappier/bouncier but his programmes suit that quality, hope he manages to buck the Crystal boy trend.

Andrei Kutovoi is starting to remind me of Jason Brown, not just in the artistry/spins vs jumps department but also body structure (long legs, arched back). I wonder if the arch is why both of them struggle with harder jumps.

Timofey Stolyarenko had my favourite SP! Incidentally I was inspired to try his/Valieva's shoulder thing and concluded you need long arms and a small head to manage... I have hypermobile shoulders but my skull won't fit through the arm loop -.-

Maybe if they gave Zhilina better programme music we would see more interpretation? I don't think I've ever heard a worse version of Roxanne... Titova too - AoP seems to have more dubious music choices in general compared to last year.

Twizzles were rough for some of my favourite dance teams 🥲 Better luck in the free guys!
It would be interesting to find out if the focus of training is different (for example ratio of on-ice and off-ice training which could definitely affect consistency) 🤔.
AoP has a bigger proportion of off-ice training I think, judging from a number of interviews (Trusova, Kostornaia, Zinina off top of my head, sorry can't find the links just now). Also social media gives the impression they do a lot of general plyometric/strength exercises (besides the usual off-ice jumps/cardio/dance). They have some interesting gadgets (e.g. a motorised rotating platform, which I think I might have seen once elsewhere but not in Russia) and cross-training activities (e.g. boxing, not sure if it's a regular thing though).
 

anonymoose_au

Insert weird opinion here
Record Breaker
Joined
Feb 22, 2014
Country
Australia
OK catching up!

Vlad and Nastya from the Academy have an Irish program! 🥰 I am here for this business!

But of course the step sequence gets level 2 because I liked it :laugh2:

That was a quality triple twist there, nicely done.

Liza O and Artem - I was unaware Seal had a I Put A Spell on You cover, this amuses me greatly. I'm super happy pairs is working out so well for Liza O!

Liza and Valerie - Geeze that triple twist went WAY off! I gasped! Nice synchronisation on the spin though.

And now I skip ahead to the ladies and hope to heck Sofia T and Nika have fantastic skates!
 
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